• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Your preferred railway seat type

Preference

  • Hard seats, e.g. Grammer IC3000 (GWR HST), Grammer E3000 (Desiro), ironing board etc

    Votes: 58 36.7%
  • Bouncy sprung seats, e.g. Mk1 stock, IC70 etc

    Votes: 100 63.3%

  • Total voters
    158
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,460
Location
Exeter
I like Grammer IC3000 and E3000, but think the fainsa ironing board (and all derivatives) is the worst seat ever designed.

But I also hate IC70, which are also very uncomfortable.

So I can't really choose an option. I wouldn't say either Grammer is particularly hard though.
 

urpert

Member
Joined
1 Dec 2015
Messages
1,164
Location
Essendine or between Étaples and Rang-du-Fliers
For me (at 6’1) it’s more about the height than the softness. Anything made before about 2000 is uncomfortably low (and in the case of the Networker seat I’m currently sitting in, probably dangerous to my neck in case of sudden acceleration).
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,191
Location
St Albans
For me (at 6’1) it’s more about the height than the softness. Anything made before about 2000 is uncomfortably low (and in the case of the Networker seat I’m currently sitting in, probably dangerous to my neck in case of sudden acceleration).

Similarly for me at the same height, it's head and neck support so most modern transverse seating offers such safety. That support also needs to extend all down the spine so a profile encouraging a good posture, particularly in the lumbar region is preferable. As a consequence, so-called 'luxury' seating with soft padding fails to provide support especially when worn by heavy use. Such heavy use isn't compatible with the majority of past (say BR MKI & II era) sprung designs. Even later MKI SR EMUs with additional foam padding were fine when outshopped but with such heavy use, rapidly became very uncomfortable for longer journeys.
It's notable that most chronic back pain originates from poor posture so prolonged enforced sitting should address that.
 

mushroomchow

Member
Joined
14 Feb 2017
Messages
455
Location
Where HSTs Still Scream. Kind of.
I can't look past Mk. 1 seats for comfort historically speaking, but they're not exactly current.

Of seats available on services today, I'd say Grammers, provided they're not packed together in a knee-crushing fashion.

This poll is too broad - there's more to a seat than whether it's hard or springy that dictates passenger comfort - you can't bundle a well-designed seat like a Grammer in with an "ironing board" for example. Ergonomics matter a lot more with "hard" seats than "springy" ones that suck you up like an affectionate hoover.
 

class387

Established Member
Joined
9 Oct 2015
Messages
1,525
Ergonomics matter a lot more with "hard" seats than "springy" ones that suck you up like an affectionate hoover.
I far prefer firm seats but I definitely agree with this. The Grammer seats and the 'ironing board' Fainsa, which I like a lot, are more ergonomically designed than the Class 800 Fainsa, which I find even more uncomfortable than the also ergonomically poor IC70, the reason for that being that the excess padding cushions you fron the bad design of the seat itself.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I far prefer firm seats but I definitely agree with this. The Grammer seats and the 'ironing board' Fainsa, which I like a lot, are more ergonomically designed than the Class 800 Fainsa, which I find even more uncomfortable than the also ergonomically poor IC70, the reason for that being that the excess padding cushions you fron the bad design of the seat itself.

Agreed. FWIW I did it like this to get a quick "foam vs. sprung" view - listing all the types out would have taken forever. Therefore assume your preference of each.
 

EssexGonzo

Member
Joined
9 May 2012
Messages
636
Height, legroom (I'm 6'2") and lumbar support are my hot buttons. Get them right and I don't care about the sprung or foam bases.
 

brel york

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2011
Messages
653
Location
the plant
What people tend to forget is that under British rail coaching stock was overhauled to a more ridged timetable, the standard of seating overhaul was much higher , some of the workmanship I’ve witnessed is amateur at best ,
All Mk1 stock had spring units , the Mk2 integrals (as we knew them ) started life with moulder foam over Pirelli webbing but this changed to spring units over time , the ic70 had spring units as did the Mk2 compartment stock ,
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,063
Mark 1 seats for me 100%. Just sink in and relax.

With 'modern' seating my main issues are legroom and width (or rather the lack of it with 3+2 seating).
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,191
Location
St Albans
Mark 1 seats for me 100%. Just sink in and relax.

With 'modern' seating my main issues are legroom and width (or rather the lack of it with 3+2 seating).

