Class 387 to GN

[bramling]

Do you know what diagrams these are?

Earlier in the week I have seen them on 0703 WGC - London and 1758 London - wgc. I know the later isn't a heavy diagram, but not sure if that was coincidence.

The run out on the 757 Cambridge- London I suspect was a one off, but it was nice to have a seat.

I believe the current situation is as follows:

ECS Hornsey Depot - Welwyn Garden City
2Y83 0703 Welwyn Garden City - King's Cross
ECS King's Cross - Letchworth
2R35 0835 Letchworth - King's Cross
ECS King's Cross - Welwyn Carriage Sidings
ECS Welwyn Carriage Sidings - King's Cross
2V90 1758 King's Cross - Welwyn Garden City
ECS Welwyn Garden City - Hornsey Depot

ECS Letchworth Carriage Sidings - Royston
1R45 0712 Royston - King's Cross
ECS King's Cross - Welwyn Garden City
2Y87 0844 Welwyn Garden City - King's Cross
ECS King's Cross - Hornsey Depot
ECS Hornsey Depot - King's Cross
2R30 1752 King's Cross - Royston
ECS Royston - Letchworth Carriage Sidings

So, on paper, nothing north of Royston, or on the Peterborough branch. However I saw a pair yesterday on 1723 KX to Royston. If these kept to diagram, this would have taken them on two trips to Peterborough later, ending up there - if so there should have been something up from Peterborough this morning too.

 

[Failed Unit]

So will be on 317s a little longer the. Interesting the 834 is now a 317. Gone 321 ->> 387 ->> 317.

The 1758 is my backup when I can't board the 1752. An IC70 seat. Luxary. Any seat luxury.

 

[philjo]

The 17:23 Kings Cross to royston was 2x317 again this evening (as it was when I used that service on Tuesday).

I was on 1R45 (07:12 royston to KX this morning) - also 317s - plenty of seats in the rear unit when boarding at Letchworth, unlike when I used the 1R47 07:32 Royston-Kings Cross service (2x387) on Tuesday whcih was a scramble to get a seat when getting on at Letchworth.

 

[Hadders]

I got the 2022 service from Kings Cross to Stevenage which was an 8-car 387. Very full although I did manage to get a seat in the very front carriage just before departure. I'm sure there would be more seats if it was an 8-car 365.

The PIS actually appeared to work properly with no rogue announcements telling me to change for 'one' at Finsbury Park or telling me we were approaching Huntingdon as we came into Stevenage. My only complaint is the announcement still doesn't mention that it's a Great Northern service. It actually says 'This is the [pause] service to Peterborough...'

 

[Failed Unit]

On 0813 wgc to London today. The pa was telling everyone that new Barnet is a short platform with only 6 coaches able to have doors open. FFS didn't anyone test these trains PA! Very sloppy GTR

Was sat in front so don't know if doors open on last 2 coaches.

Edit: still poor from GTR but is it only 6 car northbound and that is why the 1758 doesn't stop there? But irrespective we were going south. No issue that way.

 

[aleggatta]

On 0813 wgc to London today. The pa was telling everyone that new Barnet is a short platform with only 6 coaches able to have doors open. FFS didn't anyone test these trains PA! Very sloppy GTR

Was sat in front so don't know if doors open on last 2 coaches.

Edit: still poor from GTR but is it only 6 car northbound and that is why the 1758 doesn't stop there? But irrespective we were going south. No issue that way.

Unfortunately all Electrostars default to advising the shortest platform in a station, as it does not know what platform it is coming in to until it has passed over the PIBS beacon, at the start of the platform. It is sort of a 'worst case scenario' advisory (Exactly the same situation exists with Portslade on the south coast, and has existed for years because of limitations in the PIS/allowing for the possibility of being routed into that short platform).

 

[jon0844]

My only complaint is the announcement still doesn't mention that it's a Great Northern service. It actually says 'This is the [pause] service to Peterborough...'

