Worst Rail Routes for fare collection in members' experience?

[Kite159]

To be honest I expect at commuter times (which is when this mostly happens) fare dodging is low anyway. Most are using season tickets, and of those who aren't many are travelling on expenses - why would you fare-dodge on behalf of your employer when you can just claim it back?

I find more on a Sunday afternoon as a stopper from Milton Keynes gets in at XX;18, followed by an Overground at XX;23 & a train from Birmingham also at XX;23. If all 3 use 8-11 it can cause overcrowding especially if there are delays as the train from Crewe gets in at XX;33.

(Using 4pm based on a Sunday in October)

Regarding e-tickets, the rise has probably meant it's easier for those pay when challenged lot to short fare when they reach stations with barriers. I.e. having an e-ticket from Mauldeth Road/Levenshulme for Piccadilly.

The sort who will generally aim for the front unit of a pair of gangway less units (150/1s, 195/331s etc)

 

[dk1]

One thing I'd be very interested to see is if the increased prevalence of e-tickets has caused a reduction in fare-dodging, as if you're in a habit of buying on your phone you'll likely do it anyway regardless of whether anyone is there. OK, you could buy one after departure but the scanners now flag this up.

Yes I think people do it now before boarding as a matter of course. The sudden surge in ticket machine use at local stations this way when the guards where not passing through seems to have dropped off & even though they are quite busy selling tickets still, the use of mobile ticketing has gone through the roof.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Same experience here with SWR. Even on longer routes to Alton or Reading it is very rare. Never had tickets checked on Farnham to Guildford either in the 75+ times I must have used it.

I regularly take the 0602 from Aldershot to Waterloo and there is almost always a ticket check before Brookwood.

And what particular route would that be?

Did you not see the key word at the beginning, “All,”

 

[steamybrian]

All Southeastern services, they were irregular before covid but are almost non existent now.

I travel regularly from Tonbridge and on many daytime trains I have travelled on tickets have been checked. Many random stings at Tonbridge for which the Police have got involved with someone who did not/could not pay for his ticket. Recently caught a train from Wye (which was unmanned) and was immediately met by the conductor who issued me with a ticket.
The worst line on the SouthEastern I would say is the Dover- Canterbury East-Faversham-Sittingbourne-Chatham section which (is rumoured by others) is ripe for fare evasion.

 

[NewClee153]

DELETED

 

[centraltrains]

It's always amusing when you overhear people talk about weather they should buy an e-ticket or not as to if the barriers will be open or not at New Street .
When I was commuting to University there were certainly more checks on the Cross City line than the Snow Hill lines, probably about 4 revenue inspection checks on Cross City and 1 on Snow Hill during my time.
(Peculiarly the Snow Hill line check was undertaken by LNR uniformed staff).
Guards seemed to be slightly more proactive with checking tickets on Stratford services.

I travelled with a weekly season ticket on a smartcard for a bit with West Midlands Railway, often guards would not even check there was a ticket on the smartcard, just a glance at the smart card.

This is what I found too travelling with termly season tickets, the check was certainly more common pre-covid, once had a guard scan my season ticket which took me by surprise - think they were using the public Swift card app to check what was loaded.

Quite, the last 2 Saturdays I’ve visited Snow Hill (this Saturday and a fortnight ago) the barriers were open both times.

I was travelling weekday-daily earlier in the year and it felt random as if they'd be open or not. At New Street & Moor Street it seemed to be more time dependent.
Snow Hill ticket office seems more commonly shut for a city-central ticket office than I'd expect - which I imagine must have some effect on the ability to enforce the barriers. Looking on a departures app, seems like the ticket office is closed right now.

 

[plugwash]

The IETs mainly serve barriered stations, except at the extremities of the network.

I've noticed in general since the introduction of more ticket barriers that ticket checking on trains has got more slack and even more so since Covid.

The issue with this is that most stations don't have ticket checking for interchange passengers, and most local stations either don't have ticket barriers at all or often have them left open. I recently Travelled from a local station in the Greater Manchester area to a Local station in the Cambridge area via Mancester, Leeds, Peterborough and Ely without encoutering a single ticket check.

 

[uglymonkey]

Ticket inspectors on Thameslink ( Baldock to London Bridge) are as rare as hens teeth. In 6 months of commuting. also I've had one ticket inspector on train from London Bridge to Gravesend ( South Eastern?)

 

[Birmingham]

The sort who will generally aim for the front unit of a pair of gangway less units (150/1s, 195/331s etc)

Do you brand everyone who uses the front set of a pair as a fare evader, or only a proportion? If the latter how do you determine this?

 

[Edsmith]

I travel regularly from Tonbridge and on many daytime trains I have travelled on tickets have been checked. Many random stings at Tonbridge for which the Police have got involved with someone who did not/could not pay for his ticket. Recently caught a train from Wye (which was unmanned) and was immediately met by the conductor who issued me with a ticket.
The worst line on the SouthEastern I would say is the Dover- Canterbury East-Faversham-Sittingbourne-Chatham section which (is rumoured by others) is ripe for fare evasion.

