Worrying about Covid while travelling on busy trains during half term.

[duncanp]

T

My interpretation is different as I have read the whole document
It does say 10 days as you correctly state but further down waivers this requirement if one uploads a vaccine passport

Ending quarantine: Quarantine at home may be ended early if proof of recovery, proof
of vaccination or a negative test result is submitted via upload portal of the digital
registration on entry at https://www.einreiseanmeldung.de. The individual link on the
registration confirmation (PDF document) should be used to upload the proof of recovery,
proof of vaccination or a negative test result. Quarantine can be ended in each case from
the time the negative test result is submitted. If you spent time in a high-risk area prior to
entry, the relevant test may not be conducted earlier than five days after entry (test to
release possible from day five following entry). Vaccinated and recovered persons can end
the quarantine from the time when the proof of vaccination or recovery is transmitted via
the entry portal. If the transmission takes place before entry (strongly recommended), no
quarantine is needed.
• Following a stay in an area of variants of concern, the duration of the 14-day quarantine
may not be shortened.

If you read the Foreign Office travel advice for Germany, it seem pretty clear that:-

• If you are fully vaccinated, you can enter Germany without a test beforehand, and without the new for quarantine.
• If you are not fully vaccinated, you can only enter Germany if you satisfy their list of exemptions. It is those people to whom the 10 day quarantine applies.

The following is an extract from the FCO travel advice page

For those individuals eligible to enter Germany who are not fully vaccinated, travel from the UK is generally subject to 10-day quarantine with test and release available after 5 days. Both individuals who can prove recovery from the virus and the fully vaccinated are exempt from quarantine requirements.

 

[yorkie]

Not sure about that - with commuting down, the percentage of children on trains on the way to school will be a much higher percentage in the mornings and afternoons.

It really depends on what trains you get! Some trains could be 90% children but on the vast majority of trains I've been getting, children have been a small percentage.

That said, I've been in close proximity to hundreds of young teenagers in recent months (due to my job) and some of them have tested positive and I've not become ill. Pretty much no-one has been wearing a mask (not a flimsy ineffective one , let alone an effective one) so I must be doing something right, and the vaccines must be working.

 

[morrisobrien]

I would have absolutely no hesitation in travelling on a train which is full and standing, and indeed I've been on quite a few in the past few months...

DITTO.

 

[Butts]

If you read the Foreign Office travel advice for Germany, it seem pretty clear that:-

• If you are fully vaccinated, you can enter Germany without a test beforehand, and without the new for quarantine.
• If you are not fully vaccinated, you can only enter Germany if you satisfy their list of exemptions. It is those people to whom the 10 day quarantine applies.

The following is an extract from the FCO travel advice page

The OP is not paying attention, I was in Germany last weekend returning on Monday.

My NHS Scotland Certificate of Vaccination was checked by the Police prior to Passport Control and bobs you uncle you are in.

Above document was also sufficient to gain entry to any other place/activity requiring proof of vaccination.

 

[Bikeman78]

Not sure about that - with commuting down, the percentage of children on trains on the way to school will be a much higher percentage in the mornings and afternoons.

The 317s on the Hertford and Cambridge trains are awash with kids at school chucking out time. Doesn't really bother me. The yobby behaviour on the Hertford line annoys me far more than Covid. The kids around Bishop's Stortford are far more civilised!

 

[Horizon22]

It really depends on what trains you get! Some trains could be 90% children but on the vast majority of trains I've been getting, children have been a small percentage.

That said, I've been in close proximity to hundreds of young teenagers in recent months (due to my job) and some of them have tested positive and I've not become ill. Pretty much no-one has been wearing a mask (not a flimsy ineffective one , let alone an effective one) so I must be doing something right, and the vaccines must be working.

Oh definitely! Just mentioning that children are a bigger percentage and they're obviously at this time less likely to be vaccinated. The average person might be at extra risk therefore, although a vaccinated person really shouldn't be too worried.

