Yellow front ends on new stock

[CosherB]

Mod Note: Split from this thread.

It's just asking for a yellow end..

Well that's not going to happen!

 

[XCTurbostar]

Well that's not going to happen!

Looks like ive got a bite with that comment! When I get a moment, Ill Photoshop a Yellow End and I guarantee it will improve it.

 

[CosherB]

Looks like ive got a bite with that comment! When I get a moment, Ill Photoshop a Yellow End and I guarantee it will improve it.

Yellow is soooooo yesterday darling!

 

[XCTurbostar]

Yellow is soooooo yesterday darling!

You say that but, Northern.. and Thameslink... and ScotRail.. and VTEC/GWR.. have yellow ends with compliant lights. Need I go on?

 

[CosherB]

You say that but, Northern.. and Thameslink... and ScotRail.. and VTEC/GWR.. have yellow ends with compliant lights. Need I go on?

I'd rather you didn't.

 

[43096]

You say that but, Northern.. and Thameslink... and ScotRail.. and VTEC/GWR.. have yellow ends with compliant lights. Need I go on?

What stock does VTEC have with compliant lights?

 

[D365]

What stock does VTEC have with compliant lights?

Not in service yet, but there will be the IEP units.

 

[matt47522]

I think the word I'm looking for is.. dull. It's just asking for a yellow end..

I agree.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I agree.

It has much more character in these images. I think the yellow compliments the livery very well.

 

[CosherB]

It has much more character in these images. I think the yellow compliments the livery very well.

Well that's your opinion - I'd like to know how a yellow warning panel adds 'character'?

Personally, yellow or no yellow, I couldn't care less. But it doesn't change the fact that SWR Aventras won't be getting a 'characterful' front!

 

[AM9]

You say that but, Northern.. and Thameslink... and ScotRail.. and VTEC/GWR.. have yellow ends with compliant lights. Need I go on?

Weren't the class 700s fixed (apart from the vinyl logos of course) before the rules were changed. What would be hazardous is a mix of the same class but with and without yellow panels, especially on Thameslink N where most of the trains would be the same class.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree.

It's still a weird shape, but the second of those looks best to me (small yellow panel).

 

[XCTurbostar]

Well that's your opinion - I'd like to know how a yellow warning panel adds 'character'?

Personally, yellow or no yellow, I couldn't care less. But it doesn't change the fact that SWR Aventras won't be getting a 'characterful' front!

It is my opinion and I think that the yellow panel makes it appear more inviting and friendly. In fact, I think anything is better than black.

By the time they're introduced the remaining fleet will be operating entirely with yellow panels and as a result SWR may decide to introduce a fleet which has all yellow panels for consistency.

During the time the RSSB standard was being discussed I disputed the move away from yellow fronts. I still to this date do not understand why an approach of Bright Lights + Yellow Front was not adopted. Surely you'll agree with me that this is the best scenario.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[CosherB]

During the time the RSSB standard was being discussed I disputed the move away from yellow fronts. I still to this date do not understand why an approach of Bright Lights + Yellow Front was not adopted. Surely you'll agree with me that this is the best scenario.

No, I don't agree. I don't, however, believe my opinion counts for anything against what the RSSB has stipulated, as I am not a Subject Matter Expert.

The rest of the world seems to cope with bright lights and no yellow, so why should the UK be considered a special case, or somehow know better?

 

[XCTurbostar]

No, I don't agree. I don't, however, believe my opinion counts for anything against what the RSSB has stipulated, as I am not a Subject Matter Expert.

The rest of the world seems to cope with bright lights and no yellow, so why should the UK be considered a special case, or somehow know better?

I think the question you should be asking is why did they not adopt the yellow panel in addition to bright lights elsewhere.. This railway is one of the most safest in the world, why would we remove a safety feature which is serving a purpose as well as having brighter headlights. This has to be a backstep.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's often bright colours elsewhere, e.g. DB red with the reflective white stripes and DB logo. Red is very common. Black isn't.

 

[CosherB]

I think the question you should be asking is why did they not adopt the yellow panel in addition to bright lights elsewhere.. This railway is one of the most safest in the world, why would we remove a safety feature which is serving a purpose as well as having brighter headlights. This has to be a backstep.

Thanks,
Ross

So what part of Railway Group Standard GM/RT2131 do you dispute?

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131%20Iss%201.pdf

I have to say that your comment above does come across as a bit 'Jonny English' lecturing the rest of the world on this topic. I agree that we have one of the safest railways in the world, however, I don't believe the stipulations under the new regulations are a backward step. Can you imagine what would happen under case law if an accident happened and it was proven that the regulations were to blame? The RSSB are not in the business to make the railways less safe.

 

[XCTurbostar]

So what part of Railway Group Standard GM/RT2131 do you dispute?

