Class 88 UKDual & EuroDual

[Sunbird24]

Eemslift Nelli due into Workington 22:00 tonight (tues)

This is not possible. The Port operates an enclosed dock to keep berthed vessels afloat during the low water period. The dock gates are opened up to 2.5 hours prior to high water and close up to 2 hours after, dependent on the draft of vessels at berth in the dock. This vessel has a draft of 5.3 metres so can only enter and leave at high tide which is at 00:55. The ship is currently aiming to arrive shortly after midnight so that it can dock at high tide. It was previously scheduled to dock on the midday high tide but was forced to take a longer route yesterday due to heavy seas caused by a depression in the Bay of Biscay.

 

[DimTim]

Has the cargo arrived & been unloaded safely? - no further reports!

 

[Bertie the bus]

Arrived, unloaded and gone to Kingmoor. There are a number of photos of the recent arrivals in https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/albums/72157680782233476 if anybody is interested.

 

[furnessvale]

Not sure where the "fantasy bi-mode" threads are to which the mods refer so I will just park this here for the moment.

In another thread, now locked, the following was said,

"Hasn't an 88 already got a "modern AC traction package" and the "biggest emission compliant diesel engine" that could be fitted in the remaining space while remaining in UK gauge?"

I am in no way supporting the idea of converting Class 60s to Bi-mode but the above statement is only true with respect to a Bo-Bo chassis.

I have long held the view that DRS should have been more adventurous and gone for a Co-Co, or possibly even a Co-Bo chassis to accommodate a larger diesel engine.

 

[Sunbird24]

"Hasn't an 88 already got a "modern AC traction package" and the "biggest emission compliant diesel engine" that could be fitted in the remaining space while remaining in UK gauge?"

As far as I am aware the class 60, 66 & 68/88 are all virtually the same body size to meet RA7 standards, any differences being minor. The IIIB filter is almost full body width, almost full body height and almost a metre long and contains 6 large dustbin sized elements. Additionally, a Bo-Bo tends to have more space between the bogies than a Co-Co, and all that space is used in the 68/88. The PrasaDual has a higher body to accommodate everything and the new EuroDual is even bigger.

 

[furnessvale]

As far as I am aware the class 60, 66 & 68/88 are all virtually the same body size to meet RA7 standards, any differences being minor. The IIIB filter is almost full body width, almost full body height and almost a metre long and contains 6 large dustbin sized elements. Additionally, a Bo-Bo tends to have more space between the bogies than a Co-Co, and all that space is used in the 68/88. The PrasaDual has a higher body to accommodate everything and the new EuroDual is even bigger.

A 60 or 66 is over 1 metre longer than a 68 which, I suppose if necessary could accommodate another complete lllB filter.

More importantly, the extra axles would carry the weight of the larger diesel engine necessary to make the 88 into a fully grown up bi-mode.

 

[CosherB]

A 60 or 66 is over 1 metre longer than a 68 which, I suppose if necessary could accommodate another complete lllB filter.

More importantly, the extra axles would carry the weight of the larger diesel engine necessary to make the 88 into a fully grown up bi-mode.

Something like this?

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/products/euro-dual/

 

[furnessvale]

Something like this?

http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/products/euro-dual/

Yes, but I do not underestimate the difficulty of scaling the body down to UK gauge.

At least the extra axles and length give you a fighting chance.

 

[apk55]

A 60 or 66 is over 1 metre longer than a 68 which, I suppose if necessary could accommodate another complete lllB filter.

More importantly, the extra axles would carry the weight of the larger diesel engine necessary to make the 88 into a fully grown up bi-mode.

Would not the size of the filter depend on the engine output, so for a class 68 it 3 meters long?

 

[furnessvale]

Would not the size of the filter depend on the engine output, so for a class 68 it 3 meters long?

I'm sure it does, which is why the extra length of a Co-Co is as useful as the axles are for the extra weight of a more powerful engine.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well I think the 88 is what it is. There is always something else that could be added but where do you draw the line ?. In my book it is not a fully blown Bi mode for all the reasons of space etc. Its an electric loco that can operate where/when electricity is not available but is not meant to perform as well when away from the wires. Its enough to get the train into a yard, along a branch or through a failed section of electrification (or diversion).

For a true Bi-Mode the engine would be the biggest possible and the electric traction capability would need to be no larger. For the British loading gauge that would mean a pair of locomotives at least for most purposes !.

 

[Sunbird24]

Would not the size of the filter depend on the engine output, so for a class 68 it 3 meters long?

