Class 387 to GN

[jon0844]

Perhaps they should properly label first class so it isn't just used by anyone, thus removing said benefits of getting a seat!

Just move first class to either end, behind the cabs, and be done with it!

 

[sc597]

Hi all, is there a way for non-Rail industry peeps to check the rolling stock in use on the day? I tend to use realtimetrains.co.uk to check times and movements but I notice that it's not correct on the stock at the moment - for example 1R47 07:32 Royston to KGX this morning it says 365, but it ran as a 387. Is there a site with more accurate information that anyone can recommend? Mainly so I can avoid the 317 services!

 

[D365]

Hi all, is there a way for non-Rail industry peeps to check the rolling stock in use on the day? I tend to use realtimetrains.co.uk to check times and movements but I notice that it's not correct on the stock at the moment - for example 1R47 07:32 Royston to KGX this morning it says 365, but it ran as a 387. Is there a site with more accurate information that anyone can recommend? Mainly so I can avoid the 317 services!

Even if a service is booked for a certain type of rolling stock, sometimes you will find other classes covering it. The 317-operated services should stay fairly constant while they remain.

 

[jon0844]

Don't think RTT shows the specific train, just the timing.

 

[Tom C]

317's vice 365's tonight.............

341 & 348

17:23 KGX-RYS
19:10 KGX-PBO
20:44 PBO-KGX
22:22 KGX-PBO

337 & 338

16:40 KGX-PBO
17:54 PBO-KGX
19:22 KGX-PBO

 

[philjo]

17:22 to Cambridge is starting from Wgc this evening - 2x387 have just come out of Welwyn sidings. No heating inside!

 

[Failed Unit]

317's vice 365's tonight.............

341 & 348

17:23 KGX-RYS
19:10 KGX-PBO
20:44 PBO-KGX
22:22 KGX-PBO

337 & 338

16:40 KGX-PBO
17:54 PBO-KGX
19:22 KGX-PBO

441 & 448 did 1752 Royston. Maybe because of disruption earlier. Seats were welcome.

Was 1728 to WGC a 387 today? Saw one leaving about then.

1752 was being 317s every day I have used it this week. Seats welcome.

 

[swt_passenger]

Don't think RTT shows the specific train, just the timing.

Indeed. Also, although unusual, it is quite possible for RTT to show a type of stock that a TOC doesn't actually have in use. As an example there are a number of Chiltern services that are timed for 158s.

 

[Roast Veg]

That's because the performance of Turbostars is close enough to 158s that there doesn't need to be a distinct timing option.

 

[387star]

I overheard people in FC a few weeks back on GatEx saying they had been ripped off.

It is particularly noticeable when comparing 387s with their 442 predecessors. There is no reason why the 387s couldn't have been kitted out like the 379s - in fact that is what should have happened. The 387s are frankly a disgrace.

Yeah shame the first class is not like 379s

The website mentions a free copy of the telegraph so I suppose that's a bonus if you read that paper!

Also mentions reclining seats but that is out of date now

 

[Via Bank]

Yeah shame the first class is not like 379s

The website mentions a free copy of the telegraph so I suppose that's a bonus if you read that paper!

Also mentions reclining seats but that is out of date now

So they're advertising reclining seats which are, in fact, not available? That sounds like false advertising to me...

 

[leuty]

Are there any updates on which diagrams the Class 387 units operate on the Great Northern network or is it pot luck on where they appear? I caught the 0657 CBG to KGX service last Tuesday to find it was formed of 2 x Class 387 instead of 2 x 317. Are the three morning peak time Cambridge local services to London King's Cross that are formed of eight carriages now booked to run as Class 387 units instead of the Class 317 units?

 

[bramling]

Are there any updates on which diagrams the Class 387 units operate on the Great Northern network or is it pot luck on where they appear? I caught the 0657 CBG to KGX service last Tuesday to find it was formed of 2 x Class 387 instead of 2 x 317. Are the three morning peak time Cambridge local services to London King's Cross that are formed of eight carriages now booked to run as Class 387 units instead of the Class 317 units?

As far as I know, these are the *booked* diagrams. However, there are some alterations to facilitate two pairs of 317s continuing for the time being.

