Your suggestions for Goole to Knottingley (via Snaith) line

[backontrack]

What's to be done with the line between Goole and Knottingley? Should it be shut for good, given a new lease of line, or just simply left to moulder as normal?

Suggestions on a postcard please.

 

[yorksrob]

Start off with a two hourly service and take it from there.

 

[cactustwirly]

Keep it as it is. There isn't a viable Market for Goole to Leeds, so any improvements will be money down the toilet.
It may work if you ran a Knottingley - Hull or Doncaster shuttle 4 times a day or something like that.
Goole is too far away from Leeds and is quite a small town to generate enough patronage on it's own.

Tbh the stock and money is better spent eleswhere strengthening busy services rather than carting around fresh air every 2 hours

 

[yorksrob]

Keep it as it is. There isn't a viable Market for Goole to Leeds, so any improvements will be money down the toilet.
It may work if you ran a Knottingley - Hull or Doncaster shuttle 4 times a day or something like that.
Goole is too far away from Leeds and is quite a small town to generate enough patronage on it's own.

Tbh the stock and money is better spent eleswhere strengthening busy services rather than carting around fresh air every 2 hours

Nonsense. The settlements are small but near to the stations. They supported a better service previously which was curtailed due to stock shortages, which is no reason to continue a mistaken policy.

 

[IanXC]

One of the problems is that the journey time is generally around 33 minutes, which means that either more than one additional set is required, or only a low frequency can be provided with a lengthy wait at Goole.

 

[anti-pacer]

How about a Northern run service between Leeds-Hull via Knottingley and Goole, semi-fast with the little shacks served in the peaks?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I'll happily stand corrected on this. What about an express from Leeds to Hull via Snaith & Goole? Skipping Woodlesford, Glasshoughton, Saltmarshe, Eastrington and all stops as far as Hessle then Hull.

There is always routing some potential Goole services via Wakefield, providing that there's paths available and even then it would mean skipping Outwood.

 

[DropTheTap]

Pipe dream: reinstate the North- East curve at Hensall and run a Goole to York via Rawcliffe Bridge, Snaith and Selby service. I know lots of people who make the daily drive between Goole and York and points in between (Snaith and Carlton in particular), although I realize that this doesn't constitute accurate market research. A large impediment would be the use of the short section of ECML between Hensall and Temple Hirst, however there is room for a third line, should the will prevail (and indeed was examined in the past for freight between Drax and Gascoigne Wood). This proposal also leaves Whitley Bridge and Hensall without an improved service, although Hensall station could be moved a little further East and still not be much further away from the village it serves. Some existing York- Selby services could be simply extended, with additional stock/ staff required for others. I'm trying not to under- state the magnitude of the project, but like I said, I'm simply throwing ideas around here.

 

[xotGD]

First question to ask is how many people use the existing peak hour services. Any off peak train would have lighter loading still.

 

[TUC]

First question to ask is how many people use the existing peak hour services. Any off peak train would have lighter loading still.

I disagree. A low frequency service will always find it more difficult to gain patronage as the public will be unwilling to use it if the times do not suit their needs or there is a risk of them missing the service back home and so being stranded. Given that the lines paralells the M62 there is surely a market to be explored. A service which serves all of the East Yorkshire settlements,but perhaps misses the West Yorkshire ones covered by other services (except perhaps Glasshoughton due to the market for the leisure park there) is worth exploring.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I disagree also. Who, in their right mind, would embark from Goole or (more importantly) an intermediate station in the knowledge that there is but ONE service daily they can use to get back? Miss it and you walk/taxi/etc. Of course practically nobody uses it.

One of the problems is that the journey time is generally around 33 minutes, which means that either more than one additional set is required, or only a low frequency can be provided with a lengthy wait at Goole.

Depends on what (if anything) you interwork it with. The existing hourly Wakefield K to Knottingley trip takes 25 minutes; extend it by 33 minutes to Goole and you have a one-way trip in a touch under an hour.......

 

[xotGD]

I disagree also. Who, in their right mind, would embark from Goole or (more importantly) an intermediate station in the knowledge that there is but ONE service daily they can use to get back? Miss it and you walk/taxi/etc. Of course practically nobody uses it.



Depends on what (if anything) you interwork it with. The existing hourly Wakefield K to Knottingley trip takes 25 minutes; extend it by 33 minutes to Goole and you have a one-way trip in a touch under an hour.......

Except the Wakefield services will be starting from Leeds from next May (meaning one extra unit required) and also interwork with the Leeds services (unit currently works Leeds - Knottingley - Wakey - Knottingley - Leeds). Might require a bit of tinkering so that only one further unit would be required.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not against improving the service in principle, but there would need to be an expectation of passenger demand, rather than "build it and they will come".

 

[Harpers Tate]

...there would need to be an expectation of passenger demand...

Certainly. But it cannot, whatsoever, be assessed based on existing usage.

 

[BantamMenace]

An hourly Leeds to Hull via Goole stopper should be explored. Shame there isn't a junction off the motorway at the top of the M18, Rawcliffe would make a good park and ride for commuters into Goole, Hull and Leeds.

Is there any house building potential in Snaith, Hensall, Eggborough and Rawcliffe?