 

[yorkie]

I think the risks of transmission from children is relatively low, given how relatively infrequently adults in close proximity to children have been infected. Of course this is further reduced in a vaccinated individual.

 

[John Luxton]

Today I intended to travel from Worle to Bristol Parkway but aborted my journey at Bristol Temple Meads. This was because the two trains I boarded there were full and standing, offering an ideal covid breeding ground. One of these trains was a Cross-Country and this company is still offering only a half-timetable of trains from Bristol northwards. Nor have they extended the lengths of the trains they do still run. It was obvious with school holidays that this would be a busier week. I appreciate that the railways have probably lost the bigger half of their business but behaving like this is likely to lead to further loss of business.

Once the English mask mandate was over I returned to the railways after something of an absence, not just because of Covid but having turned 60 just before the mask mandate came in I had bought a 3 year Senior rail card.
Since July I have travelled on quite a few local Merseyrail trains, also some London North Western and GWR trains as well as a rail tour. Some have been quite busy.

As well as trains I have been on local buses again some very full.

Completely unmasked and I will also add unvaxed as I do trust my immune system.

It really is safe, stop worrying and start travelling, I think you are one of the victims of the government's Behavioural Insights Team.

 

[ChrisC]

Today I intended to travel from Worle to Bristol Parkway but aborted my journey at Bristol Temple Meads. This was because the two trains I boarded there were full and standing, offering an ideal covid breeding ground. One of these trains was a Cross-Country and this company is still offering only a half-timetable of trains from Bristol northwards. Nor have they extended the lengths of the trains they do still run. It was obvious with school holidays that this would be a busier week. I appreciate that the railways have probably lost the bigger half of their business but behaving like this is likely to lead to further loss of business.

I’ve been travelling around on crowded trains, buses and trams quite a lot during the last 2 months. This includes a long journey on a very crowded XC train from Exeter to Derby one Saturday morning. I’m in my mid 60’s and there just came a point where I decided I’d had enough of mask wearing and avoiding crowded public transport. I’m vaccinated and I have to trust that it does work and I also accept that wearing an ordinary flimsy mask does nothing. I stopped wearing a mask a while ago and don’t intend to wear one again. I needed to get back to some form of normality and crowded trains don’t worry me now.

However, there have been a few of instances on buses when I have not been 100% comfortable. I like to go a good walk one day a week and have been trying to use public transport to get to and from my walking locations as much as possible rather than taking my car. A few weeks ago I began my return journey by getting the bus from Bakewell to Chesterfield. When the bus arrived it was absolutely rammed with secondary school aged youngsters as it had obviously just picked up at the local school. Knowing that at the time most of them would be unvaccinated and that Covid infection was quite high amongst that age range I did not really enjoy the journey. This has happened on one or two mid afternoon bus journeys recently and I am trying to avoid travelling on services that are predominantly a school service.

 

[AlterEgo]

I agree that this is a long and rambling document. Thanks for posting this document so people can see it and make up their own mind. I have seen the German original and this translation follows that very closely in the key part of relevance here. I too got the impression when I first read it that people who are double vaccinated are allowed into Germany. And that is true, but it goes on later to say that people who have been in a high risk area within the last ten days must also quarantine for ten days, 14 in the case of new variant areas. The key sentence, in my view is:

'In addition, when entering the Federal Republic of Germany following a stay in a high-risk area or area of variants of concern outside of Germany, a special obligation to register, quarantine and furnish proof has to be observed.'

At the end of the day, this is not too surprising; travelers entering the UK from our list of red list countries also have to quarantine for 10 days in a hotel even if they are fully vaccinated.

That’s a long way of saying “sorry I was wrong”.

