Zero Hours Contracts

[Butts]

The Security Contract I work on part-time employees have been TUPE'd over to a new Security Company.

Talking to some of their staff they are on Zero Hour Contracts - ie they get called in as and when required.

I thought these type of Contracts were illegal now, it must be a nightmare if you are on benefits not knowing your income from week to week.

 

[district]

Zero hour contracts are used frequently by many companies. Although, a lot of them still give regular hours, they just use a zero hour contract to hide behind incase work suddenly stops.

 

[mac]

It's happening alot with agencies now to avoid the agency workers regulations.

 

[richw]

A lot of companies use them, McDonald's ans Tesco are 2 companies I'm aware of who use them a lot

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[wintonian]

Quite legal I believe, though rather controversial.

Newsnight

Food for thought

acas seem to have an opinion on this.

 

[GB]

A couple of the smaller rail freight companies use zero hours contracts. PITA if your after long term, full time employment, but I can see the benefits for retired/semi retired people.

 

[SS4]

Unfortunately they're above board. By the way, don't think you'll be getting any money for statutory leave.

Is there any reason for these beyond enabling employers to exploit staff?

 

[Butts]

Unfortunately they're above board. By the way, don't think you'll be getting any money for statutory leave.

Is there any reason for these beyond enabling employers to exploit staff?

I could have sworn zero hours were dodgy, I remember some big row about it a few years back.

It's not just the Employers that are exploiting Staff - the Companies offering the Contracts make the margins wafer thin hence the low rate of pay.

The sooner "the living wage" comes in the better

 

[fgwrich]

A lot of companies use them, McDonald's ans Tesco are 2 companies I'm aware of who use them a lot

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And a certain large chain model shop does too. It's a shame that they still exisist unfortunatly, as having been on a Zero Hour contract - they were good for when i was at college, but when you've left and got no other work, that's when your stuffed. Fortunatly i've now found part time work with another retailer, but Zero Hours contracts are rather widespread across the retail world unfortunatly.

 

[David]

but Zero Hours contracts are rather widespread across the retail world unfortunatly.

And extremely widespread in the world of employment agencies .... Refuse to work for whatever reason when the agency does call you, and your blacklisted straightaway by them ....

 

[Wyvern]

Coming to a hospital near you:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19592412

NHS trusts are increasingly employing key clinical staff on "zero-hours" contracts which threaten to turn parts of the reformed service into an army of "temps".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/health-warning-over-army-of-nhs-temps-8101469.html

http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/zero-hours-contracts-in-our-nhs-soar-31.html

I really dont want to be operated on by a demoralised surgeon and looked after by demoralised nursing staff. (As I believe happened to my ex-wife)

None of the expense of organising National Insurance, pension and PAYE, no statutory sick pay or maternity leave either. It's a win/win situation for the employer.

 

[Greenback]

Unfortunately they're above board. By the way, don't think you'll be getting any money for statutory leave.

Is there any reason for these beyond enabling employers to exploit staff?

I don;tlike these contracts personally, but as well as being very atractive for employers they are useful for students.

And extremely widespread in the world of employment agencies .... Refuse to work for whatever reason when the agency does call you, and your blacklisted straightaway by them ....

The agancies should be blacklisted!

Coming to a hospital near you:

I really dont want to be operated on by a demoralised surgeon and looked after by demoralised nursing staff. (As I believe happened to my ex-wife)

None of the expense of organising National Insurance, pension and PAYE, no statutory sick pay or maternity leave either. It's a win/win situation for the employer.

In the NHS, it is a situation that is being forced on employers in many ways, because of funding pressures, previous PFI contracts, an ageing population and all sorts of other things.

As the consensus in this country seems to be against increasing direct taxation, and the budget deficit won't allow for NHS organisations to receive the funding they need, there is little option but to look to save money in every possible way.

 

[richw]

Unfortunately they're above board. By the way, don't think you'll be getting any money for statutory leave.

Is there any reason for these beyond enabling employers to exploit staff?

McDonalds from my own experience of 6-7 years working for them (I left the company 12 months ago) do pay annual statutory leave. I worked for 2 different franchises, One averaged your pay over the last 12 weeks, and that was how much you got paid for a week off, the other franchisee did an accural process, where 8% of your gross pay was added to a holiday fund account, and then when took annual leave, with your holiday request you had to note how much of your accrualed holiday pay you wanted. If you had not taken a holiday in 12 months on the anniversary of your last holiday the franchisee paid full accrualled amount. The amount of holiday accrued was visible on each pay slip.

 

[Pumbaa]

Seasonal based employers such as expedition based firms, theme parks, attraction groups and tourism based employers use them. Saves having to rehire everybody the following season.

 

[Trog]

Coming to a hospital near you:
I really dont want to be operated on by a demoralised surgeon and looked after by demoralised nursing staff.

A couple of years ago Mrs Trog had to go into Milton Keynes Hospital for a proceedure. The nurses there did not appear demoralised, quite the reverse they were having a great time laughing and joking about their boy friends.

So much so that they had no time left over for their patients, who were ignored. It was only when the shift changed and an older nurse came on duty that any notice was taken of the patients.