 

[SilentGrade]

Is there any house building potential in Snaith, Hensall, Eggborough and Rawcliffe?

There's a new housing estate being built in Snaith at the moment from what i've witnessed. Not sure how big it is though!

 

[backontrack]

There's a new housing estate being built in Snaith at the moment from what i've witnessed. Not sure how big it is though!

Snaith is the largest place on the route, it's even a town while the others are villages. Population in 2011: 3,579. There's probably room for growth in the Snaith and Cowick area - and a proper rail service would help with that.

On another topic I've always thought of Snaith as being like the town of Crythin Gifford in Susan Hill's horror novella The Woman In Black. All it needs is an isolated islet with overwhelming sea-frets, a haunted house and a cemetery...

 

[xotGD]

An hourly Leeds to Hull via Goole stopper should be explored. Shame there isn't a junction off the motorway at the top of the M18, Rawcliffe would make a good park and ride for commuters into Goole, Hull and Leeds.

Is there any house building potential in Snaith, Hensall, Eggborough and Rawcliffe?

There'll soon be a large brownfield plot available at Eggborough. Could be redeveloped as housing.

 

[Adam0984]

I think when direct northern services start running from leeds to hull (and beyond) there is a case to run a train every 2 hours via the alternative route via Goole to supplement to via Selby service and that way you can use Leeds crew who would already sign via Selby and would only need to sign the bit between Gilberdyke and Goole

 

[xotGD]

I think when direct northern services start running from leeds to hull (and beyond) there is a case to run a train every 2 hours via the alternative route via Goole to supplement to via Selby service and that way you can use Leeds crew who would already sign via Selby and would only need to sign the bit between Gilberdyke and Goole

If this hypothetical Leeds - Goole - Hull service is booked for a 158 then I'm all for it!

 

[Boysteve]

I think when direct northern services start running from leeds to hull (and beyond) there is a case to run a train every 2 hours via the alternative route via Goole to supplement to via Selby service and that way you can use Leeds crew who would already sign via Selby and would only need to sign the bit between Gilberdyke and Goole

This is perhaps one of the suggestions with the most potential on this page. It would reduce one train per two hours on the Micklefield line which as we all know is congested. However my understanding is that the new Northern service to Hull would also stop at South Milford, meaning that both Leeds-Micklefield stoppers go on to York. Therefore South Milford would see a service drop that none of us want to see I am sure.

 

[IanXC]

Given the journey time difference of 40 additional minutes via Goole I'm not sure there would be much of a case for a Hull-Leeds service to go this way.

I don't think there is much of a case for it to go anywhere except Goole.

In terms of what to join it to, the via Castleford service typically takes around 35 minutes from Leeds to Knottingley, whereas the via Wakefield Westgate takes around 45. Is an additional 10 minutes with Wakefield connectivity worthwhile?

 

[Finfanero]

Dont understand why they can not put a Dog Box on Goole-Knott-Goole

 

[NorthernSpirit]

As the class 153's are getting withdrawn from service come 2019. So any potential service would be lumbered with either a class 150, 155, 156 or a 158, it'd be hightly likely that it'd be a 150.

 

[Adam0984]

My idea was still run the hourly service via Selby and every 2 hours run an extra one that goes via Goole. As an end to end journey it may take longer but could open up journeys like Pontefract to Hull and the ever popular Hensall to Brough flow lol. Stick cheap advance tickets on it to fill it up and I think it could be worth it

 

[xotGD]

How about a 2-hourly York - Cas - Knottingley - Goole? Again, not aimed at end-to-end journeys, but opening up various new travel options.

 

[Crossover]

It is a few years since I did the service to Goole and there were probably no more than half a dozen on each way after Knottingley (as far as Knottingley it was fairly heavily loaded)

I don't believe that many crew sign the line either?

 

[Adam0984]

It is a few years since I did the service to Goole and there were probably no more than half a dozen on each way after Knottingley (as far as Knottingley it was fairly heavily loaded)

I don't believe that many crew sign the line either?

The numbers are low because of the miserable service that’s only useful if you work the exact hours that allow it to be useful. How many people drive to Knottingley or Pontefract that would use Whitley Bdg, Hensall or Snaith? It needs a use it or lose it service see what potential there is.
As to the question of how many signs it it’s 32 Leeds Guards and a similar number of drivers

 

[backontrack]

How about:

Every 2 hours, the train from Leeds to Knottingley via Glasshoughton continues to Goole
Every 2 hours, the train from Leeds to Knottingley via Wakefield KGT continues to Snaith

That gives a frequency of 1tp2h from Leeds to Rawcliffe and Goole, with double that for Whitley Bridge, Hensall and Snaith.

On Sundays, 4 services could run from Goole to Leeds via Glasshoughton and back.

 

[Starmill]

I have said this before, but this kind of thing is what pacers and D-Trains (both banned from the franchise) could have had a future being used on. Test out routes like this and see if they show signs of promise. If they do, try to get some real trains for them.

It is true that Snaith station is well located and has significant potential. Is it possible to turn back there? Still, Knottingley to Snaith takes 21 minutes.

 

[backontrack]

Is it possible to turn back there?

Surely this wouldn't be necessary on a DMU? I mean, just stop the train and leg it back up the unit to the other cab?