(Triple)
Empty Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
1P49 0733 Peterborough - KX
Empty KX - Hornsey Depot
Empty Hornsey Depot - KX
1P66 1743 KX - Peterborough
Empty Peterborough - Peterborough Carriage Sidings

(Pair)
Empty Hornsey Depot - Welwyn Garden City
2Y83 0703 Welwyn Garden City - KX
Empty KX - Letchworth
2R35 0835 Letchworth - KX
Empty KX - Welwyn Carriage Sidings
Empty Welwyn Carriage Sidings - KX
2V90 1758 KX - Welwyn Garden City
Empty Welwyn Garden City - Hornsey Depot

(Pair)
Empty Letchworth Carriage Sidings - Royston
1R45 0712 Royston - KX
Empty to Welwyn Garden City
2Y87 0844 Welwyn Garden City - KX
1C48 0952 KX - Cambridge
1C59 1130 Cambridge - KX
Empty KX - Welwyn Carriage Sidings
Empty Welwyn Carriage Sidings - KX
1P64 1713 KX - Peterborough
2P63 1916 Peterborough - KX
1P80 2122 KX - Peterborough
Empty Peterborough - Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings

(Pair)
Empty Cambridge Carriage Sidings - Cambridge
1C43 0615 Cambridge - KX
Empty KX - Royston
1R51 0834 Royston - KX
Empty KX - Hornsey Depot
Empty Hornsey Depot - KX
1C96 1823 KX - Cambridge
Empty Cambridge - Cambridge Carriage Sidings

(Pair)
Empty Cambridge Carriage Sidings - Cambridge
2C29 0627 Cambridge - KX
Empty KX - Hornsey Depot
Empty Hornsey Depot - KX
2R30 1752 KX - Royston
Empty Royston - Letchworth Carriage Sidings

(Pair)
Empty Cambridge Carriage Sidings - Cambridge
2C91 0657 Cambridge - KX
Empty KX - Hornsey Depot
Empty Hornsey Depot - KX
1P62 1650 KX - Peterborough
2P61 1821 Peterborough - KX
1P78 2022 KX - Peterborough
Empty Peterborough - Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings

(Pair)
Empty Cambridge Carriage Sidings - Cambridge
2C93 0727 Cambridge - KX (Divides at KX)
Empty KX - Hornsey Depot
Empty Hornsey Depot - KX
1C60 1552 KX - Cambridge
1C69 1717 Cambridge - KX
1P18 1837 KX - Peterborough
Empty Peterborough - Peterborougn Nene Carriage Sidings
Empty Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
1P83 2146 Peterborough - KX
1P84 2322 KX - Peterborough
Empty Peterborough - Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings

(The remaining diagrams are single although may work as part of pairs or triples for one or more journeys).

Empty Hornsey Depot - Letchworth
2R00 0613 Letchworth - KX
2C04 0704 KX - Cambridge
2C39 0855 Cambridge - KX
Empty KX - Hornsey Depot
Empty Hornsey Depot - KX
2C26 1653 KX - Cambridge
2C59 1855 Cambridge - KX
Empty KX - Hornsey Depot

Empty Peterborough Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
2P21 0410 Peterborough - KX
2C02 0604 KX - Cambridge
1C49 0755 Cambridge - KX
Empty KX - Welwyn Carriage Sidings (Attaches at Welwyn Carriage Sidings)
Empty Welwyn Carriage Sidings - KX
2C28 1722 KX - Royston (Detaches at Royston)
Empty Royston - Cambridge Carriage Sidings
On Fridays only this diagram continues as follows:
(Joins at Cambridge Carriage Sidings)
Empty Cambridge Carriage Sidings - Cambridge
1C27 2145 Cambridge - KX (Divides at KX)
1C82 2252 KX - Cambridge
Empty Cambridge - Carriage Sidings (Attaches at Cambridge Carriage Sidings)

Empty Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
1P41 Peterborough - KX
Empty KX - Royston
1R47 0732 Royston - KX
2P06 0834 KX - Peterborough
2P45 1016 Peterborough - KX (Divides at KX)
2C14 1204 KX - Cambridge
1C53 1356 Cambridge - KX
2P20 1534 KX - Peterborough
2P59 1721 Peterborough - KX
2C36 1918 KX - Cambridge
Empty Cambridge - Cambridge Carriage Sidings
On Fridays only this diagram continues as follows:
(Joins at Cambridge) and does not run to Cambridge Carriage Sidings
1C25 2115 Cambridge - KX (Divides at KX)
1P36 2301 KX - Peterborough
Empty Peterborough - Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings

Empty Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
1P41 Peterborough - KX
Empty KX - Royston
1R47 0732 Royston - KX
2P06 0834 KX - Peterborough
2P45 1016 Peterborough - KX (Divides at KX)
1C22 1214 KX - Cambridge
1C63 1330 Cambridge - KX
2C20 1504 KX - Cambridge
2C59 1655 Cambridge - KX (Joins at KX)
2C34 1822 KX - Cambridge (Divides at Welwyn Garden City)
Empty Welwyn Garden City - KX
2P42 2034 KX - Peterborough
Empty Peterborough - Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings

Empty Peterborough Nene Carriage Sidings - Peterborogh
1P01 0540 Peterborough - KX
1C42 0652 KX - Cambridge
2C37 0825 Cambridge - KX
2C10 1004 KX - Cambridge
2C49 1155 Cambridge - KX
2P16 1334 KX - Peterborough
2P55 1516 Peterborough - KX
2V86 1659 KX - Welwyn Garden City
Empty Welwyn Garden City - KX (Joins at KX)
2C32 1822 KX - Cambridge (Divides at Royston)
1C21 2015 Cambridge - KX
2C48 2204 KX - Cambridge (Joins at Cambridge)
Empty Cambridge - Cambridge Carriage Sidings)

Empty Peterborough Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
1P03 0615 Peterborough - KX (part of triple) (divides at KX)
2P04 0734 KX - Peterborough
1P55 0930 Peterborough - KX
Empty KX - Welwyn Carriage Sidings (Joins at Welwyn Carriage Sidings)
Empty Welwyn Carriage Sidings - KX
2C28 1722 KX - Cambridge (Divides Royston)
Empty Royston - KX
2C38 2004 KX - Cambridge
1C27 2145 Cambridge - KX
2C52 2304 KX - Cambridge
Empty Cambridge - Cambridge Carriage Sidings
On Fridays instead the last part of this diagram does:
2R54 2334 KX - Letchworth
Empty Letchworth - Letchworth Carriage Sidings

Empty Peterborough Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
1P03 0615 Peterborough - KX (part of triple) (divides at KX)
Empty KX - Welwyn Garden City
2Y85 0813 Welwyn Garden City - KX (Divides at KX)
2C08 0904 KX - Cambridge
2C47 1055 Cambridge - KX
2P14 1234 KX - Peterborough
2P53 1416 Peterborough - KX
1R38 1617 KX - Royston
1R55 1712 Royston - KX (Joins at KX)
2C32 1822 KX - Cambridge (Divides at Royston)
Empty Royston - KX
2C44 2104 KX - Cambridge
Empty Cambridge - Cambridge Carriage Sidings

Empty Peterborough Carriage Sidings - Peterborough
1P03 0615 Peterborough - KX (part of triple) (divides at KX)
Empty KX - Welwyn Garden City
2Y85 0813 Welwyn Garden City - KX (Divides at KX)
2P08 0934 KX - Peterborough
2P47 1116 Peterborough - KX
2C18 1404 KX - Cambridge
2C57 1555 Cambridge - KX
2V88 1728 KX - Welwyn Garden City
Empty Welwyn Garden City - KX (Joins KX)
2C34 1852 KX - Cambridge (Divides Welwyn Garden City)
1C25 2115 Cambridge - KX
1c82 2252 KX - Cambridge (Joins Cambridge)
Empty Cambridge - Cambridge Carriage Sidings
On Fridays this diagram works the following instead:
1T24 2244 KX - Ely
Empty Ely - Cambridge Carriage Sidings

 

[387star]

Is a date set for last 321/317 workings ?

Staying with gn what is the first 313 to be painted white and do the 365s have reservation holders above the seats?

 

[D365]

Is a date set for last 321/317 workings ?

321s are all gone, no idea about the remaining 317s.

Staying with gn what is the first 313 to be painted white and do the 365s have reservation holders above the seats?

Are the 313s being repainted? Yes the Class 365s have ticket reservation slits as built but the holders have mostly been removed...

 

[387star]

321s are all gone, no idea about the remaining 317s.



Are the 313s being repainted? Yes the Class 365s have ticket reservation slits as built but the holders have mostly been removed...

One 313 is white already just wasn't sure on the number the fcc vinyls haven't aged well at all not that the colour scheme was ever smart

Interesting so did the 365s ever allow reservations... Or were these for the southeastern ?

Not all 321s have moved to greater anglia yet have they

 

[bramling]

One 313 is white already just wasn't sure on the number

Interesting so did the 365s ever allow reservations... Or were these for the southeastern ?

Not all 321s have moved to greater anglia yet have they

There are at least two 321s still on the sidings at Hornsey as of today, although not being used for service unless anyone knows different. With 12x 317s for 4x diagrams at the moment, there's no real need for 321s.

 

[D365]

Interesting so did the 365s ever allow reservations... Or were these for the southeastern ?

They're there to make it easy for tickets to be checked Don't know if there ever have been reservations, wouldn't have costed much to include anyway.

Not all 321s have moved to greater anglia yet have they

There's three left over for ScotRail I believe. To remain as Class 321s?

 

[SprinterMan]

One 313 is white already just wasn't sure on the number the fcc vinyls haven't aged well at all not that the colour scheme was ever smart

Interesting so did the 365s ever allow reservations... Or were these for the southeastern ?

Not all 321s have moved to greater anglia yet have they

Are you sure that the white 313 isn't just the one the vandals got then the graffiti removal bleached all the colour out of the vinyl?