If there's no recording for a TOC, I am surprised the PIS doesn't use a different greeting that omits the name entirely. Then a train could be used anywhere until a new recording is added (useful for cascades or even TOC name changes).

Plus, why can't trains give the time of the service (this would mean downloading timetable data to the train, but it's 2017; not difficult). So it would say 'Welcome onboard the 1935 [Great Northern] Service to Cambridge' or something.

That would be updated at each station, so someone knows they're on the right train by the time, saving having to listen to the stopping pattern to make sure.

I know in a few, very rare, cases there might be two trains leaving at the same time from somewhere like King's Cross, but that's not really an issue.

 

[D365]

No point in having time as nobody bothers updating the clock, not on the Class 365s at least

 

[Failed Unit]

No point in having time as nobody bothers updating the clock, not on the Class 365s at least

It is always midnight in the 317s

 

[Fuzzytop]

If there's no recording for a TOC, I am surprised the PIS doesn't use a different greeting that omits the name entirely. Then a train could be used anywhere until a new recording is added (useful for cascades or even TOC name changes).

Perhaps this would be too much like common sense!

Suppose it's only like the 365s still on WAGN. Or indeed the Northern bin (321901 iirc) I was on last night, whose PIS omitted the 'is the Northern Rail service to' part at every call. Of course, this meant that each station arrival was announced as "this station is <Saltaire>, this *pause* Skipton".

 

[class387]

Just got off the delayed 0732 from Hatfield. Not pleasent.

 

[philjo]

Just got off the delayed 0732 from Hatfield. Not pleasent.

I think there were 3 train loads on this service. This is the delayed 07:03 from Letchworth, running 27 minutes late due to a train fault at Cambridge (I gather there was another broken down train near Baldock for a while)
At Letchworth the 06:56 had been cancelled. the 07:26 started from Letchworth and the 07:20 was delayed (this actually left at 07:38)
So passengers from Royston, Ashwell & Morden and Baldock were all on this one train - I had to walk through the back coach at Letchworth to find a seat. I left at WGC as it was so full it would be hard to get to the door at Potters Bar. It was leaving passengers behind at Welwyn North and WGC. as it happened the 07:20 from Letchworth was only a few minutes behind as I boarded this at WGC - 6 coach 313 with plenty of room and was much more comfortable than the 387 I was on previously! I think the 07:20 was only about 3 minutes later arriving in Potters Bar.

 

[notverydeep]

This evening 1P94, the 1737 King's Cross - Peterborough is a 12 car 317, 317346 + 317342 + 317340 all well loaded. In my 11 years of Great Northern commuting, trains formed of more than a pair of 317s have been very rare, with 365s or Dusty Bins almost always preferred...

 

[Failed Unit]

This evening 1P94, the 1737 King's Cross - Peterborough is a 12 car 317, 317346 + 317342 + 317340 all well loaded. In my 11 years of Great Northern commuting, trains formed of more than a pair of 317s have been very rare, with 365s or Dusty Bins almost always preferred...

Interesting as both 1752 kings cross to Royston and 1758 kings cross to WGC were 317s as well. The fleet lives still goes on.

Fairly rubbish day for great northern.

0627 Cambridge- London failed between baldock and letchworth. (2x 387)
0655 Cambridge - London failed at Cambridge (departed after 0727) now booked for 387s
Lots of morning short formations because of failed units.

Then tonight we had the signal failure at new Southgate.

Tomorrow hopefully will be better. For interest the 317 I went home tonight on had depot code PB on the front. Really?

 

[jon0844]

I got on a 387 at Hatfield to WGC and first was declassified so I got to sit there for the first time, and when seated you really do get to appreciate just how little there is to tell you you're in first class. Nothing on either internal door, and nothing on the walls or windows.

And they took off the First class stickers from the wrong doors but didn't move them. There's still nothing but a yellow strip outside.

I can't believe GTR thinks antimacassars are enough. There was hardly anyone on the train, so it was possible to see the seats, but if busy then I'm sorry but you could easily not notice for some time - perhaps at all.