I've often been through Tonbridge and the ticket gates are left open and unattended, same at Tunbridge Wells. There is a ticket machine at Wye. I think the whole Southeastern network is ripe for fare evasion.

Ticket inspectors on Thameslink ( Baldock to London Bridge) are as rare as hens teeth. In 6 months of commuting. also I've had one ticket inspector on train from London Bridge to Gravesend ( South Eastern?)

I've seen Southeastern ticket inspectors checking tickets on Thameslink although that was a few years ago.

 

[northwichcat]

Do you brand everyone who uses the front set of a pair as a fare evader, or only a proportion? If the latter how do you determine this?

When it's a pair of Northern units, if both sets have seats available and there's different seat types, I choose the one with the type of seats I find more comfortable. On Saturday that was the front set for the outbound journey and the rear set for the return. I also observe most people go for the nearest door when the train stops, so on occasions the set with the guard in can end up much busier than the set without and vice versa.

I wonder if Northern are watching this thread. I've just received an email asking about whether I saw the conductor or RPI on my recent journey!

 

[PaulJ]

I travel regularly from Tonbridge and on many daytime trains I have travelled on tickets have been checked. Many random stings at Tonbridge for which the Police have got involved with someone who did not/could not pay for his ticket. Recently caught a train from Wye (which was unmanned) and was immediately met by the conductor who issued me with a ticket.
The worst line on the SouthEastern I would say is the Dover- Canterbury East-Faversham-Sittingbourne-Chatham section which (is rumoured by others) is ripe for fare evasion.

Not when I'm working those services...

I regularly take the 0602 from Aldershot to Waterloo and there is almost always a ticket check before Brookwood.


Did you not see the key word at the beginning, “All,”

Call me Mr Non-existent. I work the Mainlines (not Metro) and my presence is always visible.

 

[185143]

Do also bear in mind that there is a station every couple of minutes between Canterbury West and Ashford, and they all have short platforms too. Therefore there is very little time to do ticket checks on that stretch.


Re Victoria to Bromley - this is true. Conductors are not able to check Oyster cards or contactless transactions.

SWR guards can. Got checked on a 455 in the morning peak a couple of years ago, very definitely by the guard as he was the one doing the doors when I bailed out.

 

[nlogax]

Thinking back I don't believe I've been at the receiving end of a single ticket check since SWR took over from SWT. Certainly not within a hundred miles of Waterloo.

 

[Kite159]

Do you brand everyone who uses the front set of a pair as a fare evader, or only a proportion? If the latter how do you determine this?

When you see them making a bee-line for the front unit saying "go to the front, less chance of needing to pay", passing doors on the rear unit in order to board the rearmost set of doors on the front unit.

I remember a few years ago back on the Blackpool South loop, there were some unhappy passengers who boarded the front 150 of a pair only to find an assistant ticket examiner waiting to pounce. Clearly wanting a free ride.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

BR went back and forth on barriers. In the late 80s "open stations" were in vogue, where barriers were removed to make the experience more welcoming.

That's just PR fluff. The real reason was a strong desire to reduce station staffing costs. And it took 20+ years to realise the long-term problems that created. Now we seem to be repeating the same pattern of decline albeit from a healthier starting point.

 

[iainbhx]

Except for Intercity Trains, fares in Germany are set by local transport associations. DB are fairly good at onboard ticket checks on Intercity. On other lines, in my experience, the non-DB franchises are better at ticket checks. Most cities rely on random checks (with plain clothes inspectors) on all public transport with hefty fines for travel without a ticket. It's possible the same applies for rural routes too.

I've just come back from a week in the Rhine Gorge, where I managed to take around 30 different trains during the course of it including Avanti and Eurostar. On board ticket checks were four in number, the two Avanti trips, from Mannheim Hbf to Mainz Hbf and from Koblenz Hbf to Sankt Goarhausen. Tickets obviously were checked before boarding for both Avanti services, both Eurostar service and at Paris-Est for the ICE to Mannheim Hbf.

The one that amazes me is that I came back Mainz Hbf-Mannheim Hbf-Paris-Est in 1st and no-one checked my ticket. Someone came through a couple of times on the Mannheim - Paris run with a tray of already poured coffees they tried to sell, but unlike the outbound, there was no one offering food for purchase from the BordRestaurant although it was in operation according to the announcements. That's very unDB like for longer runs.

 

[thenorthern]

Between Haymarket and Edinburgh was notorious for fare dodgers until ticket barriers were installed in 2004.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's just PR fluff. The real reason was a strong desire to reduce station staffing costs. And it took 20+ years to realise the long-term problems that created. Now we seem to be repeating the same pattern of decline albeit from a healthier starting point.

