Cross Country cutting out Winchester and Basingstoke stops

[RedPostJunc]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, I may have missed it, but I could not find it on a search.
Also, I cannot remember where I read this, but it was very recent.

Cross Country are withdrawing their stops at Winchester and Basingstoke as a "temporary measure" from June to September, to reduce overcrowding.
Does anybody know if this applies to all trains, or only the busiest trains? In my experience, while some services south of Reading are overcrowded, others are lightly loaded. Evening Cross Country trains south of Reading have plenty of spare seats. While I appreciate that there are problems with overcrowding on some Cross Country services, this plan makes it difficult for travellers from, say, Winchester to Oxford, who must now change at both Basingstoke and Reading.

Is this policy being applied elsewhere? There are other overcrowded Cross Country journeys where alternative services are available

I also read that when Cross Country get additional stock from AWC, they will use that to reinstate Newcastle - Reading services. I don't see how that relieves overcrowding south of Reading.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, I may have missed it, but I could not find it on a search.
Also, I cannot remember where I read this, but it was very recent.

Cross Country are withdrawing their stops at Winchester and Basingstoke as a "temporary measure" from June to September, to reduce overcrowding.
Does anybody know if this applies to all trains, or only the busiest trains? In my experience, while some services south of Reading are overcrowded, others are lightly loaded. Evening Cross Country trains south of Reading have plenty of spare seats. While I appreciate that there are problems with overcrowding on some Cross Country services, this plan makes it difficult for travellers from, say, Winchester to Oxford, who must now change at both Basingstoke and Reading.

Is this policy being applied elsewhere? There are other overcrowded Cross Country journeys where alternative services are available

I also read that when Cross Country get additional stock from AWC, they will use that to reinstate Newcastle - Reading services. I don't see how that relieves overcrowding south of Reading.

As far as I understand it’s Summer Saturdays only.

5 northbound trains from Bournemouth call at Winchester to pick up only and 6 northbound trains from Bournemouth cease to call at Basingstoke.

Southbound is 8 trains cease to call at Basingstoke and set down only at Winchester.

The OP’s mentioned journey of Winchester to Oxford or v.v. is unaffected by these changes as it’s only the Winchester to Bournemouth leg affected by the Winchester trains.

The primary purpose it’s to move Winchester to Bournemouth passengers away from short Voyager worked services to the 1/2 hourly 10 car SWR service.

 

[swt_passenger]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, I may have missed it, but I could not find it on a search.
Also, I cannot remember where I read this, but it was very recent.
Cross Country are withdrawing their stops at Winchester and Basingstoke as a "temporary measure" from June to September, to reduce overcrowding.
Does anybody know if this applies to all trains, or only the busiest trains? In my experience, while some services south of Reading are overcrowded, others are lightly loaded. Evening Cross Country trains south of Reading have plenty of spare seats. While I appreciate that there are problems with overcrowding on some Cross Country services, this plan makes it difficult for travellers from, say, Winchester to Oxford, who must now change at both Basingstoke and Reading.

It’s been mentioned somewhere in this forum, but I don’t think it was in a dedicated thread. Might be in the June timetable general discussion. Here it is, includes links to XC PR:

June 2024 Timetable Change

Good to see that, but there is still the ridiculous gap in the Neilston-Glasgow service between the 0824 and 0905 departures; And the 0905 (just now at least) is booked a 3-car only! A train which I avoid if at all possible as it becomes extremely overcrowded. Pre-Covid there was an 0841 from...

www.railforums.co.uk

I also read that when Cross Country get additional stock from AWC, they will use that to reinstate Newcastle - Reading services. I don't see how that relieves overcrowding south of Reading.

Reading to York hourly for most of the day from June 2025. But it’s been said in the ECML Dec 2024 thread that only 50% will run through to Newcastle. No sign of any extensions south of Reading as you already worked out.

 

[Kite159]

But don't worry they will continue to call at both Wolverhampton & Coventry for all those local passengers to cram onto the 4 coach trains to head to/from Birmingham New Street which will be more than any local passengers between Reading & Basingstoke or Winchester & Southampton...

