XX:10 Euston to Birmingham NS / XX:17 Birmingham to Euston paths no-longer ran in off-peak

[hozza94]

I have been using this route for over a year every week due to work commitments and remembered that the WCML timetable recast in Dec 2022 to change the 3tph that had one stop each at Watford/Rugby/Milton Keynes between Euston and Coventry to become 2tph non-stop London - Coventry and 1tph semi-fast.

However in the last 2 timetable changes (May 2023 and Dec 2023), AWC seems to have quietly dropped the service down to 1tph fast and 1tph semi-fast, with the aforementioned paths only used a few times a day during peak services. Is this to do with AWC not having sufficient stock/driver or is this a DfT funding reduction related? It also doesn't help the fact that the semi-fast only arrive into London 10-15 before the fast (XX:54 then XX:06), which means it's very unhelpful if you wanted to get to Euston around half-past to carry on with the onward journey.

 

[nw1]

I can see that the reduction from 20-min to 30-min makes sense (for one thing, it makes planning the timetable much easier if everything else is half-hourly, the 20-min pattern forced some messy irregularities on local services) but it seems crazy not to run an even-interval half hourly service given that has been the baseline in modern times. The even-interval 30-min service was present as long ago as 1978 and presumably since electrification.

I suppose it's all at the behest of the DFT.

 

[OscarH]

As I recall the aim is go back to 3tph, 2 fast and the semifast, and I think there's a good chance that's why they haven't retimed it while it's down to two

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As I recall the aim is go back to 3tph, 2 fast and the semifast, and I think there's a good chance that's why they haven't retimed it while it's down to two

2 fast Pendolinos and a sort of stopping Hitachi.

 

[Boodiggy]

I didn’t see the second fast one back in for the June 1st Timetable change.
The Euston - New St / New St - Euston trains seem unchanged from the current timetable.

 

[hexagon789]

I didn’t see the second fast one back in for the June 1st Timetable change.
The Euston - New St / New St - Euston trains seem unchanged from the current timetable.

Sunday June 2nd, but I don't believe it's publically viewable anywhere yet, unless you've preview access of some sort - I don't think it's quite at the finalisation date yet either, that's late February.

My understanding though is that the 3tph, 1/2 hourly fast and and hourly semi-fast, are dependent on the 807s being in service as the semi-fast requires them.

 

[Boodiggy]

Sunday June 2nd, but I don't believe it's publically viewable anywhere yet, unless you've preview access of some sort - I don't think it's quite at the finalisation date yet either, that's late February.

My understanding though is that the 3tph, 1/2 hourly fast and and hourly semi-fast, are dependent on the 807s being in service as the semi-fast requires them.

Apologies on the date.
It has been finalised now for AWC and I saw this at a meeting last week - noting no additional Birmingham or Liverpool trains were included.

 

[hexagon789]

Apologies on the date.
It has been finalised now for AWC and I saw this at a meeting last week - noting no additional Birmingham or Liverpool trains were included.

Hmm, the few snippets I've had suggest a very limited timetable 'change' across the country, rather more happening in December I understand.

 

[nw1]

Hmm, the few snippets I've had suggest a very limited timetable 'change' across the country, rather more happening in December I understand.

Interesting, the complete opposite of the classic pattern when May was always "the big one" and the late Sep/early Oct timetable (as was) only had minor tweaks. Only when a significant project (such as electrification) was completed would anything interesting happen in autumn, aside from the end of summer dated services. Indeed, in the days when I bought a paper copy of the GBPTT, I'd only get the May one and not bother with the Sep/Oct edition.

Significant changes to diagramming (in my neck of the woods, i.e. Southern Region/NSE third-rail EMUs) would also only happen in May, outside of notable events such as the East Grinstead electrification.

As an aside, June 2 is really, really late. I realise we are prone to some unseasonal weather these days, but few would place June 1 in the "winter" period by any stretch of the imagination.

December is a strange time to change, being right in the middle of the winter season. Always thought early autumn made more sense, as it marked the change from summer to rest-of-year, in the same way that May marks the start of the high summer season.

Sunday June 2nd, but I don't believe it's publically viewable anywhere yet, unless you've preview access of some sort - I don't think it's quite at the finalisation date yet either, that's late February.

My understanding though is that the 3tph, 1/2 hourly fast and and hourly semi-fast, are dependent on the 807s being in service as the semi-fast requires them.

Are there not Pendolinos that can run the semi-fast in the meantime?

Presumably with a less-frequent timetable across the board on the WCML compared to pre-Covid, there must be available Pendolinos to run the 2 fast and 1 semi-fast.

 

[The Planner]

December has been the big change dates for as long as I remember. Its June this year as a fall out of the move to three timetables that got blocked.

 

[43074]

As an aside, June 2 is really, really late. I realise we are prone to some unseasonal weather these days, but few would place June 1 in the "winter" period by any stretch of the imagination.

Having the Summer change in June is a hangover from the proposal to have timetable changes in June and October (with a opportunity for TOCs to tweak things in February) each year - June 2024 was intended to be the pivot to the "new" timetable change dates but in the event ORR ruled against it because of objections from freight operators, as I understand it.

 

[nw1]

December has been the big change dates for as long as I remember. Its June this year as a fall out of the move to three timetables that got blocked.

I am thinking more of the 80s and 90s to be fair, when May was generally the big one. Certainly any big changes on the SWD / NSE / SWT always took place in May in that era.
My brain is still hard-wired to expect the big change in May (or June, this year) even now!

 

[Peter0124]

Apologies on the date.
It has been finalised now for AWC and I saw this at a meeting last week - noting no additional Birmingham or Liverpool trains were included.

Are the last remaining Euston - Birmingham - Glasgow trains reinstated, replacing the current Blackpools? It's 1tp4h during daytime from Glasgow to Birmingham when it used to be 1tp2h all day

 

[hexagon789]

Interesting, the complete opposite of the classic pattern when May was always "the big one" and the late Sep/early Oct timetable (as was) only had minor tweaks. Only when a significant project (such as electrification) was completed would anything interesting happen in autumn, aside from the end of summer dated services. Indeed, in the days when I bought a paper copy of the GBPTT, I'd only get the May one and not bother with the Sep/Oct edition.

I believe December has been the 'big' change ever since the GBTT dates were synchronised with those of mainland Europe.

Are there not Pendolinos that can run the semi-fast in the meantime?

A very fair point, my memory may be wrong on the matter.

Are the last remaining Euston - Birmingham - Glasgow trains reinstated, replacing the current Blackpools? It's 1tp4h during daytime from Glasgow to Birmingham when it used to be 1tp2h all day

I doubt it'll be June, if it happens at all this year (or indeed ever in the next few years) - my money's on December.