Worcestershire Parkway station progress

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is a photo of a Worcestershire CC poster about the new Parkway station I found at Great Malvern.
It uses some of the material from the brochure linked above.
There's obviously a significant local campaign going on.

 

[Noddy]

The council are pressing ahead...

http://m.worcesternews.co.uk/news/1...to_get_Worcestershire_Parkway_off_the_ground/

A LOAN of £14 million is to be taken out to get Worcestershire's parkway rail station off the ground - bringing the long-awaited project closer to fruition.

Your Worcester News can reveal how Worcestershire County Council has agreed to endorse a financial package to get the station up and running by May 2017.

During a debate at County Hall, the Conservative leadership also insisted it would not allow any delays over the project, insisting private landowners cannot "derail" it.

We can reveal:

• -The total construction costs have been firmed up at £21.9 million, which leaves £14.4 million needing to be found taking into account the £7.5 million already confirmed by central Government
• In a meeting on Thursday councillors unanimously agreed a loan could be taken out, probably via the Government-backed Public Works Loans Board, which offers cash at virtually rock-bottom interest rates
• A 25-year forecast has been drawn up revealing how over that period, taking into account maintenance, admin, debt repayments and other bills, the station will cost £47 million
• The council says it aims to ultimately make parkway break-even, with car parking charges and "train operator access fees", a commercial levy to use the station, ensuring a balance sheet of zero by 2042
• he council aims to secure train operator fees of £35.8 million by then and £4 million in parking charges It comes amid a private wrangle with Norton Parkway Developments Ltd, which controls the land and wants to build it privately.

 

[Class 170101]

Will be interesting to see if the operators will serve the station mind given the fees.

 

[40907]

New station at Norton, on the outskirts of Worcester.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34049248

Work can begin on a £22m rail station in Worcestershire after planning permission was granted.


The Worcestershire Parkway, near junction 7 of the M5 for Worcester, will join the Cotswolds and Birmingham to Bristol lines.


Construction of the station, near Norton, will now start in spring, the county council said.


The station, Worcester's third, is due to open to the first passengers in autumn 2017.


Work on the station, will have a single platform on the Cotswold Line and two on the Birmingham to Bristol Line, is being paid for by both the county council and the Worcestershire Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP)..

 

[TheNewNo2]

Seems like a good plan, though I'd hope they put in passive provision for a second platform on the Cotswold Line, should that ever be doubled.

 

[Unixman]

Seems like a good plan, though I'd hope they put in passive provision for a second platform on the Cotswold Line, should that ever be doubled.

They have. I have had reassurance from one of my councillors about that.

 

[jimm]

Things are rather less cut and dried than that BBC story might suggest:

From Monday's Worcester News

A WORCESTER businessman has threatened to take legal action against Worcestershire County Council if it refuses to enter into an agreement over the long-awaited Norton Parkway train station.

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news...ens_legal_action_over_Norton_Parkway_station/

And the paper's report on the subsequent council planning meeting also points out a number of fairly fundamental issues have yet to be settled, such as land ownership - never mind that the odds of finding a seat on any XC train calling there will be near zero, given the rolling stock in use on both the Bristol and Cardiff routes and current passenger loadings. Oh, and the ever-growing budget, which I think started as something like £7m, and the blithe assurances that Shrub Hill station will remain open - even though one of the council's other pet policies is faster trains to London, although they would then have to make three stops in the space of four miles to serve a city with a population under 100,000....

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/13624858.Norton_Parkway_station_given_the_green_light/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And the fun continues...

A PRIVATE company embroiled in a battle over Worcestershire Parkway has demanded fresh talks within "one week" over the £22 million project - insisting it will not back down over a legal battle.

Norton Parkway Developments, which owns the lucrative rights to the land, told your Worcester News it was willing to fight a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) all the way to court if needed.

It has led to a firm response at Worcestershire County Council, with the leader saying he will not accept any delays due to a firm seeking "financial gain".

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news..._demands_meeting_within__quot_one_week_quot_/

 

[SephenWorceste]

I notice the station is Worcestershire Parkway. Presumably not part of Worcester Stations. If Cross Country do decide to stop there I wonder what the fare to Birmingham will be compared to London Midland who operate regularly from Foregate Street and Shrubhill. That could be a deciding factor for Worcester commuters once you add the parking charges.