 

[43096]

I can't believe GTR thinks antimacassars are enough. There was hardly anyone on the train, so it was possible to see the seats, but if busy then I'm sorry but you could easily not notice for some time - perhaps at all.

I'm not surprised that GTR think it is OK - they (and predecessor Southern) have long been a company that has low standards.

What I do wonder is what Trading Standards might make of this. In particular the "premium" Gatwick Express service first class offering which is likewise a doily on the back if the seat. And that's it. Looking at the fares, you pay almost £10 more for a first class anytime single over a standard class. I would suggest that GTR are ripping off their customers.

 

[Hadders]

Perhaps this would be too much like common sense!

Suppose it's only like the 365s still on WAGN. Or indeed the Northern bin (321901 iirc) I was on last night, whose PIS omitted the 'is the Northern Rail service to' part at every call. Of course, this meant that each station arrival was announced as "this station is <Saltaire>, this *pause* Skipton".

Originally the 365s used to announce 'Welcome aboard the West Anglia Great Northern Service to ....' When WAGN lost the franchise it simply became 'This service is for....'

However there is a rogue unit out there that still announces West Anglia Great Northern. I've been on it twice on the last few months. First time I heard it I did a double take.

 

[D365]

However there is a rogue unit out there that still announces West Anglia Great Northern. I've been on it twice on the last few months. First time I heard it I did a double take.

I've heard it too, surely it couldn't have been too difficult to include 'Great Northern' originally?!

 

[jon0844]

I'm not surprised that GTR think it is OK - they (and predecessor Southern) have long been a company that has low standards.

What I do wonder is what Trading Standards might make of this. In particular the "premium" Gatwick Express service first class offering which is likewise a doily on the back if the seat. And that's it. Looking at the fares, you pay almost £10 more for a first class anytime single over a standard class. I would suggest that GTR are ripping off their customers.

If first class is more likely to get you a seat, then that's what you're getting for your money. Companies are always very careful to offer anything else as free, so that if it can't be offered, you can't really complain about losing something with no value.

(It's cheeky, as clearly you may have paid for first class on an Intercity train to get food and drink, so being told there's no food or drink is going to annoy you somewhat).

In the case of Southern, Gatwick Express and Great Northern, first class may look nothing special, but it can give you a seat at busy times. Or at least if first class was more obvious AND enforced, so it wasn't just used by people who either don't know, or don't care, that it's first class.

As it stands on the GN 387s, first class is not adequately marked. And of course it's in a silly location, but I won't bring that up again. Anyone who has a first class ticket might not find it, and if that happens I wonder if they could complain. No markings on the outside (do TOCs say first class is marked with a yellow strip) makes it equally hard for those looking for it, and those who want to avoid it!

 

[physics34]

I'm not surprised that GTR think it is OK - they (and predecessor Southern) have long been a company that has low standards.

What I do wonder is what Trading Standards might make of this. In particular the "premium" Gatwick Express service first class offering which is likewise a doily on the back if the seat. And that's it. Looking at the fares, you pay almost £10 more for a first class anytime single over a standard class. I would suggest that GTR are ripping off their customers.

Really surprised that this hasnt been made more of, especially frequent Gat Ex 1st class passengers... infact a family member came back from america and wanted to see what our first class was like...assuming it would be "great" (remembering 1st class coaches of old)....so he bought a first class ticket and couldnt believe what it was like and that it was the same as standard.

There is obviously no requirement by the DfT to offer a decent first class service which is pretty surprising as higher management and directors normally travel this way. Bare minimum should be more legroom and a more comfortable seat.

 

[43096]

Really surprised that this hasnt been made more of, especially frequent Gat Ex 1st class passengers... infact a family member came back from america and wanted to see what our first class was like...assuming it would be "great" (remembering 1st class coaches of old)....so he bought a first class ticket and couldnt believe what it was like and that it was the same as standard.

