Wrong roundel

[bakerstreet]

TfL usually has such clear signage and has very strict guidelines in order to keep signage effective, clear and consistent.
Am I the only one who thinks the below is crazy?
West or East Croydon is the next station.
Yet - at the platform at Norwood Junction - a number of roundels are branded thus:



I know it’s for a campaign but to have (in at least one case) two of these in a row seems a very curious decision.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

That is shockingly bad.

 

[norbitonflyer]

TfL are quite protective about their roundels. I think Croydon Borough Council and its advertising agency might soon be getting a letter from TfL's Intellectual Property lawyers.

 

[John Webb]

I would have thought the main complaint about this particular sign would be the misleading of arriving passengers who were heading for Croydon and thought that they were now there and got off the train!
As it seems to be a properly made and mounted sign I can only think it was done with the permission of both TfL and NR.

 

[Snow1964]

Dreadful because it is not the correct location.
Should always be station name on the bar

The message about the borough at the bottom is ok in my view

And why do they think a no smoking logo is needed on a culture advertising sign, it was banned on platforms over 16 years years ago (July 2007), do they really need extra signs these days.

 

[skyhigh]

And why do they think a no smoking logo is needed on a culture advertising sign, it was banned on platforms over 16 years years ago (July 2007), do they really need extra signs these days.

Based on my general experience, yes.

 

[Deepgreen]

As an ex-LU/TfL employee involved with design, I find this staggeringly poor and I cannot understand how it has been allowed, both from an intellectual property standpoint and a basic station information one (i.e. it ISN'T Croydon!). That it is an enamel sign indicates it is supposed to be durable/in situ for a long time. A waste/abuse of resources, space and a valuable corporate identity.

Dreadful because it is not the correct location.
Should always be station name on the bar

The message about the borough at the bottom is ok in my view

And why do they think a no smoking logo is needed on a culture advertising sign, it was banned on platforms over 16 years years ago (July 2007), do they really need extra signs these days.

Given the number of people who still smoke/vape on platforms; yes, it's still needed to back up enforcement.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

As an ex-LU/TfL employee involved with design, I find this staggeringly poor and I cannot understand how it has been allowed, both from an intellectual property standpoint and a basic station information one (i.e. it ISN'T Croydon!).


Given the number of people who still smoke/vape on platforms; yes, it's still needed to back up enforcement.

How long before some wag with a black permanent marker turns up and adds ‘NOT’

 

[eldomtom2]

TfL are quite protective about their roundels. I think Croydon Borough Council and its advertising agency might soon be getting a letter from TfL's Intellectual Property lawyers.

I would presume they have permission if it's on the platform...

 

[bakerstreet]

Just to clarify, where this Croydon roundel exists on the platform at Norwood Junction, it has been pasted over the existing TfL station roundels.

Hence why I’m rather staggered TfL would even contemplate doing this where it replaces its own basic and crucial signage for passengers.

As an ex-LU/TfL employee involved with design, I find this staggeringly poor

I obviously don’t know what you did for TfL design but I have always been hugely impressed by what I see. TfL generally is the gold standard of clear, consistent and attractive signage and communication.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Dreadful because it is not the correct location.
Should always be station name on the bar

The message about the borough at the bottom is ok in my view

And why do they think a no smoking logo is needed on a culture advertising sign, it was banned on platforms over 16 years years ago (July 2007), do they really need extra signs these days.

What you've got to remember, is its not actually illegal to smoke on platforms as per the 2007 smoking laws. They are outside, and people know you can smoke outdoors.
It is a byelaw offence. So therefore 'No Smoking' signs are required

 

[Bensonby]

Given the number of people who still smoke/vape on platforms; yes, it's still needed to back up enforcement.

Smoking is only illegal “ on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed”. Vaping is not illegal.

 

[PGAT]

Haven’t Lewisham council done a similar thing at stations like Honor Oak Park?

 

[Purple Train]

Haven’t Lewisham council done a similar thing at stations like Honor Oak Park?

Yes.

 

[TrenHotel]

Haven’t Lewisham council done a similar thing at stations like Honor Oak Park?

Yes, the slogan is "We are Lewisham", which was used for its time as London borough of culture last year.

"This is Croydon" is the equivalent slogan this year.

 

[Dr_Paul]

What struck me as the most absurd thing here was Croydon's posing as 'London Borough of Culture'.

 

[Master29]

What struck me as most absurd thing here was Croydon's posing as 'London Borough of Culture'.

Indeed. I thought this was what was implied.

 

[Trainguy34]

What struck me as most absurd thing here was Croydon's posing as 'London Borough of Culture'.