 

[davews]

Travelling yesterday the train up to Waterloo from Martins Heron was full and standing but most were quite happy to sit next to one another. A few wandering through looking for unoccupied banks especially those with kids and some standing as a result but by and large people don't care now. Even the leaving one seat free between on the tube seems to have largely gone now. Certainly doesn't worry me, usually grab a seat in a bank of six on a 450 and wait to see who joins me...

 

[Ianno87]

Travelling yesterday the train up to Waterloo from Martins Heron was full and standing but most were quite happy to sit next to one another. A few wandering through looking for unoccupied banks especially those with kids and some standing as a result but by and large people don't care now. Even the leaving one seat free between on the tube seems to have largely gone now. Certainly doesn't worry me, usually grab a seat in a bank of six on a 450 and wait to see who joins me...

A few peak trips between Bolton and Manchester this week. Some people in masks, some not, but people circulating around the train, sitting next to each other as if Covid weren't a thing. Masks aside, most people are happy to get back to normal.

 

[BackOnTheTrain]

BBC East Midlands News started the 6:30pm show today with a segment on a fella who was complaining about EMR trains being full and standing and not social distancing. I’ll try and find a link, but you might need to find it on iPlayer.

 

[ashworth]

BBC East Midlands News started the 6:30pm show today with a segment on a fella who was complaining about EMR trains being full and standing and not social distancing. I’ll try and find a link, but you might need to find it on iPlayer.

I saw this. It was the main headlines and first item on tonight’s edition. It mainly concerned the overcrowding on the Robin Hood Line at weekends as has been discussed in other threads.
The was a representative from EMR on the programme but I can’t remember his name. I wasn’t very impressed with the answers he gave and felt that he was only telling half the truth. He said that he was very aware of the problems and that the RHL had been a victim of its own success. When asked if anything was being done about the situation he replied by saying that revised timetables were being introduced in a few weeks time which will see an improvement in local services. He failed to add that these changes do not do anything to improve the frequency on the RHL and the service will remain only hourly until at least next May.

 

[stevetay3]

The very learned mayor of London has tried again today to make masks mandatory on all transport nationally as he can’t apply it to people in London without BTP support.

 

[bramling]

The very learned mayor of London has tried again today to make masks mandatory on all transport nationally as he can’t apply it to people in London without BTP support.

When will he get it in to his head that what goes on outside London is none of his business?

Indeed, as someone with business in London but without a vote in London mayoral elections, I regard him as an illegitimate politician.

Meanwhile, Londoners continue to give their verdict on all this. Mask use on TfL continues to be low.

 

[yorksrob]

When will he get it in to his head that what goes on outside London is none of his business?

Indeed, as someone with business in London but without a vote in London mayoral elections, I regard him as an illegitimate politician.

Yes, aren't masks already mandated on his patch ?

If so, why is he attempting to meddle in affairs that don't concern him.

 

[stevetay3]

When will he get it in to his head that what goes on outside London is none of his business?

Indeed, as someone with business in London but without a vote in London mayoral elections, I regard him as an illegitimate politician.

Meanwhile, Londoners continue to give their verdict on all this. Mask use on TfL continues to be low.

That’s why he threw his toys out of the pram today.

 

[bramling]

Yes, aren't masks already mandated on his patch ?

If so, why is he attempting to meddle in affairs that don't concern him.

Mandated on TfL, not on anything else - so for example you get the situation at Farringdon where you need a mask on platforms 1 and 2, but not on platforms 3 and 4.

His rationale is likely to be that he has been unable to make it a byelaw, instead relying on the conditions of carriage. This means BTP will not get involved - indeed they made the rather pointed statement back in July that they would no longer get involved in mask enforcement (from what I gather they were none too happy getting dumped with it in the first place). So trying to influence national policy is the only way Khan can get his way on this. His “hundreds of mask enforcement officers” are the only weapon he can deploy, and with compliance stubbornly at 50% or less this is a losing battle.

I’m sure Khan would also relish the notion of having the whole country back to masks, since he seems obsessed with them, but that’s a spin-off.

