EMR Class 360's

[AM9]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the 360s (and 170s & 158s too for that matter) aren’t refurbished at all. There are two possible reasons why: firstly, the DfT continue their penny-pinching attitude towards the East Midlands; or secondly, maybe Abellio have realised that they’re failing so badly that they don’t stand a chance of retaining the management contract and hence there’s no incentive to do anything with the rolling stock before the inevitable happens and they get kicked out.

Personally, I think Abellio needs stripping of the management contact and the East Midlands comes under the OLR until PSOs/GBR come to fruition. There also needs to be a promise of new Connect trains to an IC level of comfort* which can interchange with Intercity diagrams once the MML is fully electrified (if extra IC capacity is needed for whatever reason). The 360s can operate as an interim solution with a much lighter refurbishment consisting of a deep clean and restoring the seats to an acceptable condition (as opposed to stripping them out and reconfiguring the layout to 2+2). A few years pain for eventual gain.

* before anybody says anything, I know that new Connect trains is wishful thinking. At least if Abellio were kicked out for incompetence, the DfT would demonstrate that it cares about the East Midlands for once.

I think that the DfT hold all regions in equal contempt, it's just when the coffers are opened affects some TOCs with trains to replace more than thos just delivered.

 

[STINT47]

Lots of four car services again today. Instead of getting on top of the reliability issues things seem to be going backwards.

A few weeks ago most services were eight cars and I thought we were starting to see progress being made.

 

[43096]

Lots of four car services again today. Instead of getting on top of the reliability issues things seem to be going backwards.

A few weeks ago most services were eight cars and I thought we were starting to see progress being made.

Two out of six diagrams look to be 4-car, with one of those going to 8-car later.

 

[spotify95]

Lots of four car services again today. Instead of getting on top of the reliability issues things seem to be going backwards.

A few weeks ago most services were eight cars and I thought we were starting to see progress being made.

It just seems like EMR Connect is more of a backwards step than anything else, based on (a) what I have seen and (b) what I have heard. And for this,we're being charged substantial fares for a non-substantial service.

Really would be easier to either (a) drive to Kettering and go to St Pancras via intercity, or (b) drive to Bedford and go via GTR...

 

[STINT47]

It just seems like EMR Connect is more of a backwards step than anything else, based on (a) what I have seen and (b) what I have heard. And for this,we're being charged substantial fares for a non-substantial service.

Really would be easier to either (a) drive to Kettering and go to St Pancras via intercity, or (b) drive to Bedford and go via GTR...

To reduce the cost I would recommend split ticketing at Bedford if your not already doing so.

 

[QSK19]

It just seems like EMR Connect is more of a backwards step than anything else, based on (a) what I have seen and (b) what I have heard. And for this,we're being charged substantial fares for a non-substantial service.

Really would be easier to either (a) drive to Kettering and go to St Pancras via intercity, or (b) drive to Bedford and go via GTR...

It’s just been a shambles from the beginning. The 360s have the potential to be a fantastic train that’s perfect for the route (even at ca 20 years old, the Desiro is a very solid train; and the refurbishment plans are promising); but Connect passengers are being horrendously let down by trains in poor condition that EMR haven’t got on top of.

If the refurbishment does actually happen (I’m getting less and less hopeful as each day goes by), at this rate it’ll take years to do all 21.

 

[A0wen]

A ridiculous situation considering Abellio won the contract nearly 3 years ago and took over in August 2019

So has had 6 months "normal" operation and the rest under Covid restrictions - hardly a fair backdrop.

IIRC the 360s were released late from GA and their reliability had been in decline. At present EMR haven't completed a year with them let alone a "normal" year.

 

[43102EMR]

So has had 6 months "normal" operation and the rest under Covid restrictions - hardly a fair backdrop.

IIRC the 360s were released late from GA and their reliability had been in decline. At present EMR haven't completed a year with them let alone a "normal" year.

