TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I suppose for an interim measure they’re not bad though, and as many have already said, a fair bit nicer than the existing XC botallion.
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XC Voyager Refurbishment
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They’re substantially smarter than XC’s, IMHO! And the shop is a good addition, given the usual setup on XC is for the catering to be “static” right at one end anyway.
voyagerdude220
Established Member
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I think it's a shame they won't/can't keep the Avanti ones as they are, as in my opinion I think they're great, particularly the First Class seats. Also the Standard seats in the Shop Vehicle I think are decent, although it no doubt helped having a table of four to myself, with the carriage having around half a dozen people in it.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Ah, see I really like the original First Class seats, and I think the Pleather ruined them a bit.
voyagerdude220
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Interesting!
It probably doesn't help that the Cross Country ones I can remember over the years have seemed to be in a poor condition in my opinion, very worn out and seat recline mechanisms not working properly, whereas the Avanti ones seemed in a much better condition.
occone
Member
I was delighted to be on an ex-Avanti Voyager the other day - they even run smoother and just feel so much more comfortable.
I can see why some people like Voyagers when we talk about ex-Avanti ones.
Just not XC ones which rattle, shake, smell, are dented, with peeling paint, mismatched and broken lighting, no cafe, and a trolley that occasionally exists but is confined to coach F.
Shame they will presumably all deteriorate to the standard of XC ones presuming maintenance reigimes become the XC ones.
150249
Member
They are significantly comfier. Got 221140 up to Birmingham and it was torture - one of the worst journeys I've had. However, I got 221114 on the way back down and it was so much nicer. It was still busy but everything was in a much better condition and it wasn't as cramped or as hot.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I’m planning to use a XC Free journey ticket on Aberdeen Penzance, it’d be nice to get one for that
modernrail
Established Member
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So I have always wondered why what I thought are essentially identical trains feel so different. Are they not identical or is it just bad care and bad control of the heating and that sort of thing?
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
It’s a bit of both.
The layout is different because when CrossCountry took over from Virgin CrossCountry, they removed the shop and altered the seating layout of the low density carriage (pretty much ALL table seating, with slide out table extensions) to a regular high density one.
But then CrossCountry also seemed to let the interiors get much shabbier than Virgin did. Virgin also added mood lighting and introduced leather seating in First Class about seven or eight years ago, and then when passing them over to Avanti, they received a complete repaint inside so that everything looked fresh and more contemporary.
CrossCountry still have the shabby Virgin interiors from 2002 that they never looked after as well as Virgin did anyway, no low density carriage with lots of tables, no shop, ageing ceiling paint which is starting to go beige, no mood lighting, no refreshed First Class (other than their own shabby maroon moquette which is now 15+ years old), and of course they have always run single units a lot more often than Virgin/Avanti did so have always been more likely to be rammed.
occone
Member
I genuinely think the engines either are tuned differently or have been maintained differently.
XC feels like sitting on a paint mixer. Ex-Avanti feels like any normal DMU.
XC feels like sitting on a paint mixer. Ex-Avanti feels like any normal DMU.
duffield
Established Member
Must say I've travelled on XC Voyagers a lot and never noticed this at all. Maybe it depends which coach you're in and/or where in that coach you sit? I'm (nearly) always in A, and mostly at the opposite end to the cab.
I’d say they feel better than any other DMU, they really do glide along so smoothly, even at 100+mph. A pleasure to travel in actually when they aren’t rammed.
The only problem with the XC versions is that Arriva have been custodians for 15 years, and that never ends well
Lewisham2221
Established Member
Aren't both operators fleets essentially maintained by the same people at the same depot? The main difference being that the XC units are harder worked and spend more time away from their home depot? Apologies if I've misunderstood.
Pete_uk
Established Member
That will be a great journey!
Have fun!
Halish Railway
Established Member
The Avanti units would have spent much more time dwelling at terminal stations between shorter workings, so this may be a contributing factor, as opposed to XC’s travelling for at least three hours at a time (Manchester to Bristol).