 

[yorkie]

Completely unmasked and I will also add unvaxed as I do trust my immune system.

I trust my immune system too!

But - after listening to expert immunologists and virologists - I came to the conclusion it makes sense to give my immune system a headstart by letting it see what the spike protein looks like and indeed, by doing so twice with a 9 week gap between the occasions, I can be confident of having the best headstart possible, ready for when I get exposed to the real virus.

It is worth noting that taking a vaccine is not taking anything away from the role of our immune system; it is like providing a training session for our immune system; a 'dummy run' so to speak. Without this, anyone who encounters the virus is going into battle with only their innate immune system, with no pre-existing adaptive immune response.

I also believe that in order to keep an immune system in optimal condition it is important to eat reasonably healthily, be reasonably fit and active and also to avoid overly stressful situations where practicable and to enjoy life as much as possible, having plenty of events to look forward to.

Worrying about catching viruses, not going out and about, not being active, etc (in other words all the things that occurred during lockdown and which some people are imposing upon themselves at the moment, often due to being stuck by fear due to being subject to inappropriate messaging) are all likely to be unhelpful in my opinion.

Mandated on TfL, not on anything else - so for example you get the situation at Farringdon where you need a mask on platforms 1 and 2, but not on platforms 3 and 4.

There is no legal mandate; Khan applied for it and the Government refused.

It's a condition of entry which exists in theory only; it only applies where the TfL conditions apply (i.e. does NOT apply to paper ticket holders on National Rail services) and effectively cannot be enforced, it isn't being enforced, and indeed most people are not wearing them.

 

[kingston_toon]

The very learned mayor of London has tried again today to make masks mandatory on all transport nationally as he can’t apply it to people in London without BTP support.

*Sigh* I do wish he would stop whingeing about this and perhaps concentrate on some of the other things he's responsible for. Every Tube journey I make suggests people do not agree with him and don't want to wear masks, and mandating them with government backing won't make the slightest bit of difference.

 

[DustyBin]

See Ordnance of 30 July, German Foreign Ministry:

auswaertiges.amt.de/en/coronavirus/2317268content_3

Germany has a significantly lower rate of covid infections and deaths than the UK and this may be down to the requirement to wear masks in crowded enclosed spaces, including trains, since the vaccination rate is lower there than here.

Surely it must have occurred to you that our (i.e. the UK’s) problem is that we’re obsessed with testing and use a ridiculous metric to record covid deaths? Comparing Germany and ourselves is a case of “apples and oranges”. It’s much more useful to compare England with Scotland or Wales (do check their respective covid stats if you haven’t already done so).

 

[yorkie]

*Sigh* I do wish he would stop whingeing about this and perhaps concentrate on some of the other things he's responsible for.

If he ever shuts up about this maybe we can, but I think he revels in being divisive and provocative and sees masks as the perfect thing to argue over, I can't see him shutting up anytime soon

Every Tube journey I make suggests people do not agree with him and don't want to wear masks, and mandating them with government backing won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Agreed but he achieves his aims of making a political point and inciting a culture war.

Surely it must have occurred to you that our (i.e. the UK’s) problem is that we’re obsessed with testing and use a ridiculous metric to record covid deaths? Comparing Germany and ourselves is a case of “apples and oranges”. It’s much more useful to compare England with Scotland or Wales (do check their respective covid stats if you haven’t already done so).

Absolutely.

The test positivity rate in Germany is far higher than the UK.

People falsely claim high rates in the UK are due to masks not being mandated in England. However masks are mandated in Wales for example, where case rates are among the highest in the world.

They also conveniently ignore numerous other countries and factors, to suit their false argument.

 

[Roast Veg]

Those who promote masks tend to want to get other people to wear any old masks, so don't tend to mention that FFP3 masks genuinely protect the wearer. Instead, they tend to promote standard masks and are keen to admit that they offer no protection to the wearer and the benefit is supposedly that they protect others. The implication is that people cannot protect themselves. But this is an entirely false premise.

