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New transport secretary

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Bighat

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I think you need to take it in the jokey context it was meant. Since there are a couple of forum members who are making bold and unreferenced statements that to the majority seem complete bollocks, a few of us tried to lighten the mood by stating obvious bold and unreferenced statements ourselves :D


WTF are you on about?
 
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Geezertronic

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WTF are you on about?

Well to spell it out for you....

Frankly, this whole election has been a shambles. The Conservatives should never have been allowed to be elected into power. The secret pact that Thatcher made to her Tory backbenchers, Labour and the Liberal Democrats back in the eighties has ensured, as it was meant to, that a Tory transport secretary would be elected into power after Labour failed to deliver on its failed promise to renationalise the railways. If one Labour transport minister fails to deliver renationalisation, another steps in and makes the same veiled promises, whilst at the same time, ensuring that our railways remain severely safety-compromised.
They should abolish the coalition immediately, dissolve Parliament, rerun the election, and ensure we do not get a minister who made the Thatcher pact which destroyed British Rail.

makes as much sense as....

I hear Nick Clegg used to be Gordon Browns lover, but after Gordon rejected Nick's proposal, Nick Clegg set out to get revenge, slept with David Cameron and started blackmailing Gordon with the home sextape they made in Malaga 2 years ago in a bid to force him out of power. Gordon called his good friend Spiderman, and asked him to involved. Unfortunately Paddy Ashdown had him wacked.

and

I heard that after Avatar, David Cameron gave up his promising film directing career so he could run the country along with his long lost twin Nick, who was born Cameron Stout but changed his name following his win in Big Brother 4

Also, Gordon Brown was born Euphegenia Doubtfire but went through the change after her appearance in the 1993 film.

I have concrete proof of these facts but I'm not going to post the links :D

Try reading http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32538 for more unreferenced coments that make no sense :D
 

thegrich37423

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There is so much proof that you are all so blind to see it.

Proof that Thatcher destroyed the railway system.

Proof that the Tory pact is nothing more than an elaborate conspiracy to reelect the same minister who closed the railway lines to begin with.
 

Greenback

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What prroof? What pact? Your post reads as though you believe Ernest Marples is being resurrected to serve as transport minister!

Very entertaining though!
 
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bluebottle

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There is so much proof that you are all so blind to see it.

Proof that Thatcher destroyed the railway system.

Proof that the Tory pact is nothing more than an elaborate conspiracy to reelect the same minister who closed the railway lines to begin with.

None of which you can provide.
 

Geezertronic

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There is so much proof that you are all so blind to see it.

Proof that Thatcher destroyed the railway system.

Proof that the Tory pact is nothing more than an elaborate conspiracy to reelect the same minister who closed the railway lines to begin with.

Please please please please please please back up your claims by posting proof... for someone with such forceful views, your lack of citation shows you up to be a person whose postings are nothing more than points of view rather than fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theories may help you :|
 

jon0844

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Someone tweets that they're going to blow an airport up and is arrested. Someone comes on here highlighting a series of conspiracies and is left to go on as normal...

...making me believe that there is no conspiracy.

Still, I can't wait to see who the Tories bring back to shut down the railways - especially given OT's posts about how the Conservatives actually have a pretty good track record with the railways. Not that facts should get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
 

HITMAN

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There is so much proof that you are all so blind to see it.

Proof that Thatcher destroyed the railway system.

Proof that the Tory pact is nothing more than an elaborate conspiracy to reelect the same minister who closed the railway lines to begin with.

God damn you, you've done it, you've solved it!! I thought I going to get away with it until i'd read that. I'd better come clean with you all, myself and all the other party members were planning to bring the dead back to life to ruin YOUR railways. Dr Beaching will be uplifted, with help from Batman and the terminator. We then will march an army of the undead on Euston station and declare the new regieme. No seriously mate i've discovered this new game, think you'd really like it, you go to a roundabout anywhere in the UK and keep turning right, its endless fun and i think you'd really enjoy it.

