Class 707 - SWT: Introduction into service

[Juniper Driver]

Is it not ironic that the SWT chap in the video clip is German whilst the fella from Siemens is English?!

Yeah,I noticed that.

 

[edwin_m]

Just curious, given that they're usually in the middle on 5 car 377s etc

The pan well is normally put as close as possible to the middle of the train, although it has to be above a bogie. This is so if two units are coupled the pans can't be too close together whichever way round the units are. The closest would be about 50m if two 3-car units of 20m stock were coupled with the pan wells both towards the coupled ends. I don't know if this configuration would be speed restricted, but unless the pan well are actually on the driving cars the 707s couldn't be any worse than this.

 

[AlexNL]

Nice to see plugs under the seats and not in the walls, but surely having two would make more sense. Or if they are worried about excessive power drain, just ditch the plugs entirely and go for USB sockets.

That's just a matter of calculating how many expected users there are. These are commuter units. Not every commuter will have the need to charge their equipment while on the move and when someone boards who wants to charge their equipment, they'll just find a different seat with an unused socket.

 

[cjmillsnun]

That's just a matter of calculating how many expected users there are. These are commuter units. Not every commuter will have the need to charge their equipment while on the move and when someone boards who wants to charge their equipment, they'll just find a different seat with an unused socket.

One would argue that many commuters would be lucky to find a seat at all

 

[spark001uk]

I find it a bit strange they decided to ditch the toilets, they only free up a couple of seat spaces (maybe 4 for an accessible toilet), and some of the journeys (ie Weybridge) are in excess of an hour long and I don't know about anyone else but I may well want the toilet sooner than that! In my experience a lot of people jump on at Waterloo with some sort of drink, especially at meal times.

 

[43096]

I find it a bit strange they decided to ditch the toilets, they only free up a couple of seat spaces (maybe 4 for an accessible toilet), and some of the journeys (ie Weybridge) are in excess of an hour long and I don't know about anyone else but I may well want the toilet sooner than that! In my experience a lot of people jump on at Waterloo with some sort of drink, especially at meal times.

There won't be many people doing Waterloo-Weybridge throughout on that route; they'd be on the main line services.

In any case, in my experience the bogs on the current 458s are OOU 90% of the time anyway.

 

[J-2739]

I find it a bit strange they decided to ditch the toilets, they only free up a couple of seat spaces (maybe 4 for an accessible toilet), and some of the journeys (ie Weybridge) are in excess of an hour long and I don't know about anyone else but I may well want the toilet sooner than that! In my experience a lot of people jump on at Waterloo with some sort of drink, especially at meal times.

When they see this removal in amities by 2017, they'll adapt their liquid intake.

Trust me, a removal of a toilet is a lot of space.

 

[swt_passenger]

I find it a bit strange they decided to ditch the toilets, they only free up a couple of seat spaces (maybe 4 for an accessible toilet), and some of the journeys (ie Weybridge) are in excess of an hour long and I don't know about anyone else but I may well want the toilet sooner than that! In my experience a lot of people jump on at Waterloo with some sort of drink, especially at meal times.

The normal toilet in a Desiro UK takes up about four spaces, not two. It's hard to tell exactly how many seats exactly the universal toilet replaces, because it is generally next to the wheelchair spaces and also may have no seats alongside on the opposite side of the train either, but I doubt it'd be much less than ten or so.

 

[TEW]

The main routes the 707s will be used on (Windsor, Weybridge, Hounslow Loop) all see, or have seen 455s used on them, so having no toilet is not a new thing.

 

[spark001uk]

There won't be many people doing Waterloo-Weybridge throughout on that route; they'd be on the main line services.

In any case, in my experience the bogs on the current 458s are OOU 90% of the time anyway.

This is true, and it's almost always a flashing WC sign, which I'm told usually means the tank is 75% full. So from that I would surmise that either they get used a lot, or the units are not seeing the CET apron often enough?

 

[43096]

This is true, and it's almost always a flashing WC sign, which I'm told usually means the tank is 75% full. So from that I would surmise that either they get used a lot, or the units are not seeing the CET apron often enough?

Quite possibly. Though I've no idea why the toilets would lock out at 75% full - should be 99%! Or is it because they are out of water?

It seems to be the 458s that are particularly bad, as the 450s are generally much better for operational facilities.

 

[387star]

I know 458s go back to the readings but where will the spare 450s go as any attempt to replace 444 workings is rarely welcome

 

[J-2739]

I know 458s go back to the readings but where will the spare 450s go as any attempt to replace 444 workings is rarely welcome

To pair or triple up more SWT services, expanding capacity.?

 

[swt_passenger]

I know 458s go back to the readings but where will the spare 450s go as any attempt to replace 444 workings is rarely welcome

A few 450s will go on Ascot - Guildford to release the 456s to other main suburban services that will be 10 car. Most will go towards strengthening mainline services that don't currently run at full size. These are mostly in the shoulder peaks now, we had a discussion about it a few weeks ago in this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=135099&page=3.

Noting post #39 by TEW in that discussion, then no doubt some 450s will definitely replace 444s as well, because 12.450 has greater capacity than a 10.444.

I expect one will go on the Lymington shuttle.

 

[spark001uk]

Quite possibly. Though I've no idea why the toilets would lock out at 75% full - should be 99%! Or is it because they are out of water?