So, why the status quo? Why aren't the public better informed? The answer is simple: most people have no need for masks, and those that are keen to promote masks want to see everyone wearing masks rather than just those who are immunocompromised. Therefore, mask promoters tend not to mention that FFP3 masks are highly effective.

It's a crazy situation, but that is where we are.

It reminds me somewhat of British Cycling's stance on helmet wearing. They do not encourage enforcement, since it would turn so many people away from bikes altogether.

 

[TPO]

I trust my immune system too!

But - after listening to expert immunologists and virologists - I came to the conclusion it makes sense to give my immune system a headstart by letting it see what the spike protein looks like and indeed, by doing so twice with a 9 week gap between the occasions, I can be confident of having the best headstart possible, ready for when I get exposed to the real virus.

It is worth noting that taking a vaccine is not taking anything away from the role of our immune system; it is like providing a training session for our immune system; a 'dummy run' so to speak. Without this, anyone who encounters the virus is going into battle with only their innate immune system, with no pre-existing adaptive immune response.

I also believe that in order to keep an immune system in optimal condition it is important to eat reasonably healthily, be reasonably fit and active and also to avoid overly stressful situations where practicable and to enjoy life as much as possible, having plenty of events to look forward to.

Worrying about catching viruses, not going out and about, not being active, etc (in other words all the things that occurred during lockdown and which some people are imposing upon themselves at the moment, often due to being stuck by fear due to being subject to inappropriate messaging) are all likely to be unhelpful in my opinion.


There is no legal mandate; Khan applied for it and the Government refused.

It's a condition of entry which exists in theory only; it only applies where the TfL conditions apply (i.e. does NOT apply to paper ticket holders on National Rail services) and effectively cannot be enforced, it isn't being enforced, and indeed most people are not wearing them.

Well said.

Very well said in fact.

TPO

 

[35B]

When will he get it in to his head that what goes on outside London is none of his business?

Indeed, as someone with business in London but without a vote in London mayoral elections, I regard him as an illegitimate politician.

Meanwhile, Londoners continue to give their verdict on all this. Mask use on TfL continues to be low.

Just a point on Khan's legitimacy - he is no less legitimate for being elected to office somewhere I have an interest than any other politician whose electorate is geographically constrained. I used to work away in Newcastle, where I had to pay council tax but had no vote in local elections; whatever my thoughts about the electorate's choices, I never challenged their legitimacy.

 

[NorthKent1989]

*Sigh* I do wish he would stop whingeing about this and perhaps concentrate on some of the other things he's responsible for. Every Tube journey I make suggests people do not agree with him and don't want to wear masks, and mandating them with government backing won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Why would he give up on this? Masks are the one issue Khan is feels he’s capable at, he’s utterly worthless in all other areas

 

[Butts]

Why would he give up on this? Masks are the one issue Khan is feels he’s capable at, he’s utterly worthless in all other areas

Wonder what the Policy would have been if Boris was still the incumbent ?

 

[greyman42]

Why would he give up on this? Masks are the one issue Khan is feels he’s capable at, he’s utterly worthless in all other areas

Perhaps Khan hopes that his constant rattling on about masks will deflect from his worthlessness.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Perhaps Khan hopes that his constant rattling on about masks will deflect from his worthlessness.

Exactly, And all it’s doing his highlighting how pointless and worthless he actually, a chocolate teapot has more use than Khan does, I just like how millions of ordinary Londoners are going around massless while he flaps about like a petulant child.

Wonder what the Policy would have been if Boris was still the incumbent ?

Boris hasn’t been mayor for years now, he’s the PM and he’s botched that up, fast becoming the most hated PM since Blair and Thatcher.

But his ineptitude doesn’t nor should it be a what aboutism for Khan’s uselessness