Now back in the non fictional world.

There have to be savings yes, but with the possibility of global warming as it is and rail overcrowding the Conservative party will continue to invest in rail. My personal plan would be to scrap the IEP programme, as its ****, then use the Pendolinos on the GW mainline once its electric and the new high speed rail link is built, with the properly high speed trains going north on classic lines. If the 225's are to be replaced then they should be replaced with something that can do 155mph, and in the current fiscal climate there is no need for replacing them at all.
 

Old Timer

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Now, now Chaps, let us not be too harsh shall we ?

Lets us look at some objective facts ?

I see Mrs Thatcher has been mentioned. Well she is a very powerful figure, even today, and if you recall the first thing that Tony Bliar did was to go pay her homage on the day he entered Downing St as PM. Why would he have done this as she was his Political Opponent ?

After all he did not go to see Major as the outgoing PM. No Bliar was desperately worried about his future.

He had said many nasty things about Mrs Thatcher and he knew ultimately where that would lead to.

You only have to look at what happened to those who opposed her. Take the NUM and Arthur Scargill. Utterly destroyed as one of the most powerful Trade Union leaders of all time. Now living a life of retreat in a bungalow in Sheffield.

The whole NUM is now of course the size of a pub darts team, and has to meet in a different working mens club each week to stay one step ahead of those who would wish bad things upon it.

The Steelmakers sought to wreak havoc upon Mrs Thatcher. The Steel Industry has been eliminated and the trade union not even heard of after that. What of its leaders ? All gone, and never heard of since ? Where have they been taken ? Who took them ? What happened to them ?

The Railway Trade Unions ? Well they have been emasculated through the medium of Privatisation.

Look at some of the MPs who opposed her in her own Government ?

All gone. Some went to prison.

Indeed her greatest near succcess was to almost succeed in eliminating the whole Cabinet which opposed her in 1984.

Manufacturing ? Well those who criticised from the safety of their Board rooms found soon after that their Companies were bankrupted and they were thrown out onto the career scrapheap. Nobody would re-employ them under threat of something similar happening to them.

Look at the Seamen and the Ship Owners. They tried to get lippy with Mrs T and suddenly you find a ferry capsized and half of them sitting in Court on trumped up charges.

Whilst Mrs T continues on, still all powerful, all those who dared to question her have all met with misfortune, lost their fortunes, found themselves unemployable, and in some cases either in prison or sent to one of the penal colonies.

No wonder Bliar was so careful, and indeed now you can see why Brown went out of his way to praise her, giving special interviews to the Daily Mail, which as we all know is part of her attack force. Reporters from there are sent out daily to track any bit of scandal down and the victim is then either publicly humiliated or silenced.

So you see there could be some truth in what these chaps say after all. WE could all be wrong !

Remember that the Labour activists are saying now that both Bliar and Brown were acting under Mrs Ts direct orders.

And what of those who opposed New Labour ? Need I say more than Dr Kelly ?

I think the two posters are indeed VERY brave or indeed very foolish.

We know don't we that the Government can and does monitor all telephone calls,our post our emails, even our private conversations can be picked up using advanced technology and micro-bugs. Indeed some are not disguised at all but serve dual purposes. The telphone for exampole which records all sound constantly and feeds the recordings back to a central monitoring station.

There are incredibly powerful computers which listen for trigger words and when one comes up they record all of the conversation.

Government databases log every call, log every movement made by CCTV (which can now identify individuals by their walk, their shape, their voice.

Why do you think that there are cameras everywhere ?

Mrs T of course. She told New Labour to install them so as to identify dissenters and stifle unrest.

You only have to look at the papers more and more which reveal how various plots have been defused because of advanced intelligence. How do you think they knew ? Bugging thats how !

Ever heard of "Common Purpose" ?

Google and be terrified.

Your car can be traced by millions of roadside cameras which read number plates, the Police have massive files on everyone, and they are linked up to all the other Government computers so they can see you health records and your tax payments, they can see your bank account, theu know where you shop and what you buy through Sainsburys and Tesco loyalty cards. Why do you think they have them ? YES simply so they can track you down !

