XC services allocated for Double Voyagers

[Jamesrob637]

There are...

Ok fewer than weekdays then not working on the railways and having access to TRUST myself, I can only rely on Journey Check.

 

[YorksLad12]

I did see a 4 + 5 leaving Leeds an hour or so ago. Looking at RTT this would have been 1V62 Newcastle to Bristol. Never seen a 4 and a 5 coupled together before.

 

[221129]

I did see a 4 + 5 leaving Leeds an hour or so ago. Looking at RTT this would have been 1V62 Newcastle to Bristol. Never seen a 4 and a 5 coupled together before.

Happens all the time.

 

[YorksLad12]

Happens all the time.

Really? Never seen one. Lots of 4 + 4 but never a 4 + 5.

 

[43055]

Really? Never seen one. Lots of 4 + 4 but never a 4 + 5.

Not every day but yes it does happen. 4+4 is the most common but 4+5 and even 5+5 is possible.

 

[Rich McLean]

They are not planned to on paper, but 4 and 5 car Voyagers in practice are treated as a Common fleet, so a double voyager could be 4-4, 4+5 or 5+5 on the same diagram, different days of the week.

 

[lammergeier]

2x5 shouldn't happen as there are stations and platforms on the route which are 9 car only and voyagers don't have SDO. Chesterfield is one, there are a few more as well.

I've been at XC for years and I've never had a 10 car aside from ECS.

 

[221129]

2x5 shouldn't happen as there are stations and platforms on the route which are 9 car only and voyagers don't have SDO. Chesterfield is one, there are a few more as well.

I've been at XC for years and I've never had a 10 car aside from ECS.

It does happen occasionally, but as you say very rare indeed.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It does happen occasionally, but as you say very rare indeed.

This is a screenshot of Journey Check. This was empty on Saturday despite the same number of trains running. Ignoring the Cardiff turns, HST workings and an odd delay, the following are doubles:

11:06 Edinburgh to Plymouth
13:45 Bournemouth to Manchester
14:27 Plymouth to Edinburgh as far as Newcastle
15:35 Bristol to Edinburgh as far as Newcastle
16:15 Reading to Manchester
16:27 Manchester to Bournemouth
16:45 Bournemouth to Manchester

All I could see on Saturday at a similar hour was one HST turn, maybe two, and one or two disrupted services.

 

[221129]

This is a screenshot of Journey Check. This was empty on Saturday despite the same number of trains running. Ignoring the Cardiff turns, HST workings and an odd delay, the following are doubles:

11:06 Edinburgh to Plymouth
13:45 Bournemouth to Manchester
14:27 Plymouth to Edinburgh as far as Newcastle
15:35 Bristol to Edinburgh as far as Newcastle
16:15 Reading to Manchester
16:27 Manchester to Bournemouth
16:45 Bournemouth to Manchester

All I could see on Saturday at a similar hour was one HST turn, maybe two, and one or two disrupted services.

All it means is that it wasn't updated over the weekend. Not really that surprised with less staff in control.

 

[voyagerdude220]

There are...

Again today- no double sets I can see on Trust, apart from a positioning move on one service to get another 220 back towards Central Rivers.

 

[221129]

Again today- no double sets I can see on Trust, apart from a positioning move on one service to get another 220 back towards Central Rivers.

There are at least 3 today.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Someone must not update Journey Check on Saturdays.

 

[voyagerdude220]

There are at least 3 today.

That surprises me, as I looked all day between Birmingham and Bristol/Reading/Newcastle/Manchester and couldn't see any at all other than the one I mentioned earlier.

 

[6026KingJohn]

2x5 shouldn't happen as there are stations and platforms on the route which are 9 car only and voyagers don't have SDO. Chesterfield is one, there are a few more as well.

I've been at XC for years and I've never had a 10 car aside from ECS.

Bristol Temple Meads, May 2016. 1125 Plymouth-Dundee (with second set Bristol-Newcastle) Sorry for the poor screen captures, unable to attach MVI file. 221127 & 221132 (I think)

 

[lammergeier]

Bristol Temple Meads, May 2016. 1125 Plymouth-Dundee (with second set Bristol-Newcastle) Sorry for the poor screen captures, unable to attach MVI file. 221127 & 221132 (I think)View attachment 79825View attachment 79826View attachment 79829

The fact you found an example from 4 years ago doesn't negate my post. It shouldn't happen in normal service because it causes problems at the 9 car platforms. I didn't say it can't happen, just that it shouldn't and I've personally never had a ten in service, because it's rare (but clearly not unheard of).

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looked at Journey Check once yesterday around mid-afternoon and only one double was reported - think it was a Bristol to Edinburgh or vice-versa. The other reports were HST diagrams and a slight delay to one train.

The usual array of doubles today as XC are still only running just over half of services.

