Yellow-fronted trains

[bengley]

Are trains now required to have a yellow livery at the front by some sort of safety law? They all have it.

 

[37401]

Yup its a safty thing ALL trains operating in the UK (cept steamers) have to have a yellow frount

 

[GB]

All trains on the national rail network are required to have a yellow warning panel at the front that conforms to specfic dimensions.

 

[EM2]

And have had them for over forty years!

 

[bengley]

Thanks for answering

 

[Demps]

Im sure the Health and safety law deemed it necessary in 1964 if i remember correctly. There is a certain proportion which is needed to be yellow for allowance onto the UK network, Steamers are exeptions.

 

[MCR247]

Yup its a safty thing ALL trains operating in the UK (cept steamers) have to have a yellow frount

No they dont, its just on the NR network, preserved trains (diesels) dont have to

 

[37401]

No they dont, its just on the NR network, preserved trains (diesels) dont have to

oh yeah i know should of mentioned all Mainline reg. trains

 

[driver9000]

This may be changing in the near future. There has been a study into track worker behaviour and findings are that they identify trains by the headlight rather than a yellow panel, especially as modern lights are much brighter. The report is yet to be sent to RSSB but it will lean toward abandoning the yellow and amending the RGS once rules are decided and written - things like banning signalling colours or potentially dazzling schemes such as metallic paints, advertising wont be allowed either.

 

[jopsuk]

No they dont, its just on the NR network, preserved trains (diesels) dont have to

And of course Underground, DLR etc don't have yellow ends.

 

[GWRtom]

i belive the miminal size of the yellow area is 1 metre by 1 metre

 

[Oracle]

I seem to recall that the Underground, which of course works over NR-signalled tracks, and on the Met, with NR trains having running powers, are allowed to have red front ends. The exception is of course L12, SARAH SIDDONS, that seems to have been given dispensation when running on the Third Rail.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Even if the value (additional to headlights) is disputed, I don't see the point in removing them now they're there... a belt and braces attitude to safety is no bad thing.

 

[Oswyntail]

IIRC, the yellow areas were introduced on non-steamers because they were so quiet and could creep up on track workers unnoticed. Steam engines are noisy, clanky things (except in certain areas of the literature, where they can sneak up behind people and "Wheesh" them loudly. It was first introduced on shunters (in yellow and black chevrons) and after a few years on mainliners, first as a relatively small panel, and then (when BR blue came in ie about 1964) over the full end.

 

[Phoenix]

I heard a while ago that certain things such as steamers and very old traction retain Grandfather rights so do not have to have full yellows as it would be unoriginal and the presence of such as non-standard locomotive etc would be easily noted.

This applies to all steam engines and for a Brief period the Metropolitan locomotive 'Sarah Siddons' which ended with mainline career ending.

Honestly I would like to see the rules be made a little more flexible so one or two special locomotives out there can keep their old look (pre yellow period) such as 86's 37's and 20's.

 

[33056]

This may be changing in the near future. There has been a study into track worker behaviour and findings are that they identify trains by the headlight rather than a yellow panel, especially as modern lights are much brighter. The report is yet to be sent to RSSB but it will lean toward abandoning the yellow and amending the RGS once rules are decided and written - things like banning signalling colours or potentially dazzling schemes such as metallic paints, advertising wont be allowed either.

About time too; the rest of Europe seem to manage without yellow ends and, where they do appear, it is generally more to do with livery design than visibility. Can't see what they have against advertising liveries though, I have seen some nice ones which add interest but, having said that, some are just awful .

Interesting about the colours though, how does DB Schenker livery stand regarding red signals? Also, does 67029 count as being "metallic"!

 

[driver9000]

schemes that could potentially alter the shape of the driving cab such as advertising or wavy lines wont be allowed to prevent trains being 'disguised' by softening the outline to make it stand out less. Its not to make them attractive or add interest its so as the p/way gangs can spot the trains.

Companies that currently use red/green on the fronts of their trains would need alter their livery to lose red/green from the fronts when/if yellow is abandoned. Similar with metallic silver trains/locos they wont be permitted either nor will reflective surfaces as these could dazzle drivers. As all liveries on the UK system are based around a yellow warning panel a lot of livery changes would be needed to comply so I doubt there would be paintbrushes out the night of the abandonment the yellow panel will here for a long time yet either mandatory or not! As yet the rules havent been written or decided on but the notice I was reading had those as a minimum that will be written into them and then sent to RGS for verification and a change to the standards.