 

[Greenback]

A couple of years ago Mrs Trog had to go into Milton Keynes Hospital for a proceedure. The nurses there did not appear demoralised, quite the reverse they were having a great time laughing and joking about their boy friends.

So much so that they had no time left over for their patients, who were ignored. It was only when the shift changed and an older nurse came on duty that any notice was taken of the patients.

Perhaps they were the zero hours staff, who were so pleased to be in work and seeing each other that they totally forgot they were in a work environment instead of their usual hang outs? It must be easily done if you only work 10 hours a month!

 

[wensley]

Can see why the issue is contentious...however I think it depends of the circumstances of the employee, I have zero hours contract with a mainline TOC with the agreement being that I will cover turns if other staff are unavailable and it fits round my degree. I think it all depends on the individual and the situation.

 

[richw]

Can see why the issue is contentious...however I think it depends of the circumstances of the employee, I have zero hours contract with a mainline TOC with the agreement being that I will cover turns if other staff are unavailable and it fits round my degree. I think it all depends on the individual and the situation.

This shows why zero hour contracts couldnt be outlawed. In your circumstances it benefits both employer and employee

 

[Butts]

This shows why zero hour contracts couldnt be outlawed. In your circumstances it benefits both employer and employee

It's ok if you are a student but imagine if you are on benefits the administration must be a nightmare.

 

[richw]

It's ok if you are a student but imagine if you are on benefits the administration must be a nightmare.

I believe the benefits office average hours/ pay over a period of time, and use that average for benefit calculations.

 

[Butts]

I believe the benefits office average hours/ pay over a period of time, and use that average for benefit calculations.

What if you are on Jobseekers Allowance you sign off and get no work for a few weeks ?

 

[richw]

What if you are on Jobseekers Allowance you sign off and get no work for a few weeks ?

Don't honestly know. But over the period they average for they top up the average hours to 16hours pay for JSA purposes

 

[David]

What if you are on Jobseekers Allowance you sign off and get no work for a few weeks ?

Your allowed to work upto 16 hours in a week before you have to sign off, but ....

You can only keep the first £5 you earn. The rest is deducted out of your JSA ....

 

[Butts]

Your allowed to work upto 16 hours in a week before you have to sign off, but ....

You can only keep the first £5 you earn. The rest is deducted out of your JSA ....

So week one you work 30 hours and week 2 nothing what happens then ?

 

[richw]

So week one you work 30 hours and week 2 nothing what happens then ?

averages to 15hrs, which is what the DWP will take as number of hours

 

[Butts]

averages to 15hrs, which is what the DWP will take as number of hours

Oh I cocked the maths up on that one

Week 1 27 hours
Week 2 34 hours
Week 3 0 hours
Week 4 40 hours

You get the idea - in other words if you get a job with a zero hours contract do you have to "sign off" or are you kept on the books till the situation stabilises and the number of hours worked becomes consistent.

 

[richw]

Oh I cocked the maths up on that one

Week 1 27 hours
Week 2 34 hours
Week 3 0 hours
Week 4 40 hours

You get the idea - in other words if you get a job with a zero hours contract do you have to "sign off" or are you kept on the books till the situation stabilises and the number of hours worked becomes consistent.

That will count as 25 1/4 hours a week. This would make eligible for tax credits etc, you'd lose jsa but become eligible for working tax credits. The problem hours are 16-24 as gotta do 24 hrs a week for tax credits but lose jsa for going over 16 hours. Signing off is waste of time as if your on.0 hr contracts, if you sign off of employment you won't get benefits for 12 weeks anyway.

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[Metroland]

They are very dodgy and should be outlawed. The power is entirely with the employer, and they are becoming more and more widespread in use. How you can get a mortgage deal with one, god only knows, or even rent, because there is no guaranteed wage.

If the Coalition wants to know why the economy is not growing, this sort of instability and lack of security for the workforce is one reason.

If you upset your employers for any reason whatsoever (say turn down work, go sick, disagree with them for some reason) most of the time you will simply not be rostered. You would be effectively out of work. Essentially they can fire at will, or reduce your hours at any time to suit them.

 

[Butts]

They are very dodgy and should be outlawed. The power is entirely with the employer, and they are becoming more and more widespread in use. How you can get a mortgage deal with one, god only knows, or even rent, because there is no guaranteed wage.

If the Coalition wants to know why the economy is not growing, this sort of instability and lack of security for the workforce is one reason.

If you upset your employers for any reason whatsoever (say turn down work, go sick, disagree with them for some reason) most of the time you will simply not be rostered. You would be effectively out of work. Essentially they can fire at will, or reduce your hours at any time to suit them.

Indeed welcome to the real world....a world with no guaranteed hours, no sick pay, statutory holiday entitlement, no other perks.

While some people are fixated by energy and petrol prices or musing their next foreign holidays other have to put up with this zero hours crap !!!

 

[richw]

If you upset your employers for any reason whatsoever (say turn down work, go sick, disagree with them for some reason) most of the time you will simply not be rostered. You would be effectively out of work. Essentially they can fire at will, or reduce your hours at any time to suit them.

I've heard of one company scheduling staff they wanted out but had no grounds to get rid of zero hours week in week out till they quit on their own accord!