It’s gotten to the point now where Covid is no longer a viable excuse - the refurbishment should happen sooner rather than later, especially as more and more passengers on the Corby route are returning to find their luxury intercity service replaced with a mediocre commuter one.

 

[43066]

It just seems like EMR Connect is more of a backwards step than anything else, based on (a) what I have seen and (b) what I have heard. And for this,we're being charged substantial fares for a non-substantial service.

If you’re coming from Wellingborough, yes it probably is. Kettering and Bedford passengers are pretty chuffed with the service, by all accounts.

Really would be easier to either (a) drive to Kettering and go to St Pancras via intercity, or (b) drive to Bedford and go via GTR...

You’d probably drive to Bedford and still end up on a 360 when you realise the EMR service is 20 mins quicker than the fastest GTRs.

Yes the 360 interior is a little tired but honestly I’d rather 40 minutes in one of those than an hour in a 700 seat (I personally find the 700s fine for short journeys, but rapidly become less comfortable for anything over half an hour or so).

 

[A0wen]

It’s gotten to the point now where Covid is no longer a viable excuse - the refurbishment should happen sooner rather than later, especially as more and more passengers on the Corby route are returning to find their luxury intercity service replaced with a mediocre commuter one.

How could the refurbishment have happened sooner? The first units weren't released from GA until mid 2020, they went to Northampton to have the 110mph mods done, then they went into training service in preparation for the service launch in May 2021.

The contractors who do the refurbs are behind schedule because the work they were doing when Covid hit got stopped / delayed and that will be true of all contractors, so it's not as if EMR could send them somewhere else - because all contractors will be working through a backlog.

So as you're so clever, how would you solve this?

Covid's not an excuse, it's a "fact" - it's a fact that it has delayed many things in manufacturing circles and there is no easy way to "recover" those delays.

 

[bramling]

If you’re coming from Wellingborough, yes it probably is. Kettering and Bedford passengers are pretty chuffed with the service, by all accounts.



You’d probably drive to Bedford and still end up on a 360 when you realise the EMR service is 20 mins quicker than the fastest GTRs.

Yes the 360 interior is a little tired but honestly I’d rather 40 minutes in one of those than an hour in a 700 seat (I personally find the 700s fine for short journeys, but rapidly become less comfortable for anything over half an hour or so).

Reliability aside, I can’t really see the fuss. A half-hourly 8-car service is pretty decent in my view - Corby is no further out than Huntingdon, which is served by EMUs including the uncomfortable 700s.

The only other change I’d make is probably to knock out the Luton call. Luton is well enough served by GTR IMO.

I know some Wellingborough users who aren’t happy, though on discussion the worst problem is apparently short notice platform alterations in the up direction which has led to people being left behind on occasions.

 

[MML]

How could the refurbishment have happened sooner? The first units weren't released from GA until mid 2020, they went to Northampton to have the 110mph mods done, then they went into training service in preparation for the service launch in May 2021.

The contractors who do the refurbs are behind schedule because the work they were doing when Covid hit got stopped / delayed and that will be true of all contractors, so it's not as if EMR could send them somewhere else - because all contractors will be working through a backlog.

So as you're so clever, how would you solve this?

Covid's not an excuse, it's a "fact" - it's a fact that it has delayed many things in manufacturing circles and there is no easy way to "recover" those delays.

EMR knew they were taking 360s long before their delayed delivery from GA and well before COVID was even known about. Yet today, they have still not signed a deal for the internal refurbishment of the units. A sensible company would have designed and procured a refit before they arrived in advance of COVID. True COVID may have slowed the refurbishment process, but they still haven't signed a deal.
And not 1 of the units currently languishing unserviceable in sidings has been sent to a contractor to perform interior refit work.
Kettering passengers will use the half hourly nonstop Intercity service from Nottingham, rather the stopping Connect service. But it still doesn't excuse the poor reliability with regular short forms of 4 car units when 12 cars were promised in the peaks.