 

[43 302]

I had 221120+221132 Oxford to Coventry last July but iirc none of the coaches were locked OOU. 1M58 6/7/19. Can 10 car voyagers run on the Bournemouth to Piccadilly diagram or am I just remembering incorrectly?

 

[221129]

I had 221120+221132 Oxford to Coventry last July but iirc none of the coaches were locked OOU. 1M58 6/7/19. Can 10 car voyagers run on the Bournemouth to Piccadilly diagram or am I just remembering incorrectly?

10 car is fine on that route IIRC.

 

[221129]

Looked at Journey Check once yesterday around mid-afternoon and only one double was reported - think it was a Bristol to Edinburgh or vice-versa. The other reports were HST diagrams and a slight delay to one train.

The usual array of doubles today as XC are still only running just over half of services.

Again, there were at least 3 yesterday. All of which were on journey check.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Again, there were at least 3 yesterday. All of which were on journey check.

Of which 2 either had already reached their destination, hadn't started or simply weren't reported.

 

[221129]

Of which 2 either had already reached their destination, hadn't started or simply weren't reported.

They were all reported on journey check.

 

[6026KingJohn]

The fact you found an example from 4 years ago doesn't negate my post. It shouldn't happen in normal service because it causes problems at the 9 car platforms. I didn't say it can't happen, just that it shouldn't and I've personally never had a ten in service, because it's rare (but clearly not unheard of).

I quite agree with you, I also thought it wasn't supposed to happen. The only reason I could find these pictures quickly is because this is the only time I have ever seen a 10 car XC Voyager, although living in the Trent Valley I have seen many West Coast ones. I showed the photos to my neighbour (a now retired XC driver) and he hadn't seen any either so it must definitely be very rare.

 

[43055]

The fact you found an example from 4 years ago doesn't negate my post. It shouldn't happen in normal service because it causes problems at the 9 car platforms. I didn't say it can't happen, just that it shouldn't and I've personally never had a ten in service, because it's rare (but clearly not unheard of).

Out of interest where are the 9 car platforms? The only places I can think of that have short platforms are stations in Cornwall which doesn't get double sets.

 

[lammergeier]

Out of interest where are the 9 car platforms? The only places I can think of that have short platforms are stations in Cornwall which doesn't get double sets.

Chesterfield and Burton are two that spring to mind, generally the Scotland trains are booked to call at Chesterfield and every other one will call at Burton, so it does cause problems if a ten car pops up.

Edit to add: The new platform at Chesterfield is ten car I believe but obviously it creates pathing issues, particularly for northbound trains, if a train not booked to use the platform has to use it.

 

[221129]

Totnes can only take an 8 car Voyager. Remember Voyagers dont have any form of SDO so if any doors of a coach hang off you need to lock them manually and if you lock both end doors of an end car then you need to lock out the coach.

 

[221129]

Out of interest where are the 9 car platforms? The only places I can think of that have short platforms are stations in Cornwall which doesn't get double sets.

Totnes, Chesterfield, Edinburgh*, Haymarket, Dawlish, Teignmouth, Leamington Spa, Bath Spa, Motherwell, Paignton, Torquay, Burton, Weston SM, Wolverhampton*

*Certain platforms that have regular booked XC services.

Most stations in Cornwall, and North of Edinburgh are too short for 8,9 or 10 cars. Also a lot of smaller non usual stops are too short for 10. As are diversion route stations.

Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff, Reading and Doncaster also have platforms that can cause issues if not signalled correctly as a 10 car.

 

[43055]

Chesterfield and Burton are two that spring to mind, generally the Scotland trains are booked to call at Chesterfield and every other one will call at Burton, so it does cause problems if a ten car pops up.

Edit to add: The new platform at Chesterfield is ten car I believe but obviously it creates pathing issues, particularly for northbound trains, if a train not booked to use the platform has to use it.

Both are local to me. Mind you Chesterfield isn't obvious because EMR call with 10 car 222's with at least one southbound journey on weekdays.

Totnes, Chesterfield, Edinburgh*, Haymarket, Dawlish, Teignmouth, Leamington Spa, Bath Spa, Motherwell, Paignton, Torquay, Burton, Weston SM, Wolverhampton*

*Certain platforms that have regular booked XC services.

Most stations in Cornwall, and North of Edinburgh are too short for 8,9 or 10 cars. Also a lot of smaller non usual stops are too short for 10. As are diversion route stations.

Bristol, Birmingham, Cardiff, Reading and Doncaster also have platforms that can cause issues if not signalled correctly as a 10 car.

Defiantly a lot more than I thought, thank you. Some are a little surprising like Haymarket and Motherwell as Avanti call at both with 221's and 390's.

 

[221129]

EMR call with 10 car 222's

That have SDO.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Manchester may lose some doubles next week onwards due to the extension and resumption of North East to South West and North East to South Coast services respectively, albeit the latter on a reduced route and frequency. At present Manc receives roughly a double every other hour, though this is an average and there can be consecutive hours of doubles and a couple of hours gap.