If they were serious about reducing the number of local passengers doing short journeys they would be nonstop Birmingham to Stafford and nonstop Birmingham International to Leamington Spa.

I'm sure GWR will respond and provide 2 coach 165s on Basingstoke - Reading services as the 3 coach units go on holiday to the west which will be crush loaded when the voyager departs Reading carrying fresh air

 

[richa2002]

Of course none of this would be much of a problem if we weren't saddled with hugely space inefficient 4/5 car toy trains 20 years ago. Sigh.

 

[swt_passenger]

Of course none of this would be much of a problem if we weren't saddled with hugely space inefficient 4/5 car toy trains 20 years ago. Sigh.

Perhaps we could have another thread about that? On second thoughts, maybe not…

 

[RedPostJunc]

I had a look on Cross Country Trains website to see if I could find anything there.
This is what I found:

 

[JW4]

But don't worry they will continue to call at both Wolverhampton & Coventry for all those local passengers to cram onto the 4 coach trains to head to/from Birmingham New Street which will be more than any local passengers between Reading & Basingstoke or Winchester & Southampton...

If they were serious about reducing the number of local passengers doing short journeys they would be nonstop Birmingham to Stafford and nonstop Birmingham International to Leamington Spa.

There are Wolverhampton and Coventry passengers to/from Stoke-on-Trent, Stockport, Manchester, Cheltenham, Leamington, Banbury, Reading, Bristol, Southampton for whom you’d be adding a change at Birmingham or Stafford for their journeys while also removing 2tph Wolverhampton-Stafford, 2tph to Birmingham New Street and 1tph to Birmingham International and leaving Coventry-Stafford and Coventry-Wolverhampton with a solitary 1tph from Avanti. And you’d be leaving Stone with even fewer options to get to Wolverhampton, Birmingham and London.

 

[DanNCL]

There are Wolverhampton and Coventry passengers to/from Stoke-on-Trent, Stockport, Manchester, Cheltenham, Leamington, Banbury, Reading, Bristol, Southampton for whom you’d be adding a change at Birmingham or Stafford for their journeys while also removing 2tph Wolverhampton-Stafford, 2tph to Birmingham New Street and 1tph to Birmingham International and leaving Coventry-Stafford and Coventry-Wolverhampton with a solitary 1tph from Avanti. And you’d be leaving Stone with even fewer options to get to Wolverhampton, Birmingham and London.

There’s Basingstoke and Winchester passengers from all of those too!

 

[JW4]

There’s Basingstoke and Winchester passengers from all of those too!

Also true. I wouldn’t want to imagine how much journey time doing both of these would add for those.

 

[The Planner]

But don't worry they will continue to call at both Wolverhampton & Coventry for all those local passengers to cram onto the 4 coach trains to head to/from Birmingham New Street which will be more than any local passengers between Reading & Basingstoke or Winchester & Southampton...

If they were serious about reducing the number of local passengers doing short journeys they would be nonstop Birmingham to Stafford and nonstop Birmingham International to Leamington Spa.

Still would take the same time as you trundle along to keep the timetable.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I'm sure GWR will respond and provide 2 coach 165s on Basingstoke - Reading services as the 3 coach units go on holiday to the west which will be crush loaded when the voyager departs Reading carrying fresh air

Don’t know about crush loaded but the turbos definitely seem busier than the voyagers off peak.

 

[dk1]

Of course none of this would be much of a problem if we weren't saddled with hugely space inefficient 4/5 car toy trains 20 years ago. Sigh.

We are where we are unfortunately. Got to make the best of a bad job.

 

[baza585]

As far as I understand it’s Summer Saturdays only.

5 northbound trains from Bournemouth call at Winchester to pick up only and 6 northbound trains from Bournemouth cease to call at Basingstoke.

Southbound is 8 trains cease to call at Basingstoke and set down only at Winchester.

