KashmireHawker
Member
Anyone dear hazard a guess to who'll get the nod? Definitely agree that it has been impressive stuff by Transport for Wales, for keeping what is always a very sensitive process exactly like that.
I hardly think TfW can be applauded for carrying out the most secretive, undemocratic, opaque and closed franchise award in the history of rail privatisation.Anyone dear hazard a guess to who'll get the nod? Definitely agree that it has been impressive stuff by Transport for Wales, for keeping what is always a very sensitive process exactly like that.
"Impressive" is not perhaps the word I would use. From observing this thread over the past few months, there appears to be not so much "keeping things sensitive" as "being unable to handle anything". They lost Arriva through their own lack of clarity and vision after all.Anyone dear hazard a guess to who'll get the nod? Definitely agree that it has been impressive stuff by Transport for Wales, for keeping what is always a very sensitive process exactly like that.
"Impressive" is not perhaps the word I would use. From observing this thread over the past few months, there appears to be not so much "keeping things sensitive" as "being unable to handle anything". They lost Arriva through their own lack of clarity and vision after all.
Anyone dear hazard a guess to who'll get the nod? Definitely agree that it has been impressive stuff by Transport for Wales, for keeping what is always a very sensitive process exactly like that.
It's a sealed bid so nobody who knows is allowed to say. As for rumours, it was very strongly towards one company for a while but in the last week I've heard it's a dead cert it's gone to the other - so in reality, who knows?
I'm more concerned with how much, or little, info will actually be revealed on Wednesday.
It's a sealed bid so nobody who knows is allowed to say. As for rumours, it was very strongly towards one company for a while but in the last week I've heard it's a dead cert it's gone to the other - so in reality, who knows?
I'm more concerned with how much, or little, info will actually be revealed on Wednesday.
I have read somewhere that they have to wait 10 days in order to give an opportunity for the unsuccessful bidder to appeal.
I have read somewhere that they have to wait 10 days in order to give an opportunity for the unsuccessful bidder to appeal.
We're unlikely to find out the winning bidder's final plans on Wednesday, but there's no reason why the ITT can't be released is there, for as Skates' office told one of my local councillors, 'post scrutiny'?
Anyone dear hazard a guess to who'll get the nod? Definitely agree that it has been impressive stuff by Transport for Wales, for keeping what is always a very sensitive process exactly like that.
It's a sealed bid so nobody who knows is allowed to say. As for rumours, it was very strongly towards one company for a while but in the last week I've heard it's a dead cert it's gone to the other - so in reality, who knows?
I'm more concerned with how much, or little, info will actually be revealed on Wednesday.
Welsh (Labour) Government, not the Welsh Office (UK Govt), which thanks to devolution is now largely irrelevant.If ATW have agreed to work with their ROSCo to cover upgrade costs for toilets then I doubt that the hand-over to a new TOC will happen in October. This franchise change is a mess and largely due to the Welsh Office.
A 'standstill period' (of ten days, or longer) is standard for all contracts tendered via the OJEU process. It just means that they wait ten days after announcing the winning bidder before they sign the contract in case there any legal challenges (e.g. an unsuccessful bidder can demonstrate that the rules were broken).I have read somewhere that they have to wait 10 days in order to give an opportunity for the unsuccessful bidder to appeal.
Actually, if Llandundo-Manchester remains a stopper as it currently is I wouldn't disagree that 170s or 185s are probably suitable (except perhaps in terms of train length, but then the 175s are only 2/3 coaches too) but in that case the Northern Connect Chester-Leeds service should be worked by 175s or similar. Basiclly, I think one of the 2tph services between Chester and Manchester via Warrington should be limited stop, calling only at Warrington Bank Quay and perhaps Newton-Le-Willows, and be worked by a regional express unit (ie. with doors at the vehicle ends). The other service would then be a stopper and hence outer-suburban units are acceptable as long as the overall journey time is not excessive and the service is a stopper throughout (which the Llandudnos currently are).Rhydagaled well not doubt vent about there door positioning but they are probably better suited to Llandudno to Manchester than the 175's. And the Cambrian Coast (etcs permitting).
Aren't there only 16 class 170s (5 ScotRail and 11 Anglia) due off lease by the 2020 deadline? That's not enough to replace Pacers (but if the 769 production is fast once it finally gets going compliance should still be possible). Also; it's not that simple. Remember that EMT also have no plans for PRM compliance for their class 153s yet, so they will also be needing cascaded DMUs.thanks for confirming that Domh245 - then its clear that W&B must have access (Even if temporarily) to the off lease GA fleet to achieve PRM Compliance with no toilets locked.