That's not really answering the question. 3+2 seating was around in MKI days. There are plenty of new trains with normal width 2+2 seating, from class 387s to class 800s. Legroom like 3+2 arrangements, is more a matter of the volumes of passengers requiring seats, particularly where the infrastructure prevents just running more and/or longer trains in service.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,182
Location
Fenny Stratford
can i have a hard but bouncy seat? What about soft yet firm? ;)

I really like the ones on the XC HST and on the VTEC fleet. I detest the Pendolino and Voyager seats.
 

superkev

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2015
Messages
2,682
Location
west yorkshire
I used to like the seats fitted to the original MK2 coaches with the 'winged' headrests to test your head on.
As for modern seats to me it's all about legroom. No point in a comfy seat when your wedged to the one in front. The population is getting taller, -1" per genearation I believe.
K
 

brel york

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2011
Messages
653
Location
the plant
I used to like the seats fitted to the original MK2 coaches with the 'winged' headrests to test your head on.
As for modern seats to me it's all about legroom. No point in a comfy seat when your wedged to the one in front. The population is getting taller, -1" per genearation I believe.
K
We knew them as integral seats ,
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I really dislike those Mk2 ones, the wings were too low down forcing me to slouch, same as the Class 800 seats.

The modernised version using an IC70 cushion and back on the Mk2 frame were decent, though.
 

KevinTurvey

Member
Joined
9 Oct 2016
Messages
205
As a youngster I used to like the early Mk2s as you could lift up and look under the sea cushions to see if any coins had dropped out of peoples pockets, and they often had! A nice supplementary pocket money source.

Seriously though sprung seats for me. I think the reason I like Mk1 seats as well is the heaters underneath, which give a nice cosy warmth with a fresh air flow at head level.
 

backontrack

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,383
Location
The UK
Definitely not the type you get on Virgin Trains! A ) shape is not good for resting your head.
 
Last edited:

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,415
Location
Farnham
I don’t like either! I like the Mallard seats in Standard, and the GWR HST and once again Mallard seats in First.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
I really like the Grammer seating because it gives me a lot of support (I'm 6ft 3).
I don't mind the fainsa seats, but my second favourite type of seat are the chapman seats (EMT 153/6s, GWR & ATW 150/2s etc) which give a good compromise over support and softness.

Since moving to the East Midlands I've grown to the seats in the EMT HSTS.
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
4,196
Location
County Durham
I mainly prefer the hard seats. I like the Ironing Boards, the Grammer seats (both the IC3000s and the desiro ones) and the bench seats used on the 142s, but I also like the IC70s. I'm not particularly keen on the Mallard standard class seats (the first class ones are fine though), the seats on the Pendolinos/Voyagers, or the seats used on the 180s.
 

Halish Railway

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
1,692
Location
West Yorkshire / Birmingham
Personally, I quite like the IC70 seats as they are a good remenant of BR operated HST's *Prepares to be nuked*. The issue is that they are on EMT HST's with short-swing suspensions which makes the ride horrible - It certainly wakes you up at 7 in the morning in Thackley Tunnel.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,063
As a youngster I used to like the early Mk2s as you could lift up and look under the sea cushions to see if any coins had dropped out of peoples pockets, and they often had! A nice supplementary pocket money source.

Seriously though sprung seats for me. I think the reason I like Mk1 seats as well is the heaters underneath, which give a nice cosy warmth with a fresh air flow at head level.
You could also lift up one of the cushions and angle it against the arm rest to act as a pillow when doing an overnight - that's if you had a double seat to yourself.
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,320
Personally, the last really comfortable UK coach seats were in those designed by Messrs Bulleid, Collett & Hawksworth. I am certainly not fat, but many "modern" seats are too narrow, and if anyone is sitting in the next seat (even in 2+2), your arms & shoulders are jammed against each other. A lot of seats are also too low - uncomfortable if you have long legs.
 

Mathew S

Established Member
Joined
7 Aug 2017
Messages
2,167
Of the seats I regularly use (Northern stuff, TPE 185s & 350s, VTWC Pendolino and Voyager) the 185s and VTWC stock are what I find most comfortable by some margin.
The old-style soft, sprung, seats don't cope with the use they get in this region and end up rock hard and horribly uncomfortable anyway.
 

cjmillsnun

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2011
Messages
3,254
BR Era seats for me. I like Mk1 and IC70s, and loved the type of seats fitted in the 442s in the NSE/SWT era. They were just spot on for my height and build.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top