The OP’s mentioned journey of Winchester to Oxford or v.v. is unaffected by these changes as it’s only the Winchester to Bournemouth leg affected by the Winchester trains.

The primary purpose it’s to move Winchester to Bournemouth passengers away from short Voyager worked services to the 1/2 hourly 10 car SWR service.

Thank you for clarifying Summer Saturday only. It will primarily inconvenience passengers to Basingstoke and places like Andover and Salisbury who will need an extra change. I can also see problems with over carrying passengers for Basingstoke!

Personally when I go to Bournemouth for the day from Winchester I avoid the Voyagers if at all possible, but I accept they can get very busy.

 

[Kite159]

It will primarily inconvenience passengers to Basingstoke and places like Andover and Salisbury who will need an extra change.

Especially for those whom are served by the stopper from Salisbury (normally the XX:47) whom will now have an extra hour if they wanted to reach stations beyond Oxford as the voyager is the first available connection towards Reading/Oxford from Basingstoke which connects with the GWR service towards Worcester at Oxford. Just means those passengers will decide to ditch the train all together and drive.

There are Wolverhampton and Coventry passengers to/from Stoke-on-Trent, Stockport, Manchester, Cheltenham, Leamington, Banbury, Reading, Bristol, Southampton for whom you’d be adding a change at Birmingham or Stafford for their journeys while also removing 2tph Wolverhampton-Stafford, 2tph to Birmingham New Street and 1tph to Birmingham International and leaving Coventry-Stafford and Coventry-Wolverhampton with a solitary 1tph from Avanti. And you’d be leaving Stone with even fewer options to get to Wolverhampton, Birmingham and London.

And how popular is Coventry - Stafford?

That is assuming those passengers at Coventry can force themselves onto the train

 

[Starmill]

Trying to enforce set down only at Winchester is bit of a waste of time. The train will still say Bournemouth on the front, and there'll be the space vacated by the people travelling to Winchester. If the SWR service is running on time then people will naturally choose to wait for that regardless, it's quite literally five minutes behind at Winchester and seven at Bournemouth. The thing it will do of course is inhibit the sale of any Advance tickets which sort of makes sense, although there's no reason to mess about with the timetable to achieve that of course.

The other schedule changes make some sense at least.

 

[Kite159]

Trying to enforce set down only at Winchester is bit of a waste of time. The train will still say Bournemouth on the front, and there'll be the space vacated by the people travelling to Winchester. If the SWR service is running on time then people will naturally choose to wait for that regardless, it's quite literally five minutes behind at Winchester and seven at Bournemouth. The thing it will do of course is inhibit the sale of any Advance tickets which sort of makes sense, although there's no reason to mess about with the timetable to achieve that of course.

The other schedule changes make some sense at least.

Passengers will tend to board the first available train, the XC being more popular from Winchester due to being more limited stop than the SWR options, and less likely to go sailing through Winchester when running 5 minutes late as SWR have decided to send it nonstop to Southampton to regain time.

 

[endecotp]

Winchester was often suggested as the easiest place to change if travelling beyond Bournemouth (e.g. Poole, now that Cross Country doesn’t go that far). If I’ve read the posts above correctly, this still works due to the sense of the set-down/pick-up rule - is that right?

 

[infobleep]

I had a look on Cross Country Trains website to see if I could find anything there.
This is what I found:

View attachment 156584

Will there be a price increase for passengers who can't buy Cross Country only advances on the Saturdays in question or are the cost differences negligible?

 

[fgwrich]

Especially for those whom are served by the stopper from Salisbury (normally the XX:47) whom will now have an extra hour if they wanted to reach stations beyond Oxford as the voyager is the first available connection towards Reading/Oxford from Basingstoke which connects with the GWR service towards Worcester at Oxford. Just means those passengers will decide to ditch the train all together and drive.



And how popular is Coventry - Stafford?

That is assuming those passengers at Coventry can force themselves onto the train

One of those affected here! I can't say I'm impressed by this move, although this is temporary it took XC long enough to re-instate some of the pre-covid cutbacks around here. Winchester I can accept, Basingstoke is frustrating.

