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Kings Cross to Cleethorpes - LNER

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I__

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Does anyone know if KGX to CLE - CLE to KGX will be starting or if it still is?

This article says it was meant to start this year, but there have been no updates since.

I live along the Lincoln section of the line and it would be weird to see Azumas!

Thanks!
 
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Watershed

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Does anyone know if KGX to CLE - CLE to KGX will be starting or if it still is?

This article says it was meant to start this year, but there have been no updates since.

I live along the Lincoln section of the line and it would be weird to see Azumas!

Thanks!
It's not starting in December 22. It will start as part of the recast ECML timetable, which is currently postponed and is unlikely to come into effect in May 23 but might do in December 23. One of the prerequisites is additional platforming capacity at Cleethorpes, due to the proposed timings (as Cleethorpes station is used by EMR & TPE to stable units overnight). This should be available in time for either of these dates, following upcoming works to bring platform 4 back into use.
 

I__

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New update:

https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2023/02...y-of-direct-cleethorpes-to-london-train-route

"A direct train route from Cleethorpes to London Kings Cross could be on the horizon, 30 years after it ground to a halt.

Three Lincolnshire MPs have announced their hopes of work starting on the route as early as May next year.
Speculation of a direct London route to and from North East Lincolnshire has been ongoing for many years, with members of Parliament appealing to Network Rail on multiple occasions in recent times.
It has been 30 years since a train to London ran from that area of coastal Lincolnshire, and it has been argued that a return for the service would boost the local economy and tourism prospects.

However, negotiations now appear to be gathering momentum, after three Lincolnshire MPs met with the managing director at London North Eastern Railway on Wednesday to discuss the plans.
Lincolnshire MPs met with LNER boss David Horne about the prospect of a returning Cleethorpes to London train route.

Great Grimsby MP Lia Nici, Gainsborough MP Sir Edward Leigh, and Cleethorpes MP Martin Vickers held a virtual meeting with LNER boss David Horne to outline their suggestions for the route.
The local stops within this route would involve all three of the constituencies of these MPs, passing through Cleethorpes, Grimsby, Lincoln and Market Rasen on its way to the capital.
Lia Nici says that the first stage of authorisation and checks are now complete, after ensuring that Azuma trains could fit along the route.

The next stage will involve a test run of the route, and the trio will meet with Transport Secretary Huw Merriman next week to discuss when this can be started.

It is hoped that, with approval, construction of the route can begin in May 2024, though a completion date is unclear at present."
 
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mtmikethom

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Seem to recall the original plan was that it would not stop at Market Rasen because the platforms & possibly the foot crossing would cost too much to improve, wouldn't be surprised if it routed via Scunthorpe if ever got off the ground
 

Failed Unit

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Seem to recall the original plan was that it would not stop at Market Rasen because the platforms & possibly the foot crossing would cost too much to improve, wouldn't be surprised if it routed via Scunthorpe if ever got off the ground

I doubt it will route via Scunthorpe, as the extension of an existing Lincoln services costs them no more paths. LNER don’t have any Doncaster terminators so it would require a new path.

If you were to extend an existing service the 1906 London - Cleethorpes would work as it would go ECS back to Doncaster anyway so doing that from Cleethorpes is a possibility.

Stops at Market Rasen, Barnetby etc I agree are unlikely. But EMR operate trains that block the foot crossing without issues. Back in the HST days that didn’t happen as the stop board was positioned so only the rear of the train was on the platforms. Don’t see why they can’t do that again.

If they were doing a token gesture, the 1606 (which terminates at Lincoln around 1800) could get to Cleethorpes and back by 2027 so provide the service with no extra stock or staff. I suspect that a train around 1920 from Cleethorpes - London probably would not be popular and Thus unlikely.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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For all his right wing credentials Edward Leigh MP has been a constant advocate for this service and has raised in HoC numerous times even at PMQs
 

55002

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I remember watching the last ever one through Newark, can’t believe it was 30 years ago! Also remember the last loco hauled one
 

Route115?

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A good start would be to hold connections at Grantham. I missed the one off the 10:06 from Kings X by a minute recently. People going to Boston were not amused! Will Great British Railways see a more network aproach to connections?
 

55002

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A good start would be to hold connections at Grantham. I missed the one off the 10:06 from Kings X by a minute recently. People going to Boston were not amused! Will Great British Railways see a more network aproach to connections?
Same at Newark that for a long time..2 different companies so often don’t get held. Customers bit of an inconvenience to running a railway
 

TheBigD

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A good start would be to hold connections at Grantham. I missed the one off the 10:06 from Kings X by a minute recently. People going to Boston were not amused! Will Great British Railways see a more network aproach to connections?

Hold eastbound Skegness trains at Grantham and you would then delay the westbound trains from Skegness at Heckington, where it has to wait for the single line to Sleaford. Usually less than 5 minutes between trains, and the signalling doesn't allow for the ex Skegness train to approach the platform whilst the ex Grantham train is also approaching off the single line.
 

DanNCL

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I doubt it will route via Scunthorpe, as the extension of an existing Lincoln services costs them no more paths. LNER don’t have any Doncaster terminators so it would require a new path.
Running via Doncaster is possible without extra paths as it could run as a 5 car unit attached to an existing 5 car diagram south of Doncaster. For example it could go south on 1A12 (0700 Hull - Kings Cross), and return north on 1D26 (1803 Kings Cross - Skipton).
 

TheBigD

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This what was proposed for the (not implemented) May 2022 timetable...

