Sad Sprinter
Established Member
HS3?
if there’s another HSL to the north, it will be via Stansted, Cambridge to Yorkshire, and not via the Nottingham / Derby area.
What makes you chose that route?
HS3?
if there’s another HSL to the north, it will be via Stansted, Cambridge to Yorkshire, and not via the Nottingham / Derby area.
HS1 and HS2 are pretty different lines, HS1 was originally privately funded for Eurostar and later Southeastern with services running over it priced at a premium. HS2 will be treated like any other piece of track with trains happening to go that way rather than charging a premium.Unlikely, given that the building of HS1 didn't lead to HS2 being seen in a favourable light.
If you really think Avanti, or whoever are running services at that point, won’t charge a premium you’re kidding yourself. If not through a ‘NOT VIA HS2’ routeing, using VIA routes on the WCML to force cheaper tickets that way.HS2 will be treated like any other piece of track with trains happening to go that way rather than charging a premium.
How will they fill the enormous new capacity if they charge a premium??If you really think Avanti, or whoever are running services at that point, won’t charge a premium you’re kidding yourself. If not through a ‘NOT VIA HS2’ routeing, using VIA routes on the WCML to force cheaper tickets that way.
Who will persuade the DfT to subsidise the "via WCML" tickets to make them cheaper?If you really think Avanti, or whoever are running services at that point, won’t charge a premium you’re kidding yourself. If not through a ‘NOT VIA HS2’ routeing, using VIA routes on the WCML to force cheaper tickets that way.
What competition is there? The remaining Avanti WCML trains are for places not served by HS2 like North Wales, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry and Wolverhampton (though this one you can change at Birmingham).If you really think Avanti, or whoever are running services at that point, won’t charge a premium you’re kidding yourself. If not through a ‘NOT VIA HS2’ routeing, using VIA routes on the WCML to force cheaper tickets that way.
Originally HS2 was going to be full from the start, now with the eastern leg cancelled there is some spare capacity for Open Access.If HS2 has competition like that, it is likely to be competing against other HS2 trains in the style of Ouigo.
I think the better question is who will persuade the DfT that they instead can’t make HS2 tickets more expensive to make some return on their very shiny new railway.Who will persuade the DfT to subsidise the "via WCML" tickets to make them cheaper?
You don’t need competition, you can still get to these places via the slower routes on those trains, even if they’re less frequent.What competition is there? The remaining Avanti WCML trains are for places not served by HS2 like North Wales, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry and Wolverhampton (though this one you can change at Birmingham).
Any chance the operator will run trains just to use up those spaces, as competition would cost them more than running fairly empty trains.Originally HS2 was going to be full from the start, now with the eastern leg cancelled there is some spare capacity for Open Access.
They will make their return by slashing the operational subsidies to the classic railway.I think the better question is who will persuade the DfT that they instead can’t make HS2 tickets more expensive to make some return on their very shiny new railway.
The business case for HS2 is providing a lot of seats to Manchester, Birmingham etc. intercity trains which makes space on the classic lines for more trains to Rugby, Coventry etc.I think the better question is who will persuade the DfT that they instead can’t make HS2 tickets more expensive to make some return on their very shiny new railway.
Why would the DfT want you to go that way? It wants you on the fast trains to wherever you are going so more people from non-HS2 destinations can go on the classic WCML and so it can cut WCML subsidy. Moving people off the WCML will also make it more reliable.You don’t need competition, you can still get to these places via the slower routes on those trains, even if they’re less frequent.
Any open access operator will need to prove to the ORR that that aren't just taking passengers away from existing HS2 trains.Any chance the operator will run trains just to use up those spaces, as competition would cost them more than running fairly empty trains.
Or will the DfT protect those paths as being held for future extensions?
Because selling lots of tickets cheaply is going to provide a better return than selling some expensive ones, and think about the politics of it: empty trains and high ticket prices are going to be politically embarrassing so will be avoidedI think the better question is who will persuade the DfT that they instead can’t make HS2 tickets more expensive to make some return on their very shiny new railway.
If you really think Avanti, or whoever are running services at that point, won’t charge a premium you’re kidding yourself. If not through a ‘NOT VIA HS2’ routeing, using VIA routes on the WCML to force cheaper tickets that way.
A TGV Duplex (so fairly old now) at 320kph is supposed to use a similar amount of energy per seat-km at 320km/h as a Class 390 uses at 200km/h.As such, whilst costs like maintenance and energy costs would increase (both of which are only part of the final 1/3 of costs), these are more than absorbed by a significant fall in staff costs whilst leasing costs stay broadly flat. On a per train basis.
A TGV Duplex (so fairly old now) at 320kph is supposed to use a similar amount of energy per seat-km at 320km/h as a Class 390 uses at 200km/h.
Tilting mechanisms are really really heavy.
Also the shorter journey will reduce the need for expensive catering staff etc etc etc.
A brand new line all the way from Plymouth to Exeter on a new alignment.Similarly, what would be the cost/works required to bring Plymouth-Exeter down to 30mins?
True. Realistically we should be looking at lineapeed improvements here and there to get the journey from Exeter to Plymouth closer to 45 minutes , but even this would be hell of a stretch. Cornwall I really can't see any advantage in speeding up too much more as the end of the line at Penzance isn't the ultimate destination for too many people. Plymouth to Exeter on the other hand benefits the large city of Plymouth but also all of Cornwall with quicker journey times to London. Thats where I'd focus the expenditure personally.A brand new line all the way from Plymouth to Exeter on a new alignment.
No amount of speed improvements on the existing alignment could bring the time down to 30 minutes.
The same applies for bringing Plymouth to Penzance down to 1 hour.
What would be needed to get the journey down to 1hr?
Look at a large-scale map and check out the curve radii. Redruth to Truro is a good section to start with - the curves are around 600m radius, which is good for 60mph or thereabouts. That section crosses a number of viaducts, so the only solution would be an entirely new line. It's like that most of the way to Newton AbbottNoob here, be kind...
Is there any online resource that describes the blockers and possible solutions for increasing linespeed on the Plymouth-PZ section? What would be needed to get the journey down to 1hr? Fully appreciate all the well-trodden arguments about population size, urban distribution, hills, crappy old signalling yadda yadda yadda but am looking for a bit of positive discussion as to what improvements could made with a modest spend.
Similarly, what would be the cost/works required to bring Plymouth-Exeter down to 30mins?