 

[The Planner]

Good luck fitting on an hourly Cardiff Nottingham.

 

[Llanigraham]

Having lived in Worcester for nearly 30 years, I was interested to see who the "business man" was:
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news...ens_legal_action_over_Norton_Parkway_station/

There is "history" there!

 

[jimm]

I notice the station is Worcestershire Parkway. Presumably not part of Worcester Stations. If Cross Country do decide to stop there I wonder what the fare to Birmingham will be compared to London Midland who operate regularly from Foregate Street and Shrubhill. That could be a deciding factor for Worcester commuters once you add the parking charges.

I doubt there is any chance whatever of the Parkway being included in Worcester stations group. The fares will have to be set punitively high to deter all the Birmingham-bound commuters and keep them on LM, even though the council seems happy to let them get the impression this station will offer them some super-fast journey option, never mind that unless XC gets some magic boost to its fleet, the trains to carry them don't exist, and Bristol/West Country-North of England services won't call, which makes a complete mockery of the idea that it will offer improved connectivity. FGW's submission to the planning meeting was pretty lukewarm, saying that it was "important' for there to be two platforms on the Cotswold Line from the start, along with more double track through the area.

 

[Envoy]

It surely would not go down well in Gloucester, Newport & Cardiff if they found that their 1 train per hour to /from Birmingham (& Nottingham) was to be slowed down with an additional stop at which even more people would load into a 2 or 3 coach Turbostar that was already rammed.

It seems to be that one of the main problems facing this area is the poor rail connectivity between Kidderminster, Droitwich, Worcester and the lines going to Bristol (& points SW) as well as south Wales. As has been mentioned earlier, extending the south Wales to Cheltenham service to Worcester would go some way to addressing the issue but I would extending it even further to include Droitwich & Kidderminster. Hence, we now have a direct service to Cardiff without slowing down the XC service whilst, with careful timing, passengers could change at Cheltenham for the XC services to and from Bristol & the south west.

At present, the Cheltenham to south Wales trains, usually terminate at Maesteg as they are also stoppers between Cardiff & Bridgend. With electrification in south Wales, it would surely mean that the Cardiff to Maesteg leg will go electric and this could surely be combined with the Ebbw Vale line to form a Maesteg > Cardiff > Ebbw Vale electric service? That being so, then Cardiff Central would surely be the terminus for the diesel powered trains on a route going to Worcester, Droitwich & Kidderminster.

To increase CC stock, surely it would be best to put new electric trains on the Birmingham to Scotland West Coast route and switch these Voyagers from Virgin to CC? Why give priority to replacing electric trains on the East Coast Mainline with the new Hitachi Trains? Surely, the priority must be to free up the Voyagers currently running under wires on the west coast route in view of the desperate shortage of diesel trains?

 

[jimm]

It surely would not go down well in Gloucester, Newport & Cardiff if they found that their 1 train per hour to /from Birmingham (& Nottingham) was to be slowed down with an additional stop at which even more people would load into a 2 or 3 coach Turbostar that was already rammed.

It seems to be that one of the main problems facing this area is the poor rail connectivity between Kidderminster, Droitwich, Worcester and the lines going to Bristol (& points SW) as well as south Wales. As has been mentioned earlier, extending the south Wales to Cheltenham service to Worcester would go some way to addressing the issue but I would extending it even further to include Droitwich & Kidderminster. Hence, we now have a direct service to Cardiff without slowing down the XC service whilst, with careful timing, passengers could change at Cheltenham for the XC services to and from Bristol & the south west.

At present, the Cheltenham to south Wales trains, usually terminate at Maesteg as they are also stoppers between Cardiff & Bridgend. With electrification in south Wales, it would surely mean that the Cardiff to Maesteg leg will go electric and this could surely be combined with the Ebbw Vale line to form a Maesteg > Cardiff > Ebbw Vale electric service? That being so, then Cardiff Central would surely be the terminus for the diesel powered trains on a route going to Worcester, Droitwich & Kidderminster.