 

[A0wen]

EMR knew they were taking 360s long before their delayed delivery from GA and well before COVID was even known about. Yet today, they have still not signed a deal for the internal refurbishment of the units. A sensible company would have designed and procured a refit before they arrived in advance of COVID. True COVID may have slowed the refurbishment process, but they still haven't signed a deal.
And not 1 of the units currently languishing unserviceable in sidings has been sent to a contractor to perform interior refit work.
Kettering passengers will use the half hourly nonstop Intercity service from Nottingham, rather the stopping Connect service. But it still doesn't excuse the poor reliability with regular short forms of 4 car units when 12 cars were promised in the peaks.

If you don't know when you are going to get the units, how do you sign a contract, which will secure what is effectively a slot on a production line?

And your evidence that EMR haven't signed a contract is........

 

[43066]

Reliability aside, I can’t really see the fuss. A half-hourly 8-car service is pretty decent in my view - Corby is no further out than Huntingdon, which is served by EMUs including the uncomfortable 700s.

Isn’t there a long running fare anomaly which makes Wellingborough more expensive than other similar distance towns, because it was never part of NSE, hence intercity pricing? I sort of get that complaint because people were (and are!) paying for an intercity service and now they aren’t getting that.

On the other hand, the true answer to that is probably that Wellingborough should never have been regarded as an intercity destination in the first place.

The other thing to factor in is that the EMR intercity service has been substantially improved, with destinations further north now having all day services which don’t stop south of Kettering. Loadings at Leicester in particular are far more evenly split as there’s much less difference between the fast ex Sheffield and the slow ex Notts.

It’s difficult to conclude that these improvements aren’t at the expense of Wellingborough passengers, though, who now have a slightly slower service, in outer suburban rolling stock, with no trolley service or proper first class.

The only other change I’d make is probably to knock out the Luton call. Luton is well enough served by GTR IMO.

Your knowledge here will be far superior to mine, but I understood there a very limited stop GTR service which was deleted to make way for the Connects?

Agreed, no great hardship to remove the Luton call, but then again it doesn’t make that much difference to serve both, if you’re already stopping at one of the two. And of course Luton airport seems to be in the ascendency (no pun intended!) so parkway passengers should increase rapidly.

 

[bramling]

Isn’t there a long running fare anomaly which makes Wellingborough more expensive than other similar distance towns, because it was never part of NSE, hence intercity pricing?

I sort of get that complaint because people were (and are!) paying for an intercity service and now they aren’t getting that.

On the other hand, the true answer to that is probably that Wellingborough should never have been regarded as an intercity destination in the first place.

Yes I believe this is a long-standing gripe locally.

As you say, this situation probably shouldn’t have existed in the first place, but it no doubt a throwback to the days when people didn’t commute as far. Wellingborough, Kettering (and Market Harborough) all act as parkway stations for some rather well-heeled outlying areas, rather more so than the towns themselves. The balance of clientele has likely shifted over time.

The other thing to factor in is that the EMR intercity service has been substantially improved, with destinations further north now having all day services which don’t stop south of Kettering. Loadings at Leicester in particular are far more evenly split as there’s much less difference between the fast ex Sheffield and the slow ex Notts.

It’s difficult to conclude that these improvements aren’t at the expense of Wellingborough passengers, though, who now have a slightly slower service, in outer suburban rolling stock, with no trolley service or proper first class.



Your knowledge here will be far superior to mine, but I understood there a very limited stop GTR service which was deleted to make way for the Connects?

Agreed, no great hardship to remove the Luton call, but then again not making that much difference to serve both, if you’re already stopping at one of the two.

I’m not as familiar with the Midland side of Thameslink as I am with the GN side, however I *think* the “Thameslink Express” services were implemented in May 18, to pacify Bedford users in particular when they lost their EMR calls. This in turn upset users at places like Harpenden who AIUI lost calls, as the express services were simply the same services but with stops removed and timings adjusted.

The introduction of the Corby EMU service essentially then had places like Harpenden get the calls they would have had, though of course Covid has affected things so some of these services may well be or have been missing altogether (the Midland side has seen so many changes due to Covid I’ve lost track of what actually runs now!).

