Leeds Station Improvement

[yorksrob]

It's still a hell of alot better than what there was beforehand (the dingy subways for a start!)
Tbh the incremental improvements (opening up the Southern Concourse roof, platform 0, southern entrance etc) have done the best they can but there's alot more that needs doing. I know there's work planned although I doubt what is needed will be fully funded and Leeds will get a bargain basement version!

Yes, I remember the subway and its aromatic toilet

I think the next priority should be extending p17.

 

[Neptune]

Indeed. There are many aspects of the turn of the century refurb that I think still work well - the train shed, transfer deck and refurbished North concourse in particular, but we're getting on for a quarter of a century so some TLC will understandably be due.

It's still a hell of alot better than what there was beforehand (the dingy subways for a start!)
Tbh the incremental improvements (opening up the Southern Concourse roof, platform 0, southern entrance etc) have done the best they can but there's alot more that needs doing. I know there's work planned although I doubt what is needed will be fully funded and Leeds will get a bargain basement version!

It’s definitely far better than the pre 2000 station and the recent upgrades have massively helped.

The taxi stand will be by the new entrance from what I understand.

Future plans include demolishing the admin block to further extend the concourse. This will mean moving Traincrew and station staff to a new location somewhere in the station (probably the Aire Street offices).

Network Rail have desired this for a long time (valuable station real estate) and it almost happened with the refurbishment of City House where not just LNER, XC, Northern and Network Rail local staff would have moved and Alex Hynes wanted to move Northern’s HQ and east side training centre into there too. Sadly Bruntwood wanted silly money to rent space and non of the companies wanted to entertain such a price hike from what they already had and stayed put.

P17 will happen and is in the planning stages.

 

[Meerkat]

My criticism - nowhere to put/hang your bag. I hate having to put my rucksack on the floor of public toilets.

Bigger issue is needing to sit down when you are wearing a big winter coat.

 

[HarryL]

Future plans include demolishing the admin block to further extend the concourse. This will mean moving Traincrew and station staff to a new location somewhere in the station (probably the Aire Street offices).

Isn't most of the space under that building already part of the concourse, the ticket barriers are under it aren't they? Unless you mean they intend to remove the walls/ceiling above the barriers and fully open the space to the train shed?

 

[yorksrob]

Bigger issue is needing to sit down when you are wearing a big winter coat.

Yes, indeed.

 

[Neptune]

Isn't most of the space under that building already part of the concourse, the ticket barriers are under it aren't they? Unless you mean they intend to remove the walls/ceiling above the barriers and fully open the space to the train shed?

It covers the barrier area but the rest of it is office space at ground floor level.

 

[Starmill]

As others have said room for a 150 metre (ish) platform on 17 is probably the only remaining meaningful enhancement to the existing station that's practical within the next few years. If that does go ahead it will certainly be a big difference between the Leeds of the early 2010s and the Leeds of 2026. But presumably the turnout and signal will need to be moved quite a long way to get that right.

One thing which I know has been mentioned on here a thousand times that I wish would improve is the cleaning of platform areas. It's definitely better than it was, but some of the places where dust and litter gather on the floor, tracks and roof and in corners looks unbearable.

 

[Neptune]

As others have said room for a 150 metre (ish) platform on 17 is probably the only remaining meaningful enhancement to the existing station that's practical within the next few years. If that does go ahead it will certainly be a big difference between the Leeds of the early 2010s and the Leeds of 2026. But presumably the turnout and signal will need to be moved quite a long way to get that right.

P17 will happen it’s just a case of when (others may be in a better place to answer this). This is the only practical platform enhancement left to do.

Platform 0 and the associated works that went with it sorted out capacity at that side of the station. The only issue left will be through platform capacity which is always a pinch point and not easily solved and of course east end capacity. These are the two main issues that people don’t seem to grasp when it comes to these ridiculous ideas of terminating XC at Leeds and shunting out to the east end.

One thing which I know has been mentioned on here a thousand times that I wish would improve is the cleaning of platform areas. It's definitely better than it was, but some of the places where dust and litter gather on the floor, tracks and roof and in corners looks unbearable.

Yes it does look grubby and whenever I cross the bridge you can see how filthy the roof area is. The east end bridge is so dingy. Such a shame they didn’t at least put glass panels in it to brighten it up.