To increase CC stock, surely it would be best to put new electric trains on the Birmingham to Scotland West Coast route and switch these Voyagers from Virgin to CC? Why give priority to replacing electric trains on the East Coast Mainline with the new Hitachi Trains? Surely, the priority must be to free up the Voyagers currently running under wires on the west coast route in view of the desperate shortage of diesel trains?

It wouldn't go down well with XC either. They - and FGW - have been lukewarm on this wheeze for a long time. Even the 'offer' of Cardiff services stopping seems to have been pretty much prised out of them. Remember this is the company that stopped running these services via Shrub Hill in the first place when it took over from Central Trains.

I doubt that DfT or WAG would countenance extending the Cardiff-Cheltneham trains further north, even before you come up against revenue abstraction issues, and finding rolling stock to operate it. And why would you go to Kidderminster? As an end point it makes no sense whatever, I'm afraid. Go to Birmingham or don't bother.

In any case, the greater demand from Worcester is likely to be towards Bristol, which would be best served by a long-overdue improvements to the FGW service, so things like being able to commute between Worcester and Cheltenham or Gloucester in the morning became possible, and making good connections with LM's Birmingham services. Plus it serves the centre of the city, not a car park four miles away.

If you want to best serve Worcestershire generally, using this station, which is what the county council claims, then what it requires is resignalling and track renewals in the heart of Worcester to reinstate all the capacity and flexibility lost in 1971, in conjunction with further redoubling of the Cotswold Line, so that trains from the north or west can run though the city and out the other side to turn round either at the Parkway - though that would probably require some serious civil engineering to provide a bay platform due to the elevated location - or Evesham/Honeybourne. But the council seems quite happy to just let people drive there, but as anyone knows, Worcester's roads, even with recent tinkering on the inadequate southern bypass (another flawed product from the geniuses at county hall), are not up to the job.

XC will, of course, need more rolling stock but it won't be coming from Virgin in a hurry. Since the combination of Birmingham-Scotland trains with the Wolverhampton-London service Pendolinos do much of that work but with the operation of extra services to Chester, plus Shrewsbury and Blackpool, many of their Voyagers are busy working to places away from the wires. Any new model Pendolino is several years away and the IEP is not suitable for the WCML as it doesn't tilt, never mind that replacing HSTs nearing their 40th birthday looks like a priority to me, even if some seem to think they will just go on forever.

 

[Class 170101]

I doubt that DfT or WAG would countenance extending the Cardiff-Cheltneham trains further north, even before you come up against revenue abstraction issues, and finding rolling stock to operate it. And why would you go to Kidderminster? As an end point it makes no sense whatever, I'm afraid. Go to Birmingham or don't bother.

Kidderminster cannot be reached from Worcester Parkway low level - so it has to be New Street. Perhaps a joint XC and ATW service between New Street and Maestag?

In any case, the greater demand from Worcester is likely to be towards Bristol, which would be best served by a long-overdue improvements to the FGW service, so things like being able to commute between Worcester and Cheltenham or Gloucester in the morning became possible, and making good connections with LM's Birmingham services. Plus it serves the centre of the city, not a car park four miles away.

There is an argument for extending London to Cheltenham services to Worcester but this would be to the Town centre stations and not the Parkway Station. Currently however I think only Worcester sign both the route and the traction as this wasn't done (except for the peaks) during the Cotswold re-doubling closure.

XC will, of course, need more rolling stock but it won't be coming from Virgin in a hurry. Since the combination of Birmingham-Scotland trains with the Wolverhampton-London service Pendolinos do much of that work but with the operation of extra services to Chester, plus Shrewsbury and Blackpool, many of their Voyagers are busy working to places away from the wires. Any new model Pendolino is several years away and the IEP is not suitable for the WCML as it doesn't tilt, never mind that replacing HSTs nearing their 40th birthday looks like a priority to me, even if some seem to think they will just go on forever.

Unlikely to be any new Rolling Stock built and leased unless there is a new long term franchise for XC. HSTs may well have to suffice for the time being despite their age. That being said Scotrail think it will work so make of it what you will.

 

[SephenWorceste]

To summarise what may happen. First Great Western Hereford to London services may stop at Worcestershire Parkway. That will either increase journey times or alternatively cause them to remove other stops at say Shrub Hill or Pershore. If Cross Country do stop at Worcestershire Parkway on the way to Birmingham then the trains will be too packed to get on and the fares so high (comparatively) you would not want to. Is this station just an expensive White Elephant.