It seems to be the 458s that are particularly bad, as the 450s are generally much better for operational facilities.

I'll ask a guard next time I think of it. They should know, because the standard (manual doored) toilet obviously has to be physically locked out with a T key, whereas the disabled one I think locks out automatically.

I stand corrected if I'm wrong?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There won't be many people doing Waterloo-Weybridge throughout on that route; they'd be on the main line services.

In any case, in my experience the bogs on the current 458s are OOU 90% of the time anyway.

Presumably the 450s have sensors in both the water tanks and the CET tanks which would flag up on the TMS if the water tank was near empty or the CET tank is near full

 

[JonathanH]

The main routes the 707s will be used on (Windsor, Weybridge, Hounslow Loop) all see, or have seen 455s used on them, so having no toilet is not a new thing.

So what? That doesn't make it a good thing to perpetuate decisions made in the 1980s. People were used to trains having 12-seated compartments with no access to any other part of the train, that doesn't mean the 455s needed to be built that way. People complain on SWT webchats about 455s not having toilets.

When they see this removal in amities by 2017, they'll adapt their liquid intake.

Trust me, a removal of a toilet is a lot of space.

I find it a bit strange they decided to ditch the toilets, they only free up a couple of seat spaces (maybe 4 for an accessible toilet), and some of the journeys (ie Weybridge) are in excess of an hour long and I don't know about anyone else but I may well want the toilet sooner than that! In my experience a lot of people jump on at Waterloo with some sort of drink, especially at meal times.

You can extend the toilet argument to the Reading trains. The Reading trains load at least as well, if not more, than the Windsor services from Waterloo. Removing the toilets on 458s would mean some more people could board these trains at Twickenham and Richmond. What is the difference? Windsor is a tourist destination - it has always been a poor and disappointing decision to not fit toilets to the 707s.

 

[D365]

Presumably the 450s have sensors in both the water tanks and the CET tanks which would flag up on the TMS if the water tank was near empty or the CET tank is near full

There's not much that a driver can do about each of those things though is there.

 

[Matt Taylor]

First unit due at Wimbledon in around three weeks I believe.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So what? That doesn't make it a good thing to perpetuate decisions made in the 1980s. People were used to trains having 12-seated compartments with no access to any other part of the train, that doesn't mean the 455s needed to be built that way. People complain on SWT webchats about 455s not having toilets.





You can extend the toilet argument to the Reading trains. The Reading trains load at least as well, if not more, than the Windsor services from Waterloo. Removing the toilets on 458s would mean some more people could board these trains at Twickenham and Richmond. What is the difference? Windsor is a tourist destination - it has always been a poor and disappointing decision to not fit toilets to the 707s.

But then you may as well argue that the S8s on the Met should have had toilets fitted- that's a longer journey end to end than Waterloo to Hampton Court.

 

[J-2739]

So what? That doesn't make it a good thing to perpetuate decisions made in the 1980s. People were used to trains having 12-seated compartments with no access to any other part of the train, that doesn't mean the 455s needed to be built that way. People complain on SWT webchats about 455s not having toilets.





You can extend the toilet argument to the Reading trains. The Reading trains load at least as well, if not more, than the Windsor services from Waterloo. Removing the toilets on 458s would mean some more people could board these trains at Twickenham and Richmond. What is the difference? Windsor is a tourist destination - it has always been a poor and disappointing decision to not fit toilets to the 707s.

Different. Compartments did not comply with the latest disability regulations.

I suppose SWT would be willing to install more toilet facilities across the network, but the since most of the routes they operate use the 455s, what's the point?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There's not much that a driver can do about each of those things though is there.

At least the driver or guard can call through their control to notify them and for water there's probably a few options for refilling at the end of the route.

 

[Class377/5]

First unit due at Wimbledon in around three weeks I believe.

That 001/002 or 003/004, former are doing AC testing as well? (All deliveries will be 10 cars).

 

[spark001uk]

That 001/002 or 003/004, former are doing AC testing as well? (All deliveries will be 10 cars).

Any indication of a delivery route yet?

 

[Class377/5]

Any indication of a delivery route yet?

Properly similar to the 700s which go via Clapham Junction.

 

[spark001uk]

Properly similar to the 700s which go via Clapham Junction.

Oh right, they're coming by rail through the chunnel then?

 

[Class377/5]

Oh right, they're coming by rail through the chunnel then?

All Siemens built trains have come via the tunnel.

 

[spark001uk]

Ah OK. I remember a few of the 700/1 came in all jumbled up, barrier coaches between, cabs facing cabs, that sort of thing!

 

[infobleep]

Different. Compartments did not comply with the latest disability regulations.

I suppose SWT would be willing to install more toilet facilities across the network, but the since most of the routes they operate use the 455s, what's the point?

The problem with the routes operated by 455s is that the ticket offices are often not staffed so the station loos are locked out of use.

In this day and age of equality and disability rights, I think new trains should have loos. Disabilities are not just confined to people in wheelchairs or the blind and deaf.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[J-2739]

The problem with the routes operated by 455s is that the ticket offices are often not staffed so the station loos are locked out of use.

In this day and age of equality and disability rights, I think new trains should have loos. Disabilities are not just confined to people in wheelchairs or the blind and deaf.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Surely, we would have recognized it if it was that serious?