Then of course there are the Americans, and we all know that the UK is the 51st State doing as it is bid (Iraq/Afghanistan) and they kidnap people and take them away to foreign countries, never to be heard of again.

So my good friends, you are very brave to draw attention to yourselves.

Tell me have you heard any strange clicks on the telephone line recently ? Noticed the same cars parked in your street ? Have strangers stopped to talk to you in the supermarket, or in the pub ? Maybe on a train.

And that young woman, you know the good looking one who seems to have an interest in you ? Is she REALLY as innocent as she seems or is she an agent of the State, worming her way into your life, gaining access to your house. And that recent illness ? Was it REALLY just a bug ?

What of the men who arrived unannounced to read the meter ? did you ask for their ID ? Were they longer than you think they needed to be ?

And that window you thought was closed when you went out, now its slightly open on the catch ? Strange that !

You have seen what has happened to those who dissent and reveal information that Governments and the State wish to keep secret.

Your bravery is to be applauded. I hope you are still here this time next year.
 
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Metroland

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There is so much proof that you are all so blind to see it.

Proof that Thatcher destroyed the railway system.

Proof that the Tory pact is nothing more than an elaborate conspiracy to reelect the same minister who closed the railway lines to begin with.

You'll be arguing soon that ash stopping the airlines is really a bonfire in the back garden of a semi in Grantham, with shadowing figures throwing on old NUR membership forms, the clothes off the back of coal miners and a tartan overcoat from a jack russell called Neil.

Thus part of an attempt to prevent immigrants coming in, get out of membership of the Euro and to close the stansted express down and put magic carpet replacement services on instead.
 

Old Timer

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But of course that is the point, Old Boy !

Now we are back in power we have SO much to do, so many people to hunt down and eliminate.

All those on here who have mocked and criticised will be amongst the first. I can assure you that the Shadow Transport team has been closely monitoring these sites and noting down those individuals.

Now that we have the trappings of power we can identify their houses and it is now merely a matter of time before divine Thatcherite retribution is visited upon the disbelievers, and the idolators.

Labour have completed the final arrangements for us to remain in power for 1,000 years, and the latest changes to the ability to vote a Parliament out (as announced by our divine leader) will ensure absolute loyalty by those whom we have made MPs.

Remember they all come from the same background so they will follow the party line !

And you thought the Communists had all the best regimes !

And now to destroy the Railways, the NHS, Industry, Farming, space travel, etc, etc.

See thegrich37423 WAS right all along !

All that remains is to summon up the evil dead to sort out the Chavs.

Meanwhile OT shall inherit the Continent and convert all to Class 86/45/&25 haulage, with 310s and MetCams as the units of choice !
 

Ian99

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From the Guardian Diary of today:

• Funny, noted Nick Robinson, the BBC's political editor, that as Philip Hammond made his debut as transport secretary on the Today programme yesterday, he seemed much more comfortable answering questions on the economy. Maybe, as Nick pointed out, this had something to do with the fact that Hammond has no obvious expertise on transport. His shadow responsibilities spanned health, trade and industry and the Treasury. And could it be just a coincidence, asks reader Tim Gresty, that his near neighbour (in the parliamentary sense), is the similarly named Stephen Hammond, Conservative MP for Wimbledon, who was a respected, knowledgeable and vocal shadow minister for transport until the election. Did Dave get his wires crossed? Well, there was a lot going on.
 

Old Timer

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I wouldn't pay too much attention the the Grauniad, any credibility it did have it lost a long time ago, and even its executives are baling out as the market share plummets and it will soon be time to close the doors.
 

the sniper

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The media section is good though, on the Guardian website that is.
 
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thegrich37423

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As usual, everyone is rushing to defend their own political corner. How is what another user above is saying any more true then what I'm saying? I'm only interpreting what is common knowledge as to the history of how our railways became privatised.