Not so, the quote was for the 68. However, it does depend on engine size, the 88 has just two, mounted side by side on the roof.
The EuroDual is a different beast altogether, the link provided was for the earlier Vossloh design. Stadler have already built a EuroDual which is 7MW electric and 3MW diesel. It is larger than the PrasaDual but apart from the Co bogies similar body design to the PrasaDual which is only a Bo-Bo.
Weight distribution also plays a big part in any redesign. It has also been said that the 68 body, at 20.5 metres cannot be any longer or it would be outside the RA7 classification.
Regardless of the above, since the 66 cannot have it fitted either why would the 60 be able to when it has the same size body.
The filters not only have to be close to the engine, they also have to be easily accessible for routine maintenance, so if they cannot be accessed from the body sides there needs to be space for the fitters to work on them inside. I have not seen either the PrasaDuals or the EuroDual from above so cannot see where they are mounted but I suspect in the roof space
Stadler have produced a very large layout diagram of the 88, though nothing is identified, here: https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e9...8a9e-1b73cc96d894/leurodualukbrlldrs0816e.pdf At maximum zoom it is still good quality. As yet they have not published similar for the PrasaDual or the EuroDual but they may appear soon.

 

[Sunbird24]

Full list of names as follows:
88001 Revolution
88002 Prometheus
88003 Genesis
88004 Pandora
88005 Minerva
88006 Juno
88007 Electra
88008 Ariadne
88009 Diana
88010 Aurora
The last 4 were out on the test track today, together with 68029 and the EuroDual which were running up and down coupled together and with both engines running, while the Eurodual was tested using both pantographs.

 

[rebmcr]

88007 Electra

Poor choice, given that Electra is the type name for Class 91s.

 

[59CosG95]

Poor choice, given that Electra is the type name for Class 91s.

Well, the names of all the 88s (bar 001 & 003) were taken from the Woodhead Electrics (Classes 76 & 77), so I don't think it was a poor choice. Inspiring names with a bit of railway heritage for those who know.

 

[TimboM]

Poor choice, given that Electra is the type name for Class 91s.

Don't think anyone's called a Class 91 an Electra since about 1991! Was a name given to them by the BR marketing department that disappeared from use soon after they went into service. Not exactly a type name on a par with something like "Deltic" - s think it's OK as a name of one of the 88s.

 

[Kneedown]

Don't think anyone's called a Class 91 an Electra since about 1991! Was a name given to them by the BR marketing department that disappeared from use soon after they went into service. Not exactly a type name on a par with something like "Deltic" - s think it's OK as a name of one of the 88s.

How about "Electro-chug" instead?

 

[Sunbird24]

Well, the names of all the 88s (bar 001 & 003) were taken from the Woodhead Electrics (Classes 76 & 77), so I don't think it was a poor choice. Inspiring names with a bit of railway heritage for those who know.

While the above is true in effect, the first use of these names (with the exception of Electra, Revolution and Genesis) was on some early steam locomotives belonging to the former Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway, according to the "ENCYCLOPAEDIA of Modern Traction NAMES" by Colin J. Marsden & Darren Ford. I have searched a little but as yet found nothing to confirm this, but that company did have nearly 300 locomotives supplied by Beyer Peacock so I will sometime check their records which I should have a copy of somewhere. The originals are held in the Stephenson Locomotive Society library. They will also have a Gorton Works list but I don't have a copy of that, though I could obtain one.
The class EM1 (some with boilers) were named after Greek Gods (except Tommy) and the class EM2 after Greek Goddesses in 1958.

 

[Sunbird24]

The remaining 4 class 88s, numbers 88006 Juno, 88007 Electra, 88009 Diana & 88010 Aurora, are now at at Sagunto port awaiting a ship to take them to Workington. Also with them are the first two class 68s for TPE, as yet unbranded but in plain lighter blue livery with plain pink primer doors on 68027 which does have its numbers on the front and sides along with the data panels. The other one is 68026 but only partially visible, appears to be the same. Nameplates cannot be seen on either of them.

 

[Bobcp]

The remaining 4 class 88s, numbers 88006 Juno, 88007 Electra, 88009 Diana & 88010 Aurora, are now at at Sagunto port awaiting a ship to take them to Workington. Also with them are the first two class 68s for TPE, as yet unbranded but in plain lighter blue livery with plain pink primer doors on 68027 which does have its numbers on the front and sides along with the data panels. The other one, believed to be 68026 but only partially visible, appears to be the same. Nameplates cannot be seen on either of them.