 

[RedPostJunc]

One of those affected here! I can't say I'm impressed by this move, although this is temporary it took XC long enough to re-instate some of the pre-covid cutbacks around here. Winchester I can accept, Basingstoke is frustrating.

Agreed. Basingstoke loses one of its two fast services per hour to/from Southampton Airport, Southampton and Bournemouth.
I can see that XC do not have enough trains to increase capacity to match passenger growth; I don't really understand why the DfT made XC withdraw their HSTs before AWC released their 221s.

The pre-Covid services from Southampton to York/Newcastle have not been reinstated yet. When they are, it looks like they will start and finish at Reading.

 

[The exile]

I can understand the theoretical logic of making a stop early in a train’s journey pick up only if the numbers of people making short distance journeys to that station are making it impossible for long-distance passengers to board (hence pick up only at Reading on busy GW services) - but the set down only at the end of a long journey makes little sense from a loading point of view. (Written while travelling Temple Meads - Parkway on a XC Bristol starter!!!)

 

[dk1]

Before they basically became a concession XC would probably not have wanted this situation due to revenue loss from the stations that are being temporarily and permanently omitted these days. In the old model they were quite happy to share the income regardless of localised overcrowding. The same could be said for any TOC back then.

 

[SWTurbo]

But don't worry they will continue to call at both Wolverhampton & Coventry for all those local passengers to cram onto the 4 coach trains to head to/from Birmingham New Street which will be more than any local passengers between Reading & Basingstoke or Winchester & Southampton...

If they were serious about reducing the number of local passengers doing short journeys they would be nonstop Birmingham to Stafford and nonstop Birmingham International to Leamington Spa.

I'm sure GWR will respond and provide 2 coach 165s on Basingstoke - Reading services as the 3 coach units go on holiday to the west which will be crush loaded when the voyager departs Reading carrying fresh air

It doesn’t get any better when the 3 cars go on holiday… currently on a F+S 3/165 which GWR have decided is suitable for the all-calls Salisbury-Bristol first thing. Oddly enough, full since Trowbridge.

I think it’s a wider GWR fleet planning issue. XC seem to be terrible for it as well.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It doesn’t get any better when the 3 cars go on holiday… currently on a F+S 3/165 which GWR have decided is suitable for the all-calls Salisbury-Bristol first thing. Oddly enough, full since Trowbridge.

I think it’s a wider GWR fleet planning issue. XC seem to be terrible for it as well.

It’s not a fleet planning issue, it’s a fleet size issue. GWR need about 8-10 more DMUs than they’ve actually got, courtesy of a long line of (mainly DfT/Treasury led) cost-cutting choices, such as binning the 769 fleet.

 

[peteb]

Winchester is far more likely to be a day trip destination from the midlands than Southampton so it's important to maintain stops to set down and pick up. Missing out Basingstoke makes journeys to (eg): Salisbury line stations complicated from the midlands, unless you go via Bristol.

 

[abn444]

It seems odd that they plan to make Winchester set down/pick up and cut out Basingstoke given the connections at Basingstoke. Surely if they insist on doing this it'd have been better to do it the other way round and make Basingstoke pick up/set down and cut out Winchester

 

[Trainman40083]

I will just comment that once they stopped the Derby to Oxford/Reading/Southampton services ,leaving just a 4/5 car hourly service through Oxford etc, I just stopped using them.

 

[Wolfie]

Especially for those whom are served by the stopper from Salisbury (normally the XX:47) whom will now have an extra hour if they wanted to reach stations beyond Oxford as the voyager is the first available connection towards Reading/Oxford from Basingstoke which connects with the GWR service towards Worcester at Oxford. Just means those passengers will decide to ditch the train all together and drive.



And how popular is Coventry - Stafford?

That is assuming those passengers at Coventry can force themselves onto the train

I don't know but believe that it's the only non-change option available.

 

[Kite159]

I don't know but believe that it's the only non-change option available.

Other than the hourly Avanti service which is normally 9 or 11 coaches.