(Not Sundays)
0625 ex Cleethorpes, calling at Grimsby 0632, Lincoln 0730, Newark 0756, Grantham 0808, Peterborough 0829, Kings Cross 0925.

(Everyday)
1610 ex Kings Cross calling at Peterborough 1656, Newark 1727, Lincoln 1801, Grimsby 1905, Cleethorpes 1920.

The was also a note about calling points and scheduling at Cleethorpes needing more work etc etc.
 

Failed Unit

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This what was proposed for the (not implemented) May 2022 timetable...

(Not Sundays)
0625 ex Cleethorpes, calling at Grimsby 0632, Lincoln 0730, Newark 0756, Grantham 0808, Peterborough 0829, Kings Cross 0925.

(Everyday)
1610 ex Kings Cross calling at Peterborough 1656, Newark 1727, Lincoln 1801, Grimsby 1905, Cleethorpes 1920.

The was also a note about calling points and scheduling at Cleethorpes needing more work etc etc.
I guess that would sort of work today, they could still get the unit back to Lincoln to do the 2027 Lincoln - London either as ECS or in service.
 

trawler

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This all started again when the Hull & Humber Chamber of Commerce and my organisation The City of Hull & Humber Environment Forum was asked by a local MP to look in to this. We met with the Dft in London, Network Rail and with LNER in York. We then built up a proposal to run a service via Lincoln (Working ECS to Doncaster each way) one return trip. North and North East Lincolnshire Councils both came onboard and supported the proposal helping develop technical detail. We have done as much as we can and hopefully this will eventually happen.
 

800001

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Now due to start May 2024, and will be 0730 Lincoln to Kings Cross starting back at Cleethorpes, unsure of the evening service.
 

55002

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Now due to start May 2024, and will be 0730 Lincoln to Kings Cross starting back at Cleethorpes, unsure of the evening service.
Exactly like the 80s wasn’t it 0600 or 0615 from Cleethorpes back then?
 

I__

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This may be the start of LNER testing their Azuma's along the Lincoln to Barnetby/Cleethorpes line for the services.
The following schedules were added early this morning.

LCN - CLE:


CLE - LCN:

What does everybody think?

This may be the start of LNER testing their Azuma's along the Lincoln to Barnetby/Cleethorpes line for the services.
The following schedules were added early this morning.

LCN - CLE:


CLE - LCN:

What does everybody think?
To/from the depot:

 
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Bill57p9

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The to/from depot is via Scunthorpe, so looks like a proving run for different routes (as LNER already sign Doncaster to Lincoln via Gainsborough)
 

Class 170101

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Real Times Trains version for those that use RTT.

Seems an unlikely stopping pattern but Lincoln Central, Market Rasen, Barnetby, Habrough, Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes?
 

TheBigD

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Real Times Trains version for those that use RTT.

Seems an unlikely stopping pattern but Lincoln Central, Market Rasen, Barnetby, Habrough, Grimsby Town and Cleethorpes?

That was also the stopping pattern for the service when it was HST operated back in the days of yesteryear.
 

TheWalrus

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It's not starting in December 22. It will start as part of the recast ECML timetable, which is currently postponed and is unlikely to come into effect in May 23 but might do in December 23. One of the prerequisites is additional platforming capacity at Cleethorpes, due to the proposed timings (as Cleethorpes station is used by EMR & TPE to stable units overnight). This should be available in time for either of these dates, following upcoming works to bring platform 4 back into use.
What’s the recast ECML timetable going to look like?
 

Watershed

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What’s the recast ECML timetable going to look like?
It's now been indefinitely paused, unless the government changes its mind again and is willing to get the chequebook out...
 

Failed Unit

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Now due to start May 2024, and will be 0730 Lincoln to Kings Cross starting back at Cleethorpes, unsure of the evening service.
The 1606 could still be possible - as it has a really long layover at Lincoln.

If it leaves Lincoln at 1800 (ish) I could be at Cleethorpes at 1900 (ish) then run ECS back to Lincoln to form the 2027 service. It would also match the original plan.

That said the 1906 is also sensible with a return to the Depot via Doncaster.
 

David Goddard

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The morning trip certainly makes sense, but for the evening run its unlikely to get to Cleethorpes and back within the 2h23 between 1B88 arriving and 1B91 returning to London at 2025, based on existing timings taking around 1h10 each way, plus layover, and the Azuma probably wont be going much faster than a 170 does.
Also, is 1606 a bit early for a return from London? Might not be able to squeeze an 1806 on weekdays else that would be ideal.
 

Failed Unit

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It probably would be enough time to get there and back, the return run will be ECS anyway (although haven't checked for conflicts on the route).

I agree 1606 will probably be too early, and 1906 would be preferred by the users.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the EMR timetable as well. They are not sure if they can stop at Habrough, Barnetby and Market Rasen. But if they can then it could also remove a EMR working from the timetable. Otherwise you will get a lot of departures before 0630 towards Lincoln when demand isn't exactly high. In a perfect world it could remove the 0549 Cleethorpes - Newark from the timetable. (The outward is ECS anyway). However I don't know how good the SDO is on the Azuma's for them to stop at the smaller stations.
 

TheBigD

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What’s the recast ECML timetable going to look like?

On another thread, a link was posted that had a date of May 2026...

 

I__

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A few days before the test the schedules linked in this thread were deleted and new ones were created as Rail Operations Group were driving the train instead of LNER.

Here are two videos from the test on Monday, it was 800207 on the test run.

Cleethorpes to Lincoln - 5Q81 - (800207):


Lincoln to Cleethorpes - 5Q82 - (800207):

 
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