Some of XC’s Voyagers are in much better shape than others, with the experience depending on which type you’re on - The 221s have much smoother riding bogies than the 220s, how smoothly the engine is running and how well the panels are screwed together. It must also be said than some interiors are more worn than others for whatever reason.
Class 221s have heavier outside frame bogies due to the tilting equipment, while 220s have much lighter-weight B5000 inside frame bogies (these are the precursor to the Flexx Eco used on Aventras and elsewhere).
Russel
Established Member
The XC and Avanti fleets can't be compared, like for like...
The XC fleet has been worked much harder which, combined with 15 years of Arriva penny pinching has left them in a far worse condition.
You only have to look at the Pendolino fleet prior to the Avanti refurb, although dated, the Virgin interior was in a much better condition to the XC Voyagers.
The XC fleet has been worked much harder which, combined with 15 years of Arriva penny pinching has left them in a far worse condition.
You only have to look at the Pendolino fleet prior to the Avanti refurb, although dated, the Virgin interior was in a much better condition to the XC Voyagers.
Mordac
Established Member
Voyagers feel very nice when they're gliding along at high speed, it's during low speed trundles that the vibrations galore manifest and they feel cheap.
That’s a better performance than certain intercity stock 20 years their junior manages…
I don’t feel Voyagers come across as particularly cheap feeling, just rather careworn!
Discuss223
Member
That's absolutely correct, they are both maintained by Bombardier at Central Rivers depot in Barton-Under-Needwood (Staffordshire). XC units also stable and are fuelled at Laira (Devon), Craigentinny (Scotland), Tyne Yard (Tyneside), Reading Train Management Depot (Reading), Barton Hill Depot (South West England), Eastleigh Train Management Depot (Hampshire) and Longsight Depot (North West England).
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Slight polite corrections. Bpmbardier were taken over by Alstom.
The servicing depots are Long Rock (PZ) Laira (LA) Eastleigh (EH) Barton Hill (BK) Central Rivers (CZ) Crofton (XH) Holbeck (HO) Tyne yard (TY) and Craigentinny (EC)
Discuss223
Member
Thank you, how could I forget Long Rock and Crofton?! I never knew they stabled at Holbeck too. I've done some digging and apparently, Eastleigh is owned by Arriva Traincare, so that's atleast two different companies involved in the maintenance. That could explain why some issues get neglected - breakdown in communications etc.
I just travelled up from Dundee to Aberdeen on 221138 which was delayed due to the late running sleeper. I don't travel on them much so I'm probably missing the main gripes about overcrowding and catering. This service is basically a stock move to form the 08.20 Plymouth service so is a very quiet train.
I like them. They feel a very comfortable train and the gentle hum of the engines put me into a dozy state!
They definitely need a refresh though.
I like them. They feel a very comfortable train and the gentle hum of the engines put me into a dozy state!
They definitely need a refresh though.
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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At speed, if they're not packed to the gunnels, you're lucky to have a seat without a collapsed cushion and you ignore the hideous decor then they're not bad.
Not a fan then? As I said, I don't travel on them much. Just like any train that's full and standing, it can be a miserable experience. Unfortunately a shiny new interior will not cure the overcrowding if they are not prepared to add more capacity.
I just hope the shiny new interior doesn’t include too much of that nasty pink colour that’s on their mock up. Looks cheap and tacky
But they are adding more capacity. Maybe not as much as everyone would like, but it will make a difference.
Russel
Established Member
Can't say I've had a sea with a collapsed cushion in 20 years of traveling on Voyagers.
I wouldn't call the interior hideous either, dated and tired maybe.
Same here, seats are still reasonably well padded but they just look worn out, as does the lighting, the toilets and the doors. And please please please as part of the refurb can they change the internal door mechanism to stay open as long as somebody is stood close, and not close 5 seconds after you’ve pushed the button, crushing your luggage, child, granny or dog. That for me is the worse design flaw of the Voyager interior.