The proof is in the years of damage caused by privatisation of the railways, that's why I said that people are so blind they cannot see it.
 

Metroland

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As usual, everyone is rushing to defend their own political corner. How is what another user above is saying any more true then what I'm saying? I'm only interpreting what is common knowledge as to the history of how our railways became privatised.

The proof is in the years of damage caused by privatisation of the railways, that's why I said that people are so blind they cannot see it.

Not me, I don't have one. Just not that tribal, the world is not black and white, its a trillion shades of grey. Markets, individuals, society and government are not perfect or optimal in delivering anything, it's very hard to be very left or right and keep a straight face in my opinion.

I make my mind up about things through reading and hearing lots of views and facts and opinions, and come to conclusions through weighted evidence, not guesswork (at least where possible).

Must admit, I prefer the Guardian to the Daily mail any day, while the Guardian sometimes publishes sensationalist crap (Did anyone see George Monbiot's column today?) the Daily Mail has made a institution of skewed political diatribe and exaggeration, with the Sun not far behind. I read the former for entertainment and the latter to have a good laugh.

I read them all, for truthfulness out of ten I'd rate:

The Sun 2/10
Daily Mail 3/10
The Express 3/10
The Times 5/10
the Telegraph 5/10
The Guardian 6/10
The Independent 5/10

Everything needs to be taken with a dollop of salt, and everyone needs to understand what they are reading tends to be a 'viewspaper'. So read widely.

The most reliable source of news is still probably the BBC and even that has it's faults.

We'd all take you a lot more seriously Richard if you backed your views up with some sort of evidence.
 

thegrich37423

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But how is the evidence provided by other posters any more or less accurate than what I've read about privatisation? The sources for which I spout my case are pretty plausible with regards to this Thatcher pact and why successive governments fail to act on renationalisation of our railways. The pact was real, and all decision making regarding our railways was made from it.
 

90019

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But how is the evidence provided by other posters any more or less accurate than what I've read about privatisation?
Because you refuse to show us them, which just implies that you're taking bollocks. Until you show evidence what you say is nothing more than an opinion.
The sources for which I spout my case are pretty plausible with regards to this Thatcher pact and why successive governments fail to act on renationalisation of our railways. The pact was real, and all decision making regarding our railways was made from it.
Can you show us some proof of it then?
 

Metroland

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But how is the evidence provided by other posters any more or less accurate than what I've read about privatisation? The sources for which I spout my case are pretty plausible with regards to this Thatcher pact and why successive governments fail to act on renationalisation of our railways. The pact was real, and all decision making regarding our railways was made from it.

Well the first thing is, they didn't privatise it to destroy it. They 'thought' it would improve it because that's what the conservatives *believe* in. The don't believe in nationalisation, left wing parties do.

The right wing believe in the individual, private ownership and less regulation, the left wing believes in the state, collectives (like trade unions) and more regulation.

There are pluses and minuses of privatisation. A big plus has been the growth in passengers and freight, that said, nationalised companies abroad have also seen growth.

The big downside, is the cost.

Where the ideology was entirely wrong IMHO was to break it up into so many parts to induce competition, when in reality there is plenty of competition from other forms of transport - especially for transport that doesn't pay it's full costs or has such strict safety standards. All you do is load middle management and regulation onto rail, and have far less on say road.

The most cost effective railway in the world is US freight which is *private*, and also vertically integrated. Japanese studies have pretty much concluded there is little point in breaking it up beyond vertical integration because it needs so much regulation and management.

I believe if it has been broken up into 4-6 regional companies, where it would have been more difficult to sell, it would have been better in the long term.

The left wing will always say it would be better off nationalised, and there are a couple of bits of evidence to say that's true as well. An integrated system people would find easier to use, gets rid of the problem of lack of moral hazard from profiteering private companies, and allows better cross subsidisation. (Freight and Express trains always made money, rural lines and off peak services never did).

While there are some good examples of nationalised systems, in reality the success really depends on political will. With transport so near the bottom of any British governments priorities, the railways ended up being starved of investment for years.
 
