East Midlands franchise prospectus

[Kettledrum]

Is this the right thread for this? Cannot see whether it's already posted and whether it needs it's own thread or not.

Accessibility modifications planned for EMT HSTs

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/accessibility-modifications-planned-for-midland-hsts

so when Grayling took the decision claiming the business case for MML electrification was too weak, were these modification costs factored into the decision?

 

[bunnahabhain]

A pair of EMT 158s has 292 fixed seats, while a pair of TPE 185s in their current layout has 338 fixed seats (308 standard class, with an additional 12 tip-up seats). It should be possible to increase the latter to 364 fixed seats in an all standard class layout without losing the wheelchair area if it was desired.

The DfT want first class and catering on the route to standardise the offering somewhat with other operators on the Sheffield to Liverpool section. I've also heard that they don't want 185s from a reliable source so what ends up on the route is anybodies guess. I'm half expecting it to be like B****t and be a complete and utter farce with the East Midlands Railway franchisee operating it well into the 2020s with 158s or 170s.

 

[Class 170101]

The DfT want first class and catering on the route to standardise the offering somewhat with other operators on the Sheffield to Liverpool section. I've also heard that they don't want 185s from a reliable source so what ends up on the route is anybodies guess. I'm half expecting it to be like B****t and be a complete and utter farce with the East Midlands Railway franchisee operating it well into the 2020s with 158s or 170s.

Can't see why they wouldn't want Class 185s as a train.

I expect it has more to do with the costs of leasing them. DfT don't want to pay either directly or though reduced premium payments (money diverted to lease trains instead).

 

[LowLevel]

Can't see why they wouldn't want Class 185s as a train.

I expect it has more to do with the costs of leasing them. DfT don't want to pay either directly or though reduced premium payments (money diverted to lease trains instead).

They've stipulated brand new trains only.

 

[NoOnesFool]

The HSTs already have a wheelchair toilet but I presume that's not to latest standards. Perhaps a derogation on the basis that it would be close enough with minor modifications?

For completeness there are a range of other bits and pieces needed for accessibility compliance, but none are as difficult as accessible toilets. I've always thought power doors aren't required for accessiblity as long as there are enough staff to work the slam doors.

AFAIK, the disabled toilets in First Class date back to 1996/7, when Midland Mainline refurbished them, so before the latest accessibility standards by a long stretch. They may have already had some minor tweaks made to them since though.

 

[londonmidland]

I don’t know whether this will have much (or any) affect on the Norwich/Nottingham to Liverpool EMT service (between Sheffield and Manchester) in overcrowding however TPE have tweeted that later this year every TPE South service should be formed of a six coach 185.

Pending the arrival of their new trains of course.

 

[Failed Unit]

I don’t know whether this will have much (or any) affect on the Norwich/Nottingham to Liverpool EMT service (between Sheffield and Manchester) in overcrowding however TPE have tweeted that later this year every TPE South service should be formed of a six coach 185.

Pending the arrival of their new trains of course.

Probably will, I know a 6 car 185 isn't much different to a 4 train 158 in terms of seats, but if I am travelling between Sheffield and Manchester I tend to go for EMT because of the longer train. If TPE are 6 coaches and you have a better chance of a seat I will move over. Passengers tend to get to know the longer trains and then head towards them. That said I lot of passengers do the Nottingham - Liverpool run throughout (I am one of them)

 

[Class 170101]

I don’t know whether this will have much (or any) affect on the Norwich/Nottingham to Liverpool EMT service (between Sheffield and Manchester) in overcrowding however TPE have tweeted that later this year every TPE South service should be formed of a six coach 185.

But as is being discussed on various TPE pages of this forum Manchester Airport cannot accommodate
six car Class 185s with all the other trains required to use it.

 

[edwin_m]

But as is being discussed on various TPE pages of this forum Manchester Airport cannot accommodate
six car Class 185s with all the other trains required to use it.

Hopefully before tweeting it they've agreed a modified timetable so the Cleethorpes doesn't share platforms at the Airport. Or possibly it drops and collects a unit at Piccadilly, though I can see that causing chaos with all the passengers who board the wrong portion.

 

[DanTrain]

Probably will, I know a 6 car 185 isn't much different to a 4 train 158 in terms of seats, but if I am travelling between Sheffield and Manchester I tend to go for EMT because of the longer train. If TPE are 6 coaches and you have a better chance of a seat I will move over. Passengers tend to get to know the longer trains and then head towards them. That said I lot of passengers do the Nottingham - Liverpool run throughout (I am one of them)

As long as they’re reliably 6 cars...current TPE 6 cars on the South route are frequently short formed meaning anyone with a reservation in the dropped section gets shoved in cattle class to fend for themselves, with no gaurantee of a seat!

 

[Class 170101]

Hopefully before tweeting it they've agreed a modified timetable so the Cleethorpes doesn't share platforms at the Airport. Or possibly it drops and collects a unit at Piccadilly, though I can see that causing chaos with all the passengers who board the wrong portion.

Piccadilly is a five minute turnaround so not enough to attach / detach unit I would think.

I just hope they don't have tight turnarounds at Manchster Airport instead. I think its already been shown that those don't work.

 

[Chester1]

Hopefully before tweeting it they've agreed a modified timetable so the Cleethorpes doesn't share platforms at the Airport. Or possibly it drops and collects a unit at Piccadilly, though I can see that causing chaos with all the passengers who board the wrong portion.

Its a franchise commitment. There will need to be a rewrite of the timetable in December to introduce the new units on Airport to Newcastle and Middlesbrough services. If its not rewritten TPE won't have the stock to run services. They should sort out platform space for 6 coach South TPE so services at the same time. Northern will inevitably lose out.