With regards to Luton, I must admit my suggestion was semi facetious. My place has a contingent of people who travel in from Bedford and Wellingborough, and one of their dislikes about the current service is that it gets overrun with Luton passengers. Hence my suggestion was more from a “quality” perspective than an operational one. I guess part of the grievance is that hitherto they would have been on a peak-time service non-stop from London to Wellingborough (and quite possibly an HST as well?), so I can understand being irritated if the service flood fills with people to or from Luton.

 

[MML]

If you don't know when you are going to get the units, how do you sign a contract, which will secure what is effectively a slot on a production line?

And your evidence that EMR haven't signed a contract is........

You sign a contract to book a slot and get your foot in the door so to speak. Any delay then becomes the issue for the repair organisation and a rescheduled plan is normally found with mutual agreement.

As for how do I know it hasn't been signed.
Because the EMR propaganda machine hasn't been shouting it from the rooftops. They trumpeted the work with the design organisation months ago. If they'd have signed an agreement, the PR machine would have gone into overdrive and press releases would have been flying.
Back to reality, today we don't have a 4-car unit we have no unit and cancelled services.

 

[A0wen]

You sign a contract to book a slot and get your foot in the door so to speak. Any delay then becomes the issue for the repair organisation and a rescheduled plan is normally found with mutual agreement.

Not quite, you may secure a slot, but late presentation of materials i.e. the units would lead to a penalty on EMR.

And all such contracts would have a 'force majeure' clause in them - which Covid would definitely be. So it wouldn't be "the supplier's problem".

As for how do I know it hasn't been signed.
Because the EMR propaganda machine hasn't been shouting it from the rooftops. They trumpeted the work with the design organisation months ago. If they'd have signed an agreement, the PR machine would have gone into overdrive and press releases would have been flying.

Or in other words, you don't.

Lots of four car services again today. Instead of getting on top of the reliability issues things seem to be going backwards.

A few weeks ago most services were eight cars and I thought we were starting to see progress being made.

For all the complaints about "4 car sets", it's worth pointing out that a 5 car 222 has a seating capacity of 242 - 192 standard / 50 first (source Eversholt), whereas a 4 car 360 has 280 - 264 standard / 16 first (accepted that's as is, so 3+2) even if they were reseated to 2+2 the 360s would be over 200 (the very similar 350/4s were 210 with 2+2 seating). And the services the 360s are on originate from Corby, rather than Leicester and beyond, so don't arrive at Kettering half full before getting to Wellingborough, Bedford or Luton.

So whilst 8 cars would be preferable, the reality is 4 car 360s are offering more seats than 5 car Meridians which provided the vast majority of the services before.

Isn’t there a long running fare anomaly which makes Wellingborough more expensive than other similar distance towns, because it was never part of NSE, hence intercity pricing? I sort of get that complaint because people were (and are!) paying for an intercity service and now they aren’t getting that.

On the other hand, the true answer to that is probably that Wellingborough should never have been regarded as an intercity destination in the first place.

Yes I believe this is a long-standing gripe locally.

As you say, this situation probably shouldn’t have existed in the first place, but it no doubt a throwback to the days when people didn’t commute as far. Wellingborough, Kettering (and Market Harborough) all act as parkway stations for some rather well-heeled outlying areas, rather more so than the towns themselves. The balance of clientele has likely shifted over time.

It actually predates NSE - if anything it goes back to the "Bedpan" electrification of the late 70s / early 80s. AIUI there was consideration of extending it to Kettering - which would have addressed today's issue 40 years ago. Instead for probably financial reasons the decision was to stop the wiring at Bedford and serve Wellingborough and Kettering with Inter City services, which lead to the prices being set higher. There is a *big* jump when you compare Bedford - London to Wellingborough or Kettering and London or even Northampton - London.

 

[Skymonster]

And your evidence that EMR haven't signed a contract is........