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HITMAN

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But how is the evidence provided by other posters any more or less accurate than what I've read about privatisation? The sources for which I spout my case are pretty plausible with regards to this Thatcher pact and why successive governments fail to act on renationalisation of our railways. The pact was real, and all decision making regarding our railways was made from it.

Listen, i'll tell you what, the reason that nobody takens what your saying seriously is because you combine some fairly outrageous claims disguised in barely understandable dicta with a complete lack of either reasoned arguement or evidence. Your talking about this 'Thatcher pact' but you fail to give the reader any impression other than that you dreamt it up or that your genuinely crazy.

Statements such as 'there is so much proof but you are all blind to see it' don't exactly convey brilliance when no such proof has been provided. If your someone like Old Timer then you can ask people to take your word on things, because that trust has been earned, but if you come onto a forum merely to troll then you can't expect everyone to come round to a certain view because you have evidence which you can't show us. Why don't you provide a shred of either arguement or evidence for any of your claims? Like OT did in an excellent and informative post to justify why the Conservative party has managed the railways better than the Labour party.
 

moggie

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OT - you are a teaze - stop playing with them all.

PS actually i thought your sumary of the rusty lady a few post back was pretty accurate really! I'll keep my slippers by the door for when they come round tomorrow - save them having to take me laces away!:lol:
 

Old Timer

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But I am an Instrument of Mrs Thatcher.

I have been placed in the Industry ready to carry out her very command now that the Conservatives are back in power.

I have the list of critics and idolators....we know where they live.

And then afterwards we close the WCML down !

You surely realised that this was her great plan, a Labour government to destroy the economy to allow her to gain power once more and destroy the Railways.

My reward is Europe.......... which shall soon be under the OT Jackboot


When OT takes over the world he will do the following !

1) Close all games arcades, and re-instate PSBs with proper panels.

2) Remove all axle counters.

3) GEC Geographical interlockings to be the norm.

4) The Westinghouse Westpac designers to be executed.

5) SSI designers to be executed...slowly

6) Proponents of axle counters to be executed mercilessly.

7) SPTs to be strapped to the signal post...as used to be.

8 Useless modern plastic trains to be cut up.

9) Class 25/45/86/310 to be the norm.

10) Mk 3 to be re-introduced.

11) Saltley depot to be re-opened

12) All Safety Taliban to be sent to the Construction Industry, which manages to kill tens of people per year without let or hindrance or any seeming interest by the HSE.

13) Spads (bloody awful Western name!) to be called SPDs as they were properly known, and no SPD to be actionable as long as the train was contained within the overlap. Those who have knee-jerked on SPDs and "Professional Driving" to be hunted down mercilessly, and executed. Their wives and children to be sold into slavery

14) Professional driving to be as directed by former Saltley drivers

15) Removal of the requirement to use SC protocol when identifying train and signal via SPT....Dear God how many other people speak to a signalman in a different box from an SPT identified as SY or NS or RY or NN or SD4 ????

16) Proper line names to be reinstated, e. g. Down and Up Arley to become Birmingham, Down and Up Hinkley to become Leicester. Lines into Euston to be renamed Fasts, Slows, and Carriage. Those responsible to be sent to work for a local council (that will teach them !)

17) Proper Jct names to be reinstated, e. g. Kempston Road Jct NOT Bedford South ! Those responsible for renaming such places of long history to be excuted, slightly (but only just) quicker than SSI designers.

18 ) Signalmen to be made to learn the names of local places along the line...e.g. "This is OT calling from Lea Marston"...S/man "Where",...OT "Lea Marston".....Signalman "Where's that ?"

19) Proper Possession lengths implemented.

20) Punters to be told that the Railway does not respond to the "I want it and I want it now" culture. We are not here to run trains 24 hours per day on the off-chance that some ****ed up YUPPIE MIGHT want to travel at some God-forsaken hour of the night after some cocaine fuelled rave party.


Simples



Oh yes and Meercats to become fashionable.

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