I expect there will be a plan for PRM compliance, but I agree that it is looking likely that implementation of the plan will be delayed and the deadline missed. The question then is whether derrogations will be granted while the work is completed or toilets locked out of use. I hope the former.Well here's one thing that probably wont be highlighted......the first 319 went into Brush's works in December 2016 to be converted to a bi mode 769 and its hasn't happened yet. Allegedly the prototype will be on display on Rail Live in June, whether this means a working functioning bi mode ready for entry to traffic or not is perhaps open to question. Given the acceptance testing then has to occur and Northern's order was placed before ATW's I wouldn't bet on them appearing this year in the Valleys.
Which doesn't leave a lot of time for the 150/158 conversions.
I suspect PRM Compliance will be glossed over in the announcement.
Actually, if Llandundo-Manchester remains a stopper as it currently is I wouldn't disagree that 170s or 185s are probably suitable (except perhaps in terms of train length, but then the 175s are only 2/3 coaches too) but in that case the Northern Connect Chester-Leeds service should be worked by 175s or similar. Basiclly, I think one of the 2tph services between Chester and Manchester via Warrington should be limited stop, calling only at Warrington Bank Quay and perhaps Newton-Le-Willows, and be worked by a regional express unit (ie. with doors at the vehicle ends). The other service would then be a stopper and hence outer-suburban units are acceptable as long as the overall journey time is not excessive and the service is a stopper throughout (which the Llandudnos currently are).
I wouldn't want 170s on the Cambrian though; if the Cambrian Coast was worked as a shuttle between Pwllheli and Machynlleth you could make a case that outer-suburban stock would be suitable, but you wouldn't need a 100mph top speed for that and you'd have a micro-fleet at Machynlleth depot mixed with the Cambrian Mainline regional express fleet.
Aren't there only 16 class 170s (5 ScotRail and 11 Anglia) due off lease by the 2020 deadline? That's not enough to replace Pacers (but if the 769 production is fast once it finally gets going compliance should still be possible). Also; it's not that simple. Remember that EMT also have no plans for PRM compliance for their class 153s yet, so they will also be needing cascaded DMUs.
I expect there will be a plan for PRM compliance, but I agree that it is looking likely that implementation of the plan will be delayed and the deadline missed. The question then is whether derrogations will be granted while the work is completed or toilets locked out of use. I hope the former.
I think Llandudno- Mancheser Airport is pretty much nailed on as something else from what we've got running it now- could even be new build.
If 175s aren't suitable for the Llandudno services because of the door arrangement and narrow vestibules clogging things up at Oxford Road and Chester, then you can make the same case for the Manchester-South Wales services too at Crewe and Shrewsbury.
We know that's exactly what will happen though! It will have been pre-determined by TfW like everything else.The numbers/ timeframe simply don't stack up whatever scenario you try and play.
Vivarail will be hard to justify given previous rejection and there will be a lot of procurement rules questions asked if the CAF Plant in Newport suddenly has a full order book form the new franchise.
I agree. TBH, doors at quarters or thirds as per Classes 170, 185 and 195 (with high quality InterCity interiors like Chiltern's) are to me the correct arrangement for all of the kind of services ATW operate with the one exception of the WAG Express, which itself might do better being dropped and replaced with a generally higher quality clockface service on that route all day.
ATW doesn't really operate InterCity services other than that one exception, they're medium to long distance regional expresses which is the kind of service the Class 170 was basically made for.
I would expect that all sorts of stock will be thrown at the problem short-term, so much of what's written above will not matter. If adding half a dozen 230s to the mix gets over the immediate problem then in they come. Finding a longer term use for any of the refurbed stock is harder, but I expect that some will have been done for price reasons. Can't afford new stock throughout, not with CVL to pay for.
That's an endearing image of different parts of the industry all pulling together to help out Transport for Wales regardless of other obligations/ contracts and commercial activity. Especially on Meltdown Monday.
Birmingham to the Cambrian has a high number of long distance travelers that go end to end but at certain times ATW are swamped with Shropshire commuters I'd be interested to see comparisons with Manchester to Cardiff through travelers. However i do think the Marches is affluent enough for a small 1st class section similar to what TPE have on their 185's.
I would expect that all sorts of stock will be thrown at the problem short-term, so much of what's written above will not matter. If adding half a dozen 230s to the mix gets over the immediate problem then in they come. Finding a longer term use for any of the refurbed stock is harder, but I expect that some will have been done for price reasons. Can't afford new stock throughout, not with CVL to pay for.
Shooter seemed to make fairly clear in his last presentation that 230's wouldn't be going to Wales