 

[Llanigraham]

I'm getting a sense of deja-vu with some of the points raised in the last couple of posts and the situation years ago with Bristol Parkway.

 

[jimm]

Kidderminster cannot be reached from Worcester Parkway low level - so it has to be New Street. Perhaps a joint XC and ATW service between New Street and Maestag?

Pretty much nowhere will be reached from Worcestershire Parkway, except by car, and that, as I said is a pretty big problem with the whole concept. The rail services, especially to and from the south, will be little better than what is already available anyway on the less than fab FGW Gloucester/Bristol service.

There is an argument for extending London to Cheltenham services to Worcester but this would be to the Town centre stations and not the Parkway Station. Currently however I think only Worcester sign both the route and the traction as this wasn't done (except for the peaks) during the Cotswold re-doubling closure.

Two Cheltenham-Paddington trains already start at Worcester each morning and one evening train does the return run. There has been talk of making this a more frequent service but I doubt the current 800 order allows enough stock for this anyway, given the extra time needed to get to Worcester and back - and frankly a better Worcester-Bristol service is far more urgently needed, timed to make slick same-platform connections at Cheltenham, which would be far easier to manage if there was a regular hourly frequency on both routes. IEP will deliver that on the London service and it is to be hoped the influx of 16xs will do the same for the Bristol-Worcester/Malvern service. Note that FGW only has guards and catering staff based at Worcester. The drivers work in and out from other depots, with taxis needed at the start and end of the day.

To summarise what may happen. First Great Western Hereford to London services may stop at Worcestershire Parkway. That will either increase journey times or alternatively cause them to remove other stops at say Shrub Hill or Pershore. If Cross Country do stop at Worcestershire Parkway on the way to Birmingham then the trains will be too packed to get on and the fares so high (comparatively) you would not want to. Is this station just an expensive White Elephant.

Seems a fair summary. It is the council's pet project, being pushed through in isolation from all other considerations, not least the indifference of the rail industry, which knows there are plenty of more pressing things that need to be done around Worcester that would arguably deliver most of the benefits claimed for this station and more besides.

 

[SephenWorceste]

> Pretty much nowhere will be reached from Worcestershire Parkway, except by car, and that, as I said is a pretty big problem with the whole concept. The rail services, especially to and from the south, will be little better than what is already available anyway on the less than fab FGW Gloucester/Bristol service.

I too would like to see an improvement on the Bristol service. It would make southbound Cross Country train more accessible from Cheltenham.

 

[edwin_m]

While there is probably merit in running more trains between Shrub Hill and Cheltenham (and beyond in both directions) they won't be able to serve the Parkway station. And it wouldn't be cost-effective to strengthen XC's services whether Cardiff-Nottingham or the longer-distance Voyagers just for the half an hour or so of their long journeys that is between the Parkway and New Street. So yes the lower level looks something of a white elephant. There may be some merit in improving drive-up access to the Cotwold line, but that has several existing stations in smaller settlements which might be easier to develop in this role without going to the trouble of building a new one.

It would be better to locate it a few hundred metres further west where it could still be served by the Cotswold line and by Worcester-Cheltenham trains but not by XC. This would probably also be cheaper as it would only need two platforms on one level.

 

[Bevan Price]

It wouldn't go down well with XC either. They - and FGW - have been lukewarm on this wheeze for a long time. Even the 'offer' of Cardiff services stopping seems to have been pretty much prised out of them. Remember this is the company that stopped running these services via Shrub Hill in the first place when it took over from Central Trains.

I doubt that DfT or WAG would countenance extending the Cardiff-Cheltneham trains further north, even before you come up against revenue abstraction issues, and finding rolling stock to operate it. And why would you go to Kidderminster? As an end point it makes no sense whatever, I'm afraid. Go to Birmingham or don't bother.

In any case, the greater demand from Worcester is likely to be towards Bristol, which would be best served by a long-overdue improvements to the FGW service, so things like being able to commute between Worcester and Cheltenham or Gloucester in the morning became possible, and making good connections with LM's Birmingham services. Plus it serves the centre of the city, not a car park four miles away.
.