EMR takes stock

East Midlands Railway MD WILL ROGERS and Operations Director PAUL BARNFIELD update PHILIP SHERRATT on progress with the operator’s investment plan

www.modernrailways.com

This was October 2021. See quote below… Also note EMR said it would announce full details of the refurb once it had been finalised, and seeing as that announcement hasn’t been made it seems reasonable to assume the details haven’t been finalised. Q3 this year for out shopping the first is beginning to get tight if contracts have indeed not been signed yet. And is the current service really “predominantly eight-car”?

The Siemens Class 360 fleet has settled in reasonably well, although some teething troubles are being worked through. The ‘360s’ are currently operating in predominantly eight-car formations; Mr Rogers says 12-car working will be introduced when demand merits. But a priority now is refurbishing the interiors of these units, which are currently operating with the 3+2 seating layouts that they had when used by Greater Anglia.

‘The principle is to bring them up to a similar standard as our Aurora fleet’ Mr Rogers says, referencing the 33x5-car Class 810 bi-modes EMR has ordered from Hitachi for Nottingham and Sheffield services. ‘This means using the same seats and colourings, and we’ve done a lot of work on things like seat pitch and tables. We’re in the final stages of developing the specification.’

EMR will then look to let a contract for the work, with the first refurbished unit expected to be outshopped in Quarter 3 of next year. One question yet to be resolved is whether First Class will be provided on the ‘360s’ following refurbishment; the sets are currently operating with the small First Class areas declassified. In the meantime, a repaint programme has begun at Eastleigh; two units were vinyled in EMR’s purple livery for the launch of the service in May.

Note also, while off topic in terms of 360s, here’s something else EMR has promised and which it now has less than two months to complete.

The Class 222s, on the other hand, are high-performing and a winner of multiple Golden Spanner awards. Plans are in hand to reform the fleet, which currently comprises 6x7-car, 17x5-car and 4x4-car units. The aim is to standardise around five-car sets as much as possible, with two vehicles each to be removed from two sevencar sets and inserted into the fourcars, leaving EMR with 4x7-car and 23x5-cars. Some changes to seating layouts may be needed as part of this reconfiguration, although details are yet to be confirmed. This change is expected to be completed in time for the May 2022 timetable;

“Fiddling while Rome burns“ is the term that most comes to mind when thinking of Abellio’s management of the Eat Midlands train operation.

 

[A0wen]

Note also, while off topic in terms of 360s, here’s something else EMR has promised and which it now has less than two months to complete.

“Fiddling while Rome burns“ is the term that most comes to mind when thinking of Abellio’s management of the Eat Midlands train operation.

Why would they start re-forming the 222s now ? They've got to run the existing timetable and maintain capacity for the next ~ 8 weeks including over the Easter holiday.

I can't imagine the 're-forming' the units is a huge job - it would probably be done in the couple of weeks up to the timetable change, so no point in doing it now and creating potential capacity problems.

 

[DaveN]

I’m not as familiar with the Midland side of Thameslink as I am with the GN side, however I *think* the “Thameslink Express” services were implemented in May 18, to pacify Bedford users in particular when they lost their EMR calls. This in turn upset users at places like Harpenden who AIUI lost calls, as the express services were simply the same services but with stops removed and timings adjusted.

That's correct. Of the full Thameslink Programme 24tph, 4tph were peak time "faster" services to Bedford all of which were to call at St Albans, Harpenden and Luton. Half were to call at Flitwick and half Leagrave. At present there's a single morning one that calls at Flitwick and a single evening one that calls at Leagrave. In terms of journey times this makes the biggest difference to Bedford and Flitwick of course. It shows how times have changed that there aren't massive complaints from St Albans commuters about this.

 

[MML]

Not quite, you may secure a slot, but late presentation of materials i.e. the units would lead to a penalty on EMR.

And all such contracts would have a 'force majeure' clause in them - which Covid would definitely be. So it wouldn't be "the supplier's problem".



Or in other words, you don't.