 

[yorksrob]

P17 will happen it’s just a case of when (others may be in a better place to answer this). This is the only practical platform enhancement left to do.

Platform 0 and the associated works that went with it sorted out capacity at that side of the station. The only issue left will be through platform capacity which is always a pinch point and not easily solved and of course east end capacity. These are the two main issues that people don’t seem to grasp when it comes to these ridiculous ideas of terminating XC at Leeds and shunting out to the east end.

Yes it does look grubby and whenever I cross the bridge you can see how filthy the roof area is. The east end bridge is so dingy. Such a shame they didn’t at least put glass panels in it to brighten it up.

I liked the East end bridge until someone frosted the glass on it so that you couldn't overlook the station (apparently a safety initiative, although the transport deck at the west seems to manage without this "initiative").

 

[modernrail]

I still think is a massive shame they have never found a way to integrate the dark arches into the station, for taxi/drop off and for an expanded concourse. Something St Pancras style would be great.

The Southern entrance could have been so much less convoluted as well.

 

[xotGD]

I noticed the other day that the KFC is shut, with hoardings around it. A refurb to return as KFC or a new offering, does anyone know?

 

[skyhigh]

I noticed the other day that the KFC is shut, with hoardings around it. A refurb to return as KFC or a new offering, does anyone know?

Being replaced with a place called Tortilla.

 

[johntea]

Seems like a bit of a ‘niche’ choice of food for the passing train passenger trade, especially next to McDonalds

 

[Iskra]

Being replaced with a place called Tortilla.

Disappointing news.

Seems like a bit of a ‘niche’ choice of food for the passing train passenger trade, especially next to McDonalds

I give it 12 months

 

[61653 HTAFC]

P17 will happen it’s just a case of when (others may be in a better place to answer this). This is the only practical platform enhancement left to do.

Platform 0 and the associated works that went with it sorted out capacity at that side of the station. The only issue left will be through platform capacity which is always a pinch point and not easily solved and of course east end capacity. These are the two main issues that people don’t seem to grasp when it comes to these ridiculous ideas of terminating XC at Leeds and shunting out to the east end.

The idea of knocking through to turn platforms 13 & 14 into a single through platform seems to resurface every few years. I'm not really sure what this achieves from a capacity point of view, as currently 13 sees far more use than 14, all with services that terminate from the west. It would allow longer trains but the six through platforms that exist are more than enough for the amount of services that can run through- in part due to the long two track section through towards York and Selby. It would also cause crowding on the platforms, and remove the café, toilets and waiting area that currently occupies the space between platforms 12 & 15, and the two bays.

 

[skyhigh]

Disappointing news.



I give it 12 months

I think, though I might be mistaken, that SSP has ended its relationship with KFC. Certainly that outlet had very poor standards and was probably the worst KFC in Yorkshire - I don't think it will be missed.

Tortilla as a brand seems fairly successful with roughly 80 outlets across the UK. Looking at their menu they seem to do a decent range of wraps/salads etc.

 

[D6130]

I think, though I might be mistaken, that SSP has ended its relationship with KFC. Certainly that outlet had very poor standards and was probably the worst KFC in Yorkshire - I don't think it will be missed.

Tortilla as a brand seems fairly successful with roughly 80 outlets across the UK. Looking at their menu they seem to do a decent range of wraps/salads etc.

....and there was me thinking that a tortilla was a Spanish omelette!

 

[Iskra]

I think, though I might be mistaken, that SSP has ended its relationship with KFC. Certainly that outlet had very poor standards and was probably the worst KFC in Yorkshire - I don't think it will be missed.

Tortilla as a brand seems fairly successful with roughly 80 outlets across the UK. Looking at their menu they seem to do a decent range of wraps/salads etc.

I agree it wasn't the best. I once visited and it had run out of chicken (outside of the national KFC chicken issue). However, it still did a steady trade. I've never heard of Tortilla, but a quick look at their menu online and it does look alright actually, it seems to be along the lines of Leon in terms of the trend towards fresher food. I'm not sure how many rail passengers are going to want spicy food before or on a journey, and there is a vague etiquette about not inflicting spicy food on fellow travellers, but in that location it doesn't purely have to appeal to rail travellers. I'm not that convinced, but we shall see.