And those comments illustrate perfectly the stupidity of the fragmented railway & franchise system. Innovation is stifled - no- "we can't do that" - "it is in somebody else's franchise area."

If we still had a unified system, it would be a simple matter to extend some of the Birmingham - Kidderminster - Worcester services to (for example) Cheltenham, Cardiff or Bristol to provide through services.

 

[Class 170101]

If we still had a unified system, it would be a simple matter to extend some of the Birmingham - Kidderminster - Worcester services to (for example) Cheltenham, Cardiff or Bristol to provide through services.

Might interest you - looks like LM do have access rights as far as Gloucester.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P70391/2015/09/04/advanced

 

[Envoy]

I thought that the Welsh Government (WAG) were all in favour of Welsh based trains making journeys well into England in order to boost connectivity / tourism. The question is, are they prepared to deal with complaints & queries about such services from English residents or will they just say, "you are a foreigner & nothing to do with us"? In they do in fact take that point of view, then clearly a service such as Cardiff> Gloucester > Cheltenham > Worcester > Droitwich > Kidderminster > B'ham could perhaps be run by Cross Country or London Midland? (Note that cross border trains are already run by XC, FGW as well as Virgin & ATW).

It surely would be more use to the people of Wales if a direct service operated to Worcester, Droitwich & Kidderminster - thus encouraging tourism in both directions whereas the Parkway station would be pretty well useless to the people of Wales. Indeed, it would be a hindrance by slowing down the Cardiff to Nottingham trains on a fast section of track.

I also wonder about the situation at Bristol Parkway and the schedules once the new electric services start on Great Western? If the direct Cardiff > Nottingham trains become slower, would it not induce a switch of south Wales passengers to use the Hitachi's to Bristol Parkway and then the XC's on that route? If the Hitachi's (or whatever they want to call them), don't stop at Bristol Parkway when on the Swansea run, then that would surely mean more south Wales passengers using the Cardiff > Nottinghams?

Some of the people on this forum go on about what company/drivers sign for what route. Surely, anything is possible in the future? I remember when Virgin had the Voyagers and I travelled on one which had come from Edinburgh and was going to Cardiff on the route via Gloucester. At that time, Central and what became ATW were also operating Birmingham to Cardiff services. One Virgin Voyager even went Leeds > Swansea and returned as Swansea > Newcastle > Edinburgh.

I can't see much point in direct services from south Wales to Scotland via the Midlands as it is a longer route than going via the Marches & Crewe. However, a direct service from south Wales to Newcastle would be useful. The only Voyager that 'visits' Cardiff is an XC service that goes to/from Manchester via Bristol ™ once a day. At least, if it went to/from Newcastle it would offer a different destination as Cardiff has Manchester trains every hour using the shorter Marches route.

I can't imagine the people of Hereford would be too happy if they found out that their direct trains to London were going to be 'slowed down' by the addition of a Worcester Parkway stop. Hereford must be one of the most isolated cities in southern England.

 

[NSEFAN]

Some of the people on this forum go on about what company/drivers sign for what route. Surely, anything is possible in the future?

As a general point regarding the railway, a lot of things are possible but if they're not easy & cheap to implement then they're definitely not probable.

 

[PHILIPE]

And those comments illustrate perfectly the stupidity of the fragmented railway & franchise system. Innovation is stifled - no- "we can't do that" - "it is in somebody else's franchise area."

If we still had a unified system, it would be a simple matter to extend some of the Birmingham - Kidderminster - Worcester services to (for example) Cheltenham, Cardiff or Bristol to provide through services.

A few years ago LM ran a shuttle between Worcester and Gloucester at the hour when FGW didn't operate. It was withdrawn due lack of support.

 

[jimm]

Might interest you - looks like LM do have access rights as far as Gloucester.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P70391/2015/09/04/advanced

They experimented briefly with a Worcester-Gloucester service, supposedly to complement the FGW one, but it did nothing to plug the hole in the morning peak period (the stock being used was up in the West Midlands at that time of day) and pathing issues meant the northbound trains ran 20 minutes apart from an FGW one, rather than them being spread out to give a regular interval.