Open stations worked fine when everything was a 2 car DMU and the guard could easily get through. Longer trains have rendered that infeasible, plus the likes of Northern and their unnecessarily strict rules on where guards can dispatch from rather than trusting their professional judgement. South East DOO operations have unstaffed units and this doesn't cause major issues.

 

[Horizon22]

There do appear to be plenty of BTP revenue blocks and “stings” on the Slade Green rounders though. My local is Woolwich Arsenal.

Partly this is a cure to an ailment that should never had existed; Southeastern reliant on stings is because the on-board presence has descended to such a poor level that this appears to be the only feasible option.

 

[miklcct]

I have seen people force-passing the barrier out on my local Thameslink line multiple times.

One of the stations is configured in the way that the staff sits in the control room where the gateline is visible, while another station has the gateline at the back door placed to be monitored remotely.

In my experience, ticket checks on the London metro routes are very rare - I think I have only encountered once on the Overground in months.

 

[JonathanH]

I have seen people force-passing the barrier out on my local Thameslink line multiple times.

Yes, the current ticket barriers have become completely unfit for purpose with the increase in passengers forcing their way through them, or tailgating through the wide access gate.

They need to be made much more robust to remove the opportunity to be forced.

I know that people talk about emergency situations but given there is always a member of staff, the member of staff can deal with that.

 

[youngiecj]

This isn’t my experience with LNER and Thameslink.

I’ve had ticket checks with both recently, on the relative short journey between Stevenage and London.

All e-tickets scanned (in fact an LNER guard charged two people in my carriage for travelling on incorrect tickets). I had a paper tickets and they were given only a brief glance.

Same, I even had my pass checked quite a lot recently between Grantham and Newark, which I thought was impressive. Personally seen an increase in RPO teams in the Grantham area on LNER.

 

[Watershed]

Same, I even had my pass checked quite a lot recently between Grantham and Newark, which I thought was impressive. Personally seen an increase in RPO teams in the Grantham area on LNER.

The RPI teams seem to do quite a bit there - we've heard of several cases around that area. The abolition of the barriers at Grantham and Newark probably hasn't helped.

 

[Shrop]

I know this is heresy on this forum, but I'd much rather drinkers were heading back to Wem from Shrewsbury on the train rather than driving back.

And if we lose a few pennies on fares - let's say 30 people dodging the £5.70 return fare making a grand total of £170-ish every Friday - does it really matter? Attending to one road accident caused by a drunk driver speeding in the dark at, say, Harmer Hill will cost the public purse tens of thousands at least.

I don't see why this should be heresy on this forum, it's simple reality! I completely agree with your comments, it's the lack of Government interest in transport that's the really appalling thing.
Rail staff at most levels are actually fully aware of wholesale fare dodging, yet at the same time there are many rail travellers who get penalised harshly when their only crime is to not properly understand some of the complexities of the fare system. The really unfair thing is when the elderly or confused passengers suffer harsh enforcement, while being loud and threatening in groups is often a guaranteed passport to free travel.
It's also unreasonable that the railways should take a hit on their fares just to effectively subsidise the emergency services from not having to attend a road accident. It's all a very lazy way to have a transport system, and as I say, a sorry situation that our disinterested Government presides over.

 

[Edsmith]

Like others I've seen numerous examples of freeloaders tailgating others through ticket gates.

A Southeastern guard said people have had a year or more of free travel during the pandemic (with onboard ticket checks suspended) and they're in no rush to start paying again.

 

[Dai Corner]

Like others I've seen numerous examples of freeloaders tailgating others through ticket gates.

A Southeastern guard said people have had a year or more of free travel during the pandemic (with onboard ticket checks suspended) and they're in no rush to start paying again.

Guards and station staff could therefore help fund their pay claim by ensuring everyone did pay?

 

[northwichcat]

Not when I'm working those services...

Call me Mr Non-existent. I work the Mainlines (not Metro) and my presence is always visible.

If the route is like some of Northern routes there are guards who always walk through but these are outnumbered by the ones who remain in the cab out-of-sight as much as possible. There's also some who do one walk through, prior to the train reaching it's final (barriered) destination.

 

[Scott1]

Guards and station staff could therefore help fund their pay claim by ensuring everyone did pay

 

[sk688]

Avanti don't appear to ever do arrival checks at Euston, and again LNR only do it by way of the 8-11 gateline except RPI stings.

From travelling , I have noticed that the 1634 arrival into Euston at p1 seems Avanti RPI quite frequently , and during the most recent set of rail strikes there were individuals in blue tabards doing detailed checks of Avanti arrivals , even on unbarriered platforms

Can count on single figures the number of checks I've had between Milton Keynes and Euston since October 2021 , as well as between Watford Junction and Milton Keynes on Avanti services.

LNR are rare on the stoppers but have seen some (albeit very infrequent ones) on the Crewe services ,and the Northampton ones that are first stop Leighton