P17 will happen it’s just a case of when (others may be in a better place to answer this). This is the only practical platform enhancement left to do.

Platform 0 and the associated works that went with it sorted out capacity at that side of the station. The only issue left will be through platform capacity which is always a pinch point and not easily solved and of course east end capacity. These are the two main issues that people don’t seem to grasp when it comes to these ridiculous ideas of terminating XC at Leeds and shunting out to the east end.

Yes it does look grubby and whenever I cross the bridge you can see how filthy the roof area is. The east end bridge is so dingy. Such a shame they didn’t at least put glass panels in it to brighten it up.

P17 lengthening is excellent news, it should be transformative for the Hallam Line and beyond.

 

[leedslad82]

With the work out front at the moment and the exposed old arches for the goit it would be amazing if they could be incorporated into the design

 

[GoneSouth]

I think, though I might be mistaken, that SSP has ended its relationship with KFC. Certainly that outlet had very poor standards and was probably the worst KFC in Yorkshire - I don't think it will be missed.

Tortilla as a brand seems fairly successful with roughly 80 outlets across the UK. Looking at their menu they seem to do a decent range of wraps/salads etc.

Hugely more appealing than KFC then

 

[IanXC]

Demolishing the Admin block seems like it would be extremely disruptive - how do you do that above the main entrance to the station? Surely it would be easier to deliver, and easier in the long term (not increasing traincrew walking times etc) to clear more of the ground floor offices to new locations rather than worry about what is above that?

Of course the next new platform capacity for Leeds is already underway.... in Bradford. Forster Square's fourth platform is supposed to allow additional LNER services to Bradford, perhaps 1tp2h, which in combination with the 1tp2h to Harrogate means only 1tph will terminate at Leeds, which can be accomodated in platform 6, freeing platform 8 to act as a through platform, which it currently can't for a significant period of the day.

The question of platform 14 I think comes down to what services look like after TRU. Will it be a Leeds - York EMU stopper, if its operated with a 4 car only having platform 7 is a bit restrictive. If its a through service to somewhere else then that is less of an issue, and also frees up bay platform capacity at the west end. How that fits with the need to provide further length for Hallam line services who knows!

 

[xotGD]

Being replaced with a place called Tortilla.

Thanks.

The availability of breakfast burritos sounds appealing!

 

[duffield]

I agree it wasn't the best. I once visited and it had run out of chicken (outside of the national KFC chicken issue). However, it still did a steady trade. I've never heard of Tortilla, but a quick look at their menu online and it does look alright actually, it seems to be along the lines of Leon in terms of the trend towards fresher food. I'm not sure how many rail passengers are going to want spicy food before or on a journey, and there is a vague etiquette about not inflicting spicy food on fellow travellers, but in that location it doesn't purely have to appeal to rail travellers. I'm not that convinced, but we shall see.


P17 lengthening is excellent news, it should be transformative for the Hallam Line and beyond.

P17 lengthening would be great if it led to the busier Nottingham/Leeds services being strengthened to four coaches. I'd certainly use the service more. Although cynically, I suspect that even if/when the platform work is done, it will turn out that there won't be any units available to do this.

 

[YorkshireBear]

P17 lengthening would be great if it led to the busier Nottingham/Leeds services being strengthened to four coaches. I'd certainly use the service more. Although cynically, I suspect that even if/when the platform work is done, it will turn out that there won't be any units available to do this.

I believe, although I may have got the wrong end of the stick, that this lengthening includes it's own line to connect into the hallam lines, avoiding having to wait for TPE services to access the station or leave. That in itself could be a game changer for the reliability and arguably shave a few minutes off journey times.

 

[Iskra]

I believe, although I may have got the wrong end of the stick, that this lengthening includes it's own line to connect into the hallam lines, avoiding having to wait for TPE services to access the station or leave. That in itself could be a game changer for the reliability and arguably shave a few minutes off journey times.

That's even better to hear. It's normal to sit outside Leeds station for a few minutes waiting, so every little helps, especially for the Hallam stopper who's journey time is longer than it needs to be anyway. Is there any possibility that this will unlock a separate service for Castleford, so the Hallam Line stopper can just do the Hallam Line?