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131%20Iss%201.pdf

I have to say that your comment above does come across as a bit 'Jonny English' lecturing the rest of the world on this topic. I agree that we have one of the safest railways in the world, however, I don't believe the stipulations under the new regulations are a backward step. Can you imagine what would happen under case law if an accident happened and it was proven that the regulations were to blame? The RSSB are not in the business to make the railways less safe.

I disputed section 3.9 and the move away from a yellow end requirement. In a situation when none of the headlights work on a train with a front that blended into the environment in a daytime environment it could (although unlikely) lead to a track worker incident.

Not at all. I am very passionate about the safety of mine and my colleagues and strive for answers about why this move has occurred.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[sjoh]

In fairness, if the lights don't work the train shouldn't be moving. If a track worker walks into a stationary train, well...

But, I do agree that black is aesthetically displeasing, and in this particular case, I think you're right in that a yellow front would actually look pretty good. However, in cases like this I think we need to be aware of negative bias - we are all used to seeing yellow ends, and thus anything different is very likely to look very strange and jarring at first.

 

[Domh245]

I disputed section 3.9 and the move away from a yellow end requirement. In a situation when none of the headlights work on a train with a front that blended into the environment in a daytime environment it could (although unlikely) lead to a track worker incident.

Not at all. I am very passionate about the safety of mine and my colleagues and strive for answers about why this move has occurred.

Thanks,
Ross

If a train had no headlights working on the leading cab, it'd be running at reduced speed to the nearest depot to get fixed! The yellow panel is completely unnecessary given the brightness of the current generation of lights. If you look at any train with the latest headlights and a yellow panel (eg the SWT 456s or the 700s), what is it that you see first? In my experience, it has always been the headlights - even in bright sunlight.

I would agree however, that the SWR livery does look a little odd on these units - the yellow panels that matt47522 has done make it look a lot better. But then again, when the first render of the new livery on a 444 was revealed, my reaction was to say tha1t it was hideous, but once applied to the train, I didn't think it looked too bad.

 

[sjoh]

Weren't the class 700s fixed (apart from the vinyl logos of course) before the rules were changed. What would be hazardous is a mix of the same class but with and without yellow panels, especially on Thameslink N where most of the trains would be the same class.

I'm a little curious here as to why a mix of the same class with and without panels would be any more dangerous than a mix of two different classes with and without panels.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Made some more images with Yellow Fronts. Which is your favourite?

Thanks,
Ross

 

[43096]

Made some more images with Yellow Fronts. Which is your favourite?

Thanks,
Ross

Bottom left works best for me.

Something about that front end that reminds me of CD's Skoda build 380s: http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/skoda-380-002-cd-am-701438.jpg

 

[AM9]

I'm a little curious here as to why a mix of the same class with and without panels would be any more dangerous than a mix of two different classes with and without panels.

Thameslink is a very intensive service so trackworkers would benefit from consistency of appearance. The odd freight, (assuming the slow lines) would be easier to manage.
Just why would anybody (apart from train spotters) want a mix of trains with and without yellow painted fronts on a common fleet of trains?

 

[AM9]

Made some more images with Yellow Fronts. Which is your favourite?

Thanks,
Ross

None. I prefer the livery shown in post #171.

 

[3141]

Made some more images with Yellow Fronts. Which is your favourite?

Thanks,
Ross

The one where the yellow continues up the side of the screen. It brightens up the otherwise dull and uninspired dark paint they've applied to the ends of the train.

 

[swt_passenger]

Everyone, do we really have to have a few pages of thread drift about yellow end policy EVERY time another type of new stock appears without it in PR photos?

I get all the views from rail staff, but nothing's now likely to change no matter how many times objections get posted. RSSB have made their decision, following a consultation, so let's move on eh?

 

[47802]

Everyone, do we really have to have a few pages of thread drift about yellow end policy EVERY time another type of new stock appears without it in PR photos?

I get all the views from rail staff, but nothing's now likely to change no matter how many times objections get posted. RSSB have made their decision, following a consultation, so let's move on eh?

Seconded most other counties seem to manage without Yellow Ends on their trains so lets call it a day arguing about it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Made some more images with Yellow Fronts. Which is your favourite?

Thanks,
Ross

Having seen all four, I actually prefer the official one without yellow - but I do think it would be better with the cabside blue* taking place of the black...



*Or whatever the shade is officially called.

 

[43096]

So what part of Railway Group Standard GM/RT2131 do you dispute?

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131%20Iss%201.pdf

I have to say that your comment above does come across as a bit 'Jonny English' lecturing the rest of the world on this topic. I agree that we have one of the safest railways in the world, however, I don't believe the stipulations under the new regulations are a backward step. Can you imagine what would happen under case law if an accident happened and it was proven that the regulations were to blame? The RSSB are not in the business to make the railways less safe.

Not really sure how something like the SWR Aventra is that different to this in terms of front end colours: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/601/32467502551_35fc65ce1f_b.jpg

Don't seem to hear of hordes of Swiss track workers being bowled over by these locos....