Adam :P

 

[Hadders]

Is a date set for last 321/317 workings ?

Staying with gn what is the first 313 to be painted white and do the 365s have reservation holders above the seats?

Are you sure about 313s being painted white? The one I saw at the weekend looked white but it had simply had the FCC vinyls scrubbed abrasively, presumably to get rid of graffiti.

The 365s do have reservation holders on the seats and until the last refresh the seats were even numbered. Reservations have never been available of Great Northern or its predecessors though.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I may have missed relevant posts, but I noticed on a trip out of Paddington that the GWR 387s were labelled as 110mph max speed.
I think the GN is the only place they can do that at the moment (bar commissioning runs on the WCML).
Is there any sign they actually do that in service at the moment?
If so they will be the first UK-built EMUs to do so.

I find the layout surprisingly similar to the Turbos they are replacing (165/166), but with harder seats.
8-car obviously beats a 2/3-car Turbo to Hayes.
We left Paddington on the Relief simultaneously with an HST on the Main.
It gained on us at first, but we stormed past it alongside North Pole IEP depot.
So first impressions are impressive performance, poor seating.

 

[yorkie]

I may have missed relevant posts, but I noticed on a trip out of Paddington that the GWR 387s were labelled as 110mph max speed.

This is just a timing load. The relief lines have a maximum speed of 90mph.

 

[D365]

If so they will be the first UK-built EMUs to do so.

First to do what?

 

[Domh245]

First to do what?

I'd presume he means have a service speed of 110mph. Assuming of course that the Pendolino is discounted as despite being built in Birmingham, it is an Alstom product, and that the APT wasn't an EMU

 

[D365]

I'd presume he means have a service speed of 110mph. Assuming of course that the Pendolino is discounted as despite being built in Birmingham, it is an Alstom product, and that the APT wasn't an EMU

Do the Class 373s have enough British content in them to be considered also?

 

[Ianno87]

Are you sure about 313s being painted white? The one I saw at the weekend looked white but it had simply had the FCC vinyls scrubbed abrasively, presumably to get rid of graffiti.

The 365s do have reservation holders on the seats and until the last refresh the seats were even numbered. Reservations have never been available of Great Northern or its predecessors though.

Sitting on 1C01 now, the holders are indeed still there, along with the indent where the number would be, but without the number present any more (I do remember them pre-refurb with numbers)

 

[adamedwards]

I'd presume he means have a service speed of 110mph. Assuming of course that the Pendolino is discounted as despite being built in Birmingham, it is an Alstom product, and that the APT wasn't an EMU

350s out of Euston do 110mph on the Crewe trains. So 387s not the first. The APTs were class 370 emus too.

 

[LA50041]

350s out of Euston do 110mph on the Crewe trains. So 387s not the first. The APTs were class 370 emus too.

Although the 350's weren't uk built which was the question

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This is just a timing load. The relief lines have a maximum speed of 90mph.

I'm not talking about RTT, it's on the standard sticky "facts" label on the outside of every 387 coach.
I'm perfectly aware of the 90mph on the Reliefs, that was why I was asking if 110mph was reached in service on the ECML - the only place they can do that as the moment.

First to do what?

To spell it out, the first Derby-built EMU to exceed 100mph.
I ask because it was not straightforward for 350s to get approval for 110mph running, particularly for 2/3 pantographs.
None of the other 387 routes offer more than 100mph infrastructure.
APTs don't count, and anyway they never ran in general service.
Foreign-designed 373/374/395 don't exceed 100mph on NR infrastructure (OK, 373s did 110mph while they were on the ECML).
391s are hardly run-of-the-mill EMUs, and the crucial bits came from Italy/France.

 

[Skimble19]

I'm not talking about RTT, it's on the standard sticky "facts" label on the outside of every 387 coach.
I'm perfectly aware of the 90mph on the Reliefs, that was why I was asking if 110mph was reached in service on the ECML - the only place they can do that as the moment.



To spell it out, the first Derby-built EMU to exceed 100mph.
I ask because it was not straightforward for 350s to get approval for 110mph running, particularly for 2/3 pantographs.
None of the other 387 routes offer more than 100mph infrastructure.
APTs don't count, and anyway they never ran in general service.
Foreign-designed 373/374/395 don't exceed 100mph on NR infrastructure (OK, 373s did 110mph while they were on the ECML).
391s are hardly run-of-the-mill EMUs, and the crucial bits came from Italy/France.

There's a very simple answer to your question: no, it's not reached in service on the ECML. I can't remember the details but it's something to do with the pantograph and the overheads that has given Network Rail cause to limit them to 100mph, whether that will ever change or not I do not know.

If you do a forum search I believe Class377/5 posted a detailed reason some time back.