There is obviously no requirement by the DfT to offer a decent first class service which is pretty surprising as higher management and directors normally travel this way. Bare minimum should be more legroom and a more comfortable seat.

I overheard people in FC a few weeks back on GatEx saying they had been ripped off.

It is particularly noticeable when comparing 387s with their 442 predecessors. There is no reason why the 387s couldn't have been kitted out like the 379s - in fact that is what should have happened. The 387s are frankly a disgrace.

 

[physics34]

I overheard people in FC a few weeks back on GatEx saying they had been ripped off.

It is particularly noticeable when comparing 387s with their 442 predecessors. There is no reason why the 387s couldn't have been kitted out like the 379s - in fact that is what should have happened. The 387s are frankly a disgrace.

considering a couple of inches of foam and a slightly different cushion design may have a made a cheap but big difference, and the seats themselves could be in use for 20 plus years...its almost clear that this has been considered and dismissed...... maybe its a ploy to lower expectations.

I feel really strongly about this but as i work for them i cant really go any further with it.

 

[Failed Unit]

For those on 317 watch. Tonight they appear on 1714 kings cross - Ely.

 

[bramling]

For those on 317 watch. Tonight they appear on 1714 kings cross - Ely.

Yes I had the spacious luxury of them earlier on the way up, they kept good time too. If they stay on diagram, they should finish with 1952 KX to Peterborough -- so watch out for them on one of the Peterborough starts in the morning.

 

[JaJaWa]

Plus, why can't trains give the time of the service (this would mean downloading timetable data to the train, but it's 2017; not difficult). So it would say 'Welcome onboard the 1935 [Great Northern] Service to Cambridge' or something.

That would be updated at each station, so someone knows they're on the right train by the time, saving having to listen to the stopping pattern to make sure.

I know in a few, very rare, cases there might be two trains leaving at the same time from somewhere like King's Cross, but that's not really an issue.

c2c manage that with the external displays on their 357 Electrostars, don't know if it's the same on their 387s.

 

[jon0844]

c2c manage that with the external displays on their 357 Electrostars, don't know if it's the same on their 387s.

Ah, yes, I forgot about that.

 

[sc597]

Evening all, I've been happily reading this thread as a GN regular. I remember when the latest rebranding happened, I was walking along Ashwell station and heard some teenagers puzzling over the new name: "But they're not great and they don't go to the north!"

Anyhow, my tuppence is (aside from mentioning just how much I despise the 317/1 with their lack of luggage space, broken seats and knee to knee fun) to say one thing that really worries me is how 'airless' the new 387s feel. No windows, no vents, regular doors along the carriage corridor, external doors that close as soon as you open them, and airtight carriage joins. The only time you feel a hint of airflow is when you hit a tunnel. If you've legged it to the train or the previous service is cancelled then you are going to have a very uncomfortable journey. All I can hope is that come summer the guys in the sheds set the temperature gauge to 'Arctic' in the same way that it is on 'Bermuda' at the moment! If passengers have no choice over the temperature surely the TOC should err low?

 

[Roast Veg]

Electrostar a/c is pretty good if turned on, I've come off a sweltering platform into a lovely cool train in the height of summer.

 

[Failed Unit]

We should maybe have a more generic thread, but I notice "Richard A Jenner" 317348 on the 1723 Royston service last night. Repainted. But surprise considering that it is going soon but i guess that was exam related. Will the 313s need heavy exams before the go? Or is the plan to have them out before they need C6s?

 

[AM9]

considering a couple of inches of foam and a slightly different cushion design may have a made a cheap but big difference, and the seats themselves could be in use for 20 plus years...its almost clear that this has been considered and dismissed...... maybe its a ploy to lower expectations.

I feel really strongly about this but as i work for them i cant really go any further with it.

The reason for the difference is that on very heavily loaded services, the real benefit of first class is that you will get a seat. Many regular travellers are willing to pay for that. By providing much greater physical luxury in first class would make flexible operation of what is really outer-suburban rolling stock much more difficult.