I thought that the Welsh Government (WAG) were all in favour of Welsh based trains making journeys well into England in order to boost connectivity / tourism. The question is, are they prepared to deal with complaints & queries about such services from English residents or will they just say, "you are a foreigner & nothing to do with us"? In they do in fact take that point of view, then clearly a service such as Cardiff> Gloucester > Cheltenham > Worcester > Droitwich > Kidderminster > B'ham could perhaps be run by Cross Country or London Midland? (Note that cross border trains are already run by XC, FGW as well as Virgin & ATW).

It surely would be more use to the people of Wales if a direct service operated to Worcester, Droitwich & Kidderminster - thus encouraging tourism in both directions whereas the Parkway station would be pretty well useless to the people of Wales. Indeed, it would be a hindrance by slowing down the Cardiff to Nottingham trains on a fast section of track.

I also wonder about the situation at Bristol Parkway and the schedules once the new electric services start on Great Western? If the direct Cardiff > Nottingham trains become slower, would it not induce a switch of south Wales passengers to use the Hitachi's to Bristol Parkway and then the XC's on that route? If the Hitachi's (or whatever they want to call them), don't stop at Bristol Parkway when on the Swansea run, then that would surely mean more south Wales passengers using the Cardiff > Nottinghams?

Some of the people on this forum go on about what company/drivers sign for what route. Surely, anything is possible in the future? I remember when Virgin had the Voyagers and I travelled on one which had come from Edinburgh and was going to Cardiff on the route via Gloucester. At that time, Central and what became ATW were also operating Birmingham to Cardiff services. One Virgin Voyager even went Leeds > Swansea and returned as Swansea > Newcastle > Edinburgh.

I can't see much point in direct services from south Wales to Scotland via the Midlands as it is a longer route than going via the Marches & Crewe. However, a direct service from south Wales to Newcastle would be useful. The only Voyager that 'visits' Cardiff is an XC service that goes to/from Manchester via Bristol ™ once a day. At least, if it went to/from Newcastle it would offer a different destination as Cardiff has Manchester trains every hour using the shorter Marches route.

I can't imagine the people of Hereford would be too happy if they found out that their direct trains to London were going to be 'slowed down' by the addition of a Worcester Parkway stop. Hereford must be one of the most isolated cities in southern England.

I'm sure the WAG is all in favour of all kinds of things, but as we have seen recently over changes to the Heart of Wales timetable which affected the timing of a key commuter train into Shrewsbury, people living in England felt their needs were just ignored as they were not the right side of the border.

Why are people obsessed with Kidderminster? People there want to go to Birmingham and London, not Cardiff, there is a time penalty for going from Worcester to Birmingham via Stourbridge and you end up at Snow Hill or Moor Street, which isn't much use if you want to go north or east of Birmingham.

VXC Voyager services to Cardiff ran via Bristol, same as the current sole survivor which you mention, not on the Gloucester and Lydney route, which XC left to Central/Wales & West.

As things stand, this Parkway is fundamentally flawed, because it is a political project, driven by a county council which cares not a jot about the bigger picture issues, such as:

• XC not having the capacity to handle more passengers on either the Cardiff or Bristol route services that pass the site but the council seems completely blind to this
  
• The council refuses to contemplate other options such as looking at what can be done to improve existing services that might deliver similar benefits, not least on the route to Gloucestershire and the opportunities for connections at Cheltenham in particular - or to talk about the potential implications of the Parkway for the future of Shrub Hill station.
  
• It is on a single-line section of the Cotswold Line with existing capacity constraints even before you make stops at this station - hence FGW's comments to the planning committee about needing double track
  
• FGW's London trains from Malvern and Hereford would offer a limited degree of rall-borne connectivity to the Parkway from other parts of Worcestershire but that's it, unless Cotswold Line redoubling is implemented and you extend LM services out from Worcester to either the Parkway or on to Evesham - so the only practical way to get there will be by road on a rather less than fabulous road network, but never mind, people are used to the jams around Worcester anyway...
  