For all the complaints about "4 car sets", it's worth pointing out that a 5 car 222 has a seating capacity of 242 - 192 standard / 50 first (source Eversholt), whereas a 4 car 360 has 280 - 264 standard / 16 first (accepted that's as is, so 3+2) even if they were reseated to 2+2 the 360s would be over 200 (the very similar 350/4s were 210 with 2+2 seating). And the services the 360s are on originate from Corby, rather than Leicester and beyond, so don't arrive at Kettering half full before getting to Wellingborough, Bedford or Luton.

So whilst 8 cars would be preferable, the reality is 4 car 360s are offering more seats than 5 car Meridians which provided the vast majority of the services before.




It actually predates NSE - if anything it goes back to the "Bedpan" electrification of the late 70s / early 80s. AIUI there was consideration of extending it to Kettering - which would have addressed today's issue 40 years ago. Instead for probably financial reasons the decision was to stop the wiring at Bedford and serve Wellingborough and Kettering with Inter City services, which lead to the prices being set higher. There is a *big* jump when you compare Bedford - London to Wellingborough or Kettering and London or even Northampton - London.

Or maybe I do know.

 

[Energy]

Or in other words, you don't.

Going from public knowledge it isn't an unsafe assumption that the contract hasn't been signed, if EMR will write press releases because they are going to (not have) install new signage at 8 stations then I'd be surprised if they didn't do a press release for refurbishing the 360s. @MML does look to have inside knowledge as well going by the recent post.

Though the capacity is the same going from a 222 to a 3+2 360 the quality of the interior is pretty different...

 

[Helvellyn]

Isn’t there a long running fare anomaly which makes Wellingborough more expensive than other similar distance towns, because it was never part of NSE, hence intercity pricing? I sort of get that complaint because people were (and are!) paying for an intercity service and now they aren’t getting that.

On the other hand, the true answer to that is probably that Wellingborough should never have been regarded as an intercity destination in the first place.

The other thing to factor in is that the EMR intercity service has been substantially improved, with destinations further north now having all day services which don’t stop south of Kettering. Loadings at Leicester in particular are far more evenly split as there’s much less difference between the fast ex Sheffield and the slow ex Notts.

It’s difficult to conclude that these improvements aren’t at the expense of Wellingborough passengers, though, who now have a slightly slower service, in outer suburban rolling stock, with no trolley service or proper first class.

Yes, Wellingborough and Kettering both had a roughly 90-minute off-peak interval service in the early 1990s, slightly higher in the peaks. Partly contributes to lower house prices (certainly Wellingborough) than Northampton and Peterborough that developed a "healthier" long distance commuter market from the late 1980s onwards. I'm surprised NSE never made a pitch to extend electrification northward under Thameslink (a bit like happened with Hitchin to Huntingdon, then to Peterborough), which as you say would have allowed InterCity to potentially speed up the MML services. Then again, I wonder if load factors were such that InterCity didn't want to give up those markets?

In the peaks Wellingborough now has a less frequent service - before electrification (and effectively pre-Covid) there were approx five trains between 07:00 and 08:00; now it's two because of the half-hourly frequency of EMR connect. Yes, there should (in theory) be more seats but for returning commuters it will be a bit of a shock. Same in the evening peak where there are fewer options. The service is also slower, as they were either non-stop to St Pancras or one-stop only (Luton or Luton Airport). Now it's three stops.

Off-peak the half-hourly service is better because the pre-electrification timetable had two services effectively ten minutes apart, then a fifty minute gap. The journey time is also still comparable because the off-peak Corby terminator stopped at the same stations the EMR Connect service did.

Other losses:

• First Class. Was meant to be temporary but suggestions that DfT won't reinstate it when (if?) the 360s are refurbished. Kettering keeps it on 2/4 trains per hour, but Corby will also lose it. Bedford, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway passengers can still buy First Class on Thameslink. So bar a couple of services it's gone for Wellingborough.
• Northward connections. Couple of early/late trains still have connections North, but otherwise it's a change at Kettering. This might be bearable if to get to Derby, Chesterfield and Sheffield now also needs a second connection at Leicester (or East Mids Parkway depending on preference). Because the Sheffield services depart St Pancras ahead of the Nottingham ones it's not the shortest of connections. It would have been better to stop the semi-fast Sheffield at Kettering instead of the fast Nottingham. Whilst that would have removed the clockface InterCity pattern for Kettering - St Pancras, given Connect has that it would have at least provide a one-stop interchange at Kettering between the EMR Connect stations and all the EMR InterCity stations.