In my eyes, Camden or Lambeth clearly takes the crown.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What struck me as most absurd thing here was Croydon's posing as 'London Borough of Culture'.

As in what grows (possibly) in a petri dish?

 

[Surreytraveller]

As in what grows (possibly) in a petri dish?

That's what I was going to say

 

[whoosh]

TfL usually has such clear signage and has very strict guidelines in order to keep signage effective, clear and consistent.
Am I the only one who thinks the below is crazy?
West or East Croydon is the next station.
Yet - at the platform at Norwood Junction - a number of roundels are branded thus:

View attachment 140844

I know it’s for a campaign but to have (in at least one case) two of these in a row seems a very curious decision.

No you aren't the only one. Should be on a separate board, not taking over existing information, and shouldn't use the roundel.

There will be people getting off at the wrong stop who don't travel very often.

"We are Lewisham" has also taken over some station name roundels at Honor Oak Park a little way along the same line, as someone else has mentioned.

It's an outrageous corruption of previously one of the most clear signage and wayfinding information systems in the world.

And totally silly to boot!

 

[edwin_m]

No you aren't the only one. Should be on a separate board, not taking over existing information, and shouldn't use the roundel.

There will be people getting off at the wrong stop who don't travel very often.

"We are Lewisham" has also taken over some station name roundels at Honor Oak Park a little way along the same line, as someone else has mentioned.

It's an outrageous corruption of previously one of the most clear signage and wayfinding information systems in the world.

And totally silly to boot!

Precedent was unfortunately set when they started granting temporary renaming rights for entire stations to paying sponsors.

 

[Farigiraf]

Fixed the sign so people know where they are but Croydon 'Borough of Culture ' gets their publicity

 

[LLivery]

The London Borough of Culture is a GLA thing, like the European City of Culture.

Lewisham was for 2022. Our stations on this route all had them put up; they're awful. Baffles me that they then did it for the Croydon stations and still not think adding the station names would be good idea.

I also think it's TfL putting these up, rather than the London Boroughs, seeing the Southeastern and Southern stations don't/never had them and it's the GLA...

 

[Horizon22]

Just to clarify, where this Croydon roundel exists on the platform at Norwood Junction, it has been pasted over the existing TfL station roundels.

Hence why I’m rather staggered TfL would even contemplate doing this where it replaces its own basic and crucial signage for passengers.



I obviously don’t know what you did for TfL design but I have always been hugely impressed by what I see. TfL generally is the gold standard of clear, consistent and attractive signage and communication.

Is it every single one? Or just a few?

I remember this happned on Lewisham (borough) stations too in a previous year. It's more of an advert/promotional thing, and I would presume has TfL's full backing as it is on their station. Whether it looks poor, is I suppose a matter of opinion.

 

[bluegoblin7]

This has been ongoing since 2019 (bar 2021) although this is arguably the ‘worst’ contender in terms of slogan.

2019 was Waltham Forest, 2020 Brent and 2022 Lewisham (as mentioned).

I can’t comment for the current ones but in the past it has only been one or two roundels at selected stations, and is a combined GLA/TfL initiative.

The debate around ‘playing with the roundel’ is a weak one imo - look hard enough and there’s plenty of evidence of the roundel being ‘misused’ for a significant period of time (and not just within the TfL era).

There is, however, a very strong argument against ‘messing’ with wayfinding information, in the same way as takeovers etc cause problems. It is interesting though how here there is broad agreement with that yet if it’s for, eg, a football manager people end up being killjoys and no fun at parties.

 

[bakerstreet]

Is it every single one? Or just a few?

It’s only a few on each platform but as per my OP in some cases they are consecutive. So if you’re in the wrong part of the train that’s what you see.

There is, however, a very strong argument against ‘messing’ with wayfinding information, in the same way as takeovers etc cause problems.

agreed

I would presume has TfL's full backing as it is on their station. Whether it looks poor, is I suppose a matter of opinion.

yes I’m sure it must have which is why I was so surprised to see it. It’s not that it looks poor (the vinyls have been applied well) or a matter of taste. It’s that I don’t live in Norwood Junction and if my experience is anything to go by, for the passenger it can be frustrating.
I would be concerned if the reassurance of place finding by the roundel (especially where the station name is replaced with a different geographical name) was diluted on a wider scale.

 

[32475]

As much as anything it’s a bloody awful choice of typeface (in my humble opinion)

 

[Busaholic]

What struck me as the most absurd thing here was Croydon's posing as 'London Borough of Culture'.

London Borough of Corruption wouldn't fit on the sign!!

 

[Sonic1234]

This thread has made it on to a local news/politics blog https://insidecroydon.com/2023/08/1...nding-passengers-up-the-junction/#more-157273