• The council seems to think FGW will cheerfully stop its trains three times in four miles to serve the metropolis of 100,000 people that is Worcester - while at the same time also meeting its demands for a standard two-hour journey time to and from London, plus - and I am not making this up - a number of even faster trains which would only call at Oxford (oh and Moreton-in-Marsh so as not to look utterly selfish, even though this would leave out Evesham, the largest town in the east of, er, Worcestershire). This is the sort of mentality that you are up against here, which is why this project is being bulldozed through, whatever anyone says, - and saddling the county's taxpayers with a £14m loan to repay as well
  
• Worcestershire County Council couldn't care less about Hereford or, as I said, lots of people in its own county. In any case the fastest journey times between Hereford and London are achieved with a change at Newport, not clambering up and down the Malvern and Cotswold hills on a through train, especially if it has to make yet another stop at Worcester in the future.

 

[Envoy]

No jimm - Virgin Voyagers definately used the direct line via Lydney - & I travelled on one that was from Edinburgh to Cardiff. Cardiff had one Virgin Voyager every other hour with about half going via Bristol Parkway and/or Temple Meads. One of these Voyagers even went to Swansea.

Kidderminster matters because the residents have poor links to the south (Cheltenham and beyond). It also has tourist attractions such as the West Midlands Safari Park (nearby) & The Severn Valley Railway. Therefore, if it had better links to/from the south, it would induce more people to travel by train to these attractions. As things stand, they might just as well drive.

 

[The Planner]

Those attractions would only increase weekend punters and not in dramatic amounts to make it worthwhile and surely the point of a safari park is to drive through it?

 

[edwin_m]

Those attractions would only increase weekend punters and not in dramatic amounts to make it worthwhile and surely the point of a safari park is to drive through it?

I imagine the safety case for running a train through it would be pretty interesting.

 

[jimm]

No jimm - Virgin Voyagers definately used the direct line via Lydney - & I travelled on one that was from Edinburgh to Cardiff. Cardiff had one Virgin Voyager every other hour with about half going via Bristol Parkway and/or Temple Meads. One of these Voyagers even went to Swansea.

Kidderminster matters because the residents have poor links to the south (Cheltenham and beyond). It also has tourist attractions such as the West Midlands Safari Park (nearby) & The Severn Valley Railway. Therefore, if it had better links to/from the south, it would induce more people to travel by train to these attractions. As things stand, they might just as well drive.

Sorry but it must have been a diversion - BR had rerouted the South Wales CrossCountry InterCity services away from the Lydney and Chepstow route to run via Bristol Parkway long before Virgin came on the scene, with the Regional Railways Birmingham-Cardiff service, worked by Class 158s, taking over, with that service, of course, initially passing to Central/Wales & Borders post-privatisation.

The BR InterCity network, as of 1993

http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/InterCity mag 93 2.jpg

And this is the Virgin XC Operation Princess network map, from late 2002, clearly showing all its South Wales services going via Bristol http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Virgin lit 122002.jpg

Not many Kidderminster residents want to go south, which is why there isn't a direct service now. Better connections at Worcester with a better Worcester-Bristol service might attract a few more but it simply won't justify a direct service, nor will visitors to the SVR or the Safari Park - which to the best of my knowledge doesn't even contemplate the possibility that anyone would arrive by any means other than a car.

 

[PHILIPE]

Sorry but it must have been a diversion - BR had rerouted the South Wales CrossCountry InterCity services away from the Lydney and Chepstow route to run via Bristol Parkway long before Virgin came on the scene, with the Regional Railways Birmingham-Cardiff service, worked by Class 158s, taking over, with that service, of course, initially passing to Central/Wales & Borders post-privatisation.

The BR InterCity network, as of 1993

http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/InterCity mag 93 2.jpg

And this is the Virgin XC Operation Princess network map, from late 2002, clearly showing all its South Wales services going via Bristol http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Virgin lit 122002.jpg

Not many Kidderminster residents want to go south, which is why there isn't a direct service now. Better connections at Worcester with a better Worcester-Bristol service might attract a few more but it simply won't justify a direct service, nor will visitors to the SVR or the Safari Park - which to the best of my knowledge doesn't even contemplate the possibility that anyone would arrive by any means other than a car.

You're still wrong. A number of XC Voyagers DID travel to and from South Wales via Lydney in Operation Princess Days in 2002/03. I ought to know, as other posters do, because I regularly travelled on a 09 40 ex Cardiff to Aberdeen. Many of them went via Bristol but some DID go via Lydney.