One thing the abandoment of yellow warning panels will bring will be a full mandatory fitment of HiD headlights, possibly including retro fitting roof markers to older trains.

Personally Im against this change as I feel it will make trains stand out a lot less than they currently do, although the panel has shrunk over the years its still a good way to identify a train on the horizon especially ones with older filament bulb headlamps. I find it strange to think that the 'belt and braces' attitude has been pushed aside over some EU letter on interoperability, but whats new there.....

 

[Bastiaan]

About time too; the rest of Europe seem to manage without yellow ends

Except for the Netherlands, where they "invented" the yellow (or white) warning panel just a couple of years ago. Since then every train, except historic stock, should have a minimum of 1 square metre white at the front. Yellow is also allowed, because of course the main colour of the Dutch Railways is yellow ... otherwise the Dutch Railways had to fit almost every train with a piece of white at the front ...

And indeed, the Germans, Swiss, French, etc. seem to be okay with fronts of trains having any colour, even when it's black ...

 

[33056]

Ah yes, I was forgetting about the Netherlands as a lot of your stuff is yellow anyway!

 

[j0hn0]

correct, but Thalys and ICE have run through holland for ages and aren't yellow.

It is such an archaic safety measure, surely white is more visible and it also ruins the look of every single train in the UK except the javelins because blue goes with yellow, which was why at the time GNER livery looked very good.

 

[EM2]

correct, but Thalys and ICE have run through holland for ages and aren't yellow.

It is such an archaic safety measure, surely white is more visible and it also ruins the look of every single train in the UK except the javelins because blue goes with yellow, which was why at the time GNER livery looked very good.

Er, for a long time, all trains in the UK *were* blue...

 

[mallard]

correct, but Thalys and ICE have run through holland for ages and aren't yellow.

It is such an archaic safety measure, surely white is more visible and it also ruins the look of every single train in the UK except the javelins because blue goes with yellow, which was why at the time GNER livery looked very good.

They're not the only trains that look good with a yellow front. It works especially well with the Stagecoach (SWT/EMT) liveries, the Networkers (especially Chiltern's) and Eurostars.

Additionally, I think the yellow fronts give a certain amount of unique identity to trains in the UK, something that distinguishes them from those in Europe and elsewhere.

 

[j0hn0]

They're not the only trains that look good with a yellow front. It works especially well with the Stagecoach (SWT/EMT) liveries, the Networkers (especially Chiltern's) and Eurostars.

Additionally, I think the yellow fronts give a certain amount of unique identity to trains in the UK, something that distinguishes them from those in Europe and elsewhere.

I disagree.

they look cheap, dated, and stuck in the 80's. perhaps only stagecoach can maybe pass it off, but they've still got dark blue, light blue, pink and yellow.

I mean come on.

Yes beauty, beholder etc,

but virgins interpretation of it ruins the whole look of the pendo. Ooh smiling train!!! how patronising

 

[SouthernCrescent]

The yellow front ends can look good on some traction if applied tastefully, but it would be nice to have the option where it doesn't suit. I can't think of any other country with this rule. But what really gets me is the different coloured doors on rolling stock, it just ruined the GNER livery in my oppinion when those red doors appeared. What's wrong with someone helping the passenger on board?? Especially on an Intercity train with ample station and on train staff.

 

[MCR247]

So on there is ample station staff at stations which the Highland Cheftian serves, even on Sundays?

 

[EM2]

But what really gets me is the different coloured doors on rolling stock, it just ruined the GNER livery in my oppinion when those red doors appeared. What's wrong with someone helping the passenger on board?? Especially on an Intercity train with ample station and on train staff.

Because a lot of visually impaired passengers want to be as independent as possible and would prefer to be able to get themselves onto the train.
That's what disability legislation is for, to put things on more of an equal footing.

 

[starrymarkb]

You'll find Ireland and Belguim also have Yellow Ends. There is also a requirement for chevrons in france (ignored by SNCF but enforced for open access)

As for contrasting doors, RailJet, DB Regio and IE seem to think they are a good idea

 

[WillPS]

I think contrasting passenger doors are a great idea. On the Meridians, for example, the non-passenger doors are clearly separated.

 

[BlythPower]

Yellow ends in Hungary too...

 

[The_Stig]

On a similar note and slightly off topic, why do trains have a thin orange stripe at the top of the TOC livery?

I noticed this years ago on the SPT livery's but assumed that it was just a line that was used to mask off an area for the Carmine and cream, however on a recent trip to Glasgow central Scottm and myself noticed it was on the Pendolinos as well.

Anyone know why?