 

[YorkshireBear]

That's even better to hear. It's normal to sit outside Leeds station for a few minutes waiting, so every little helps, especially for the Hallam stopper who's journey time is longer than it needs to be anyway. Is there any possibility that this will unlock a separate service for Castleford, so the Hallam Line stopper can just do the Hallam Line?

Well and truly into speculative there, I think they hope to just improve the existing.

 

[Iskra]

Well and truly into speculative there, I think they hope to just improve the existing.

Can you comment on whether there are any spare units to strengthen the semi-fasts at least? I suppose it's progress if we get faster, more resilient journeys, but if no extra capacity is provided it's a lot of effort for not much output. And it's still not going to be great if after all this, you can't fit on the Hallam Stopper because it's full of Castleford commuters...

 

[yorksrob]

I believe, although I may have got the wrong end of the stick, that this lengthening includes it's own line to connect into the hallam lines, avoiding having to wait for TPE services to access the station or leave. That in itself could be a game changer for the reliability and arguably shave a few minutes off journey times.

I'd have thought that would involve widening the viaduct, so I'm sceptical.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Can you comment on whether there are any spare units to strengthen the semi-fasts at least? I suppose it's progress if we get faster, more resilient journeys, but if no extra capacity is provided it's a lot of effort for not much output. And it's still not going to be great if after all this, you can't fit on the Hallam Stopper because it's full of Castleford commuters...

I have no idea about units, not my area of expertise.

I'd have thought that would involve widening the viaduct, so I'm sceptical.

I'll try find out, my impression is it is a big benefit to TRU so widening a viaduct may not be out of the question!

 

[YorksLad12]

I believe there is supposed to be some marshalling employed but they aren't there full time.

Pick up and drop off at Leeds will always be an issue because of the location, particularly with the car park area being the only space for extra platforms going forward. Even with forthcoming work over the next few years at Leeds station (both trackside and the concourses etc) pick up and drop/integration with onward travel is not easily solved - the location is absurdly constrained and the area around the station and approaches have been heavily developed.

The taxi stand will be by the new entrance from what I understand.

I know. And I know I'm being Captain Grumpy. Yesterday's shenanigans included taxi drivers getting out of their cabs to tell civilians where they should go to; a pair of civilians almost opposite each other out of the multi-storey; and thus the whole road was blocked as no-one could enter the pick-up/drop-off area from either direction, or enter/exit any of the surface car parks. Cue lots of horn-leaning.

If the taxis weren't there it would still be a mess though! If we ever did get the T-station built, pick-up and drop-off could move to where the Hilton is now (it and the office block were supposed to be going). But that's 20 years away, I might have retired to one of the houses CEG were supposed to be building at Kirkstall Forge by then

Future plans include demolishing the admin block to further extend the concourse. This will mean moving Traincrew and station staff to a new location somewhere in the station (probably the Aire Street offices).

Interesting. I know Network Rail had half of the 7th floor in 2019 and were looking to take the other half as well.

P17 will happen it’s just a case of when (others may be in a better place to answer this). This is the only practical platform enhancement left to do.

I'd have thought that would involve widening the viaduct, so I'm sceptical.

And even there there's not much that can be done, cheaply. Move the signal and extend by, what, 30 metres, so that a 3-car and 2-car unit can fit? Plus a narrowing platform, unless the track is moved as well. I honestly can't see a new viaduct being built to create a route 'G', for access to one platform.

The idea of knocking through to turn platforms 13 & 14 into a single through platform seems to resurface every few years. I'm not really sure what this achieves from a capacity point of view, as currently 13 sees far more use than 14, all with services that terminate from the west. It would allow longer trains but the six through platforms that exist are more than enough for the amount of services that can run through- in part due to the long two track section through towards York and Selby. It would also cause crowding on the platforms, and remove the café, toilets and waiting area that currently occupies the space between platforms 12 & 15, and the two bays.

I was in favour when it was suggested as part of the Yorkshire Rail Network study, 10 years ago. But yes, it would leave P15 isolated. There was a suggestion to remove P14, as P15 is quite narrow at the ends (an issue with P17, especially if you're going against the flow around the lift).

Right now I'd settle for the escalators working; the one off P15 and the down escalator were both out of action on Friday. Or the side gate on P8 being opened, so we can bypass the sheeple waiting for the London train to pull in at the top of the hour