The future of seating on UK rail network

[Dave1987]

I know some forum members will immediately say “oh no not another thread on seats”. You are perfectly welcome to press your back button on your browser or exit your web browser and not contribute to this thread.

Anyway I have recently had my first experience on the new 345 trains on CrossRail/TFL Rail. They have good and bad points but with specific reference to the seats WOW they are hard. Literally no give what so ever. Was wondering to myself at the time which quarry got the order for a few thousand bits of granite to be carved into seats. Is this the future of rail travel in the UK? I’ve seen a common theme on new trains recently that the usual comments include “rock hard seats”. Why? Is the DFT deliberately trying to make train travel in the UK uncomfortable? Chiltern have some lovely comfortable, supportive seats on their trains.

 

[D365]

Cushioned seats are less hygenic and harder to clean. For one thing, I am absolutely not a fan of the original seating in the Mk3 derivative EMUs.

 

[xotGD]

It's all a cunning plan to make standing passengers less envious of those with seats.

May I suggest carrying a cushion?

 

[BurtonM]

What's better for the railway isn't necessarily better for passengers... I have a slightly iffy back and too hard/soft seats really mess with it.

 

[fowler9]

Seats should be replaced with spikes. (Got that idea off Blackadder).

 

[bastien]

Where do I vote for a separate "Seating" sub-forum?

 

[ooo]

Part of the problem with seating is that people have very different opinions on it meaning it is hard to find something that works for everyone

 

[Bald Rick]

Pretty much all seats soften with use (and not just on trains!); comparing a brand new seat in a 345 to, say, a 38 year old seat in a 315 is not a straight comparison.

In any event, as others have said, it is a matter of opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Part of the problem with seating is that people have very different opinions on it meaning it is hard to find something that works for everyone

Indeed. And it also shifts over time - I recall the Grammer IC3000 (a la GWR HST among others), now probably the favourite seat of the forum, being derided as "tombstone" seating not that long ago.

 

[brel york]

I love seats , I’ve removed virtually every BR type of seat

 

[Mugby]

I believe that back in the days of the Mk.1s and first generation DMUs etc. BR used seating which employed proper springs, same as the mattress on your bed, and the padding was horsehair, hence the comfort. Most seating of today consists of rather thin squabs formed out of very had foam rubber with loose covers, presumably for easier removal and cleaning. Perhaps someone will know if BR were moving towards this in their latter days?

Compare the depth of the cushions on EMT's HSTs with their original seating and those of a Voyager or Meridian!

 

[physics34]

Part of the problem with seating is that people have very different opinions on it meaning it is hard to find something that works for everyone

you say that but there will a majority who would prefer seating that is softer than we are getting on 700s and on the 345s. Its just that no one will listen. Its clear that its all about getting the cheapest seating possible

Also ive very rarely heard any complaints about "softer" seating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it a majority? Let's have a poll.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/your-preferred-railway-seat-type.158076/

 

[Mikey C]

The modern hard foam seats do slightly soften with age.

A related example is the seats on the refurbished 95 Underground stock which when new seemed really hard, but now after 2 years seem ok. Unless it's because my bottom has adapted of course

 

[brel york]

All Mk1 stock had spring units , mk2 integrals started life with moulder foam over Pirelli webbing but these later became spring units , the mk2f /3/3a used ic70 seats which had spring units , mk3B used ic80 seats (apt derived)
The original pep derived stock seating was very cheap and cheerful , 317 outer suburban, 318 and 150/1 had spring units while the original 150/2 sprinter seats had a suspension unit over a steel frame with a foam moulding on top , these have since been replaced with ‘zig zag ‘springs which are more at home on house furniture! 319 320 and 321 has solid foam on plywood bases
Seats become worn very quickly and they appear to not get retrimmed as often as in BR days

 

[Hadders]

If you think the seats on a 345 are bad then try a 700.....

 

[Pete_uk]

Metal benches

 

[mrcheek]

Seats should be replaced with spikes. (Got that idea off Blackadder).

wouldnt so many of those be an extravagance?

 

[geoffk]

It's all a cunning plan to make standing passengers less envious of those with seats.

May I suggest carrying a cushion?

I was thinking for a while about taking a cushion but i doubt if anyone in the rail industry would get the message. Train seats are generally too hard, too narrow, too close together, the backs are too high and the seats often don't line up with the windows. Similar comments apply to bus and tram seats but you don't usually spend so long in those.

 

[43096]

Seats should be replaced with spikes. (Got that idea off Blackadder).

Only one spike, though. Two would be an extravagance.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps someone will know if BR were moving towards this in their latter days?

If you compare the seating on a phase 1 CIG built for the Brighton line in 1964 with highly sprung Mk1 cushions, to a 1970 phase 2 CIG built for the Portsmouth line with thinner foam covered seats, its clear what the direction of travel was.

The comparison between a 1951 EPB and a 1990 Networker is even starker !

 

[Dave1987]

Well if this is the future of rail travel then I can foresee people ditching train travel especially for leisure journeys. You can say it’s a matter of opinion etc all you like but rock hard seats are not comfortable and on long journeys you will get very uncomfortable.

 

[47802]

Well if this is the future of rail travel then I can foresee people ditching train travel especially for leisure journeys. You can say it’s a matter of opinion etc all you like but rock hard seats are not comfortable and on long journeys you will get very uncomfortable.

Well its just tough luck for you isn't it really, looks like hard seats are here to stay along with your other pet hate Bi-mode trains.

 

[yorksrob]

Well its just tough luck for you isn't it really, looks like hard seats are here to stay along with your other pet hate Bi-mode trains.

It'll be tough luck for the railway when it's trying to compete with driverless cars.

 

[AM9]

It'll be tough luck for the railway when it's trying to compete with driverless cars.

I doubt that seating type would make that much difference if there is a trend towards driverless queueing on roads.

 

[yorksrob]

I doubt that seating type would make that much difference if there is a trend towards driverless queueing on roads.

I believe that comfort in general might be a factor.

Certainly ironing boards will probably push people towards other modes of transport.

 

[tsr]

The "ease of cleaning" idea is a bit of a non-argument. Many modern trains are designed for the seats to be wholly removed very quickly in order to be replaced or cleaned, and it is not unknown for the interior padding to have its own waterproof cover. The Class 700 seats are actually designed to be able to be removed (in theory) within the specified station dwell times on Thameslink. This is also one reason for the type of mountings used.

 

[Dave1987]

Well its just tough luck for you isn't it really, looks like hard seats are here to stay along with your other pet hate Bi-mode trains.

I have to admit your post made me chuckle. I’ve seen plenty of posts on social media asking why the seats on new trains are so hard. If is just “tough luck” then don’t expect people to use rail in the future. I think some of you on here and the DFT have got rather complacent that rail patronage will just increase and increase no matter how bad the level of comfort on trains gets.

Considering some of you insisted a well respected journalist was wrong until he was proven to be correct....

 

[Dave1987]

I believe that comfort in general might be a factor.

Certainly ironing boards will probably push people towards other modes of transport.

Very much so! If people start associating rail travel with uncomfortable journeys because the seats are rock hard they may start considering other more comfortable alternatives.

 

[AM9]

I believe that comfort in general might be a factor.

Certainly ironing boards will probably push people towards other modes of transport.

I can't speak for anyone else, and i certainly wouldn't add 30 minutes at each end of a working day just to sit in a slightly more comfy seat in a traffic queue. How much longer would you tolerate for such a furniture enhancement.