It's highly unlikely to happen but it would be nice if EMR sponsored an expansion of the Network/Goldcard area to add Wellingborough. This would at least reflect it being effectively shifted to being a London & South Eastern station.

It actually predates NSE - if anything it goes back to the "Bedpan" electrification of the late 70s / early 80s. AIUI there was consideration of extending it to Kettering - which would have addressed today's issue 40 years ago. Instead for probably financial reasons the decision was to stop the wiring at Bedford and serve Wellingborough and Kettering with Inter City services, which lead to the prices being set higher. There is a *big* jump when you compare Bedford - London to Wellingborough or Kettering and London or even Northampton - London.

Yep, hence lots of people promoting split ticketing for day trips now all EMR Connect services stop at Bedford!

The pricing differential can be seen though that if you want an Annual Season between Wellingborough-Bedford (there are no intermediate stations, journey takes 13 minutes) the cost is £2,024. If you want an Annual Season between Wellingborough-Kettering (again no intermediate stations, although journey only takes 8 minutes) the cost is £808.00!

 

[A0wen]

I'm surprised NSE never made a pitch to extend electrification northward under Thameslink (a bit like happened with Hitchin to Huntingdon, then to Peterborough), which as you say would have allowed InterCity to potentially speed up the MML services. Then again, I wonder if load factors were such that InterCity didn't want to give up those markets?

I'm not - don't forget NSE operated the Bedford - Corby DMU shuttle in the mid / late 80s which wasn't exactly a resounding success.

Electrification of the ECML was always on the cards and I don't think NSE had to lobby particularly hard for that one.

 

[edwin_m]

Didn't the 319s have Corby on their destination blinds from new?

 

[YSTrains]

Can the 360s be considered an Airport express train too?

 

[507020]

Can the 360s be considered an Airport express train too?

They can in Thailand

 

[YSTrains]

Well I meant EMR specifically.

 

[QSK19]

Can the 360s be considered an Airport express train too?

No doubt the 360s will be treated as such by at least some, even if they are not marketed as such - you’ll invariably get some who will be dragging their bags up to platform 1 at STP.

Nevertheless, if the 360s actually get the promised refurbishment (though my doubts are going every day!), presumably consideration has been given to installing extra luggage storage space for travellers to/from LTN?

 

[swt_passenger]

Well I meant EMR specifically.

EMR have definitely described it as providing a fast 2tph Airport service, it was described in the Dec 2020 consultation/brief for the new timetable as ”New London Luton Airport express service – running every 30 minutes and linking the airport with central London in just 22 minutes”.

I think what then happened was some of the mass media wrongly took that to mean a shuttle to/from Luton Airport Parkway, rather than the service to Corby.

As reported below Luton Airport themselves seemed to be suggesting early last year that the new EMU timetable was a first step to providing a branded Luton Airport Express. I think it was discussed at the time here, and the consensus was that there was no intention to brand the service as such:

London Luton Airport (LLA) has welcomed the news that East Midlands Railway (EMR) is to introduce a new half-hourly non-stop service between London St Pancras and Luton Airport Parkway.

The new service will be introduced as part of the May timetable change and is the first significant step towards a separately-branded ‘Luton Airport Express’ service. The service will operate using electric trains and run every 30 minutes between 06:00 and 22:00 daily, with additional late night and early morning services to serve departures from the airport.

London Luton Airport welcomes new direct rail service | Airport Business

London Luton Airport has welcomed the news that East Midlands Railway is to introduce a new half-hourly non-stop service between London St Pancras and Luto

www.airport-business.com