Many thanks for the information which is most appreciated.
Unfortunately you cannot view the photographs unless you have or open a Facebook account.
Are the locos currently parked in the same area at Sagunto as per the recent Class 88 shipment please ?
In searching Marinetraffic.com for a likely ship to make the delivery I note, coincidence or not, that all the previous DRS loco deliveries to Workington have been made using Dutch registered vessels.

 

[Sunbird24]

Many thanks for the information which is most appreciated.
Unfortunately you cannot view the photographs unless you have or open a Facebook account.
Are the locos currently parked in the same area at Sagunto as per the recent Class 88 shipment please ?
In searching Marinetraffic.com for a likely ship to make the delivery I note, coincidence or not, that all the previous DRS loco deliveries to Workington have been made using Dutch registered vessels.

Firstly, anyone can view facebooks photographs if they have the correct link which can only be obtained from the original account holder. This link should work for you https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...046.1073741997.1192973669&type=1&l=624579ee6e
The locos are parked in the same place as before.
Shipping has in the past been arranged by Osprey, more details here: http://www.ospreyltd.com/casestudy/multi-mode-importation-of-locomotives/
I assume they will have a list of agents or fleet owners who they deal with.
One Maltese registered cargo ship is arriving tomorrow morning along with a car-carrier which cannot take them.
Update: A Dutch-registered cargo ship will arrive this afternoon and I have to go there to meet it.

 

[Bobcp]

I assume the Dutch registered cargo ship arriving is the Dinteldijk.
I note that photos of this vessel indicate that it has no on-board cranes and would point out that Workington has no dockside heavy lift cranes.
I recall that when 68016/7 arrived at Workington, on board the Douwe S (no on-board cranes), in October 2015 it took in excess of six hours to set up the hired in heavy lift crane --- must have cost a small fortune to offload two locos.
Since then all deliveries have been made using vessels with on-board cranes.

 

[themiller]

Had a look online at the next 10 vessels due to arrive in Sagunto and none was suitable for the locos.

 

[Sunbird24]

Had a look online at the next 10 vessels due to arrive in Sagunto and none was suitable for the locos.

Sagunto is mainly new cars and vans followed by steel coils and scrap metal. Trams go on the RoRo vessels (Vehicle carriers as opposed to Car carriers which only take cars and small vans).
Today all the clutter around the locos was moved but then the big cranes moved over to one of the other wharves where they were loading containers. Better views of 88006/7 but the 68 between them remains unknown, all that can be seen is the top half of one cab. Something on the ground next to the locos is hiding the numbers! It's almost certainly 26 though, 29 onwards are nowhere near complete yet and 28 hasn't been seen.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The rumour at Workington when the last batch arrived was that Eemslift Nelli was going back to Sagunto to pick up the other 4 and 2 68s. The bit about the 68s appears to be true and Eemslift Nelli is heading in the right direction after visiting Germany and Denmark. Only time will tell I suppose.

 

[Sunbird24]

The rumour at Workington when the last batch arrived was that Eemslift Nelli was going back to Sagunto to pick up the other 4 and 2 68s. The bit about the 68s appears to be true and Eemslift Nelli is heading in the right direction after visiting Germany and Denmark. Only time will tell I suppose.

Arriving Las Palmas Wednesday night so if it comes here next that would be the following week sometime, Sunday at the very earliest..

 

[Bobcp]

Arriving Las Palmas Wednesday night so if it comes here next that would be the following week sometime, Sunday at the very earliest..

Interestingly sister ship Eemslift Ellen has an ETA of 09.00 today (Monday) at Las Palmas.

 

[Bobcp]

Interestingly sister ship Eemslift Ellen has an ETA of 09.00 today (Monday) at Las Palmas.

Eemslift Ellen currently departed Las Palmas and on its way to Alger, Algeria.

 

[TimboM]

Per WNXX, 88002 made the Class's self-powered debut on UK railways yesterday running on diesel power from Kingmoor through the station to turn round on the triangle (so pantograph is at the North end for testing) and then returned to Kingmoor.

 

[Sunbird24]

Forget Eemslift Nelli for a while, it is now heading south to the Ivory Coast! Eemslift Ellen is lying offshore at Alger port and I can now confirm the other 68 is indeed 68026, the steel coils blocking the view having been moved yesterday. Perhaps a ship will turn up next week, currently a huge bulk carrier is occupying the berth. I'll maybe be back there on Sunday.