Sam 76
Member
Ahh ok. Makes sense, hopefully this gets better as the week goes on
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Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)
- Thread starter Liverpool 507
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I had a meeting in Liverpool tonight and with the info from this thread in hand went to have a ride on 508104. Caught at 22:06 from Birkenhead Park & went round the loop to James Street. Images show the unit on arrival at Birkenhead and then at James Street after going round the loop. Daft question but does the unit have a different livery on each side?
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Razorblades
Member
In short, yes. That was the standard Scouse-PEP colour scheme.
MR-507508
Member
Presumably due to 508108 & 508114 not leaving the network on Monday and the unit shortage of the 507/08 fleet at present?
The thing is the 507/8s have been a bit neglected for years - I certainly noticed commuting on them in 2020 that they'd started to get the "don't spend money on them as they're going soon" treatment, I was expecting them to be woefully unreliable by now but they just keep going. Some of them have done 46 years of service and if one breaks down its sort of expected. The 777s were rushed into service fully knowing they weren't ready (according to a friend of mine at Stadler) due to pressures by Mr Mayor so he could have his 5 minutes of fame, a photo in the paper, then vanish when things go wrong. Teething issues are of course expected with any new fleet but they have been suffering consistent faults since day 1, and rather than halt the rollout for a bit and get things sorted they've thrown them out everywhere and as a result decimated the network reliability - arguably what makes it so successful in the first place. The Kirkby line being a fine example, they used to have a clockwork 15min frequency which was very reliable. They've had frequencies slashed for the best part of a year, many turning to the car or bus, then when the train does run it breaks down..
I work out of Chester station, I am (was) a regular user of Merseyrail and have been for the past near 30 years - these past few months since 777 introduction have been dreadful. I've never seen so many services cancelled on the line in my life. As a result it is too unreliable for me to use as a commute anymore, so I'm now commuting by car. I sincerely hope things improve, but things should have been done very differently.
Absolutely bonkers with the current 50X shortage and chronic unreliability of 777s (even a number of 777 services on Wirral cancelled last week due to shortage of 777 trained staff), that they withdrew any of the last few 508s at all (508103, 108, 114, 120, 131, 136, 141) as all of those units were not long overhauled and had years worth of miles left - there are 507s running around much closer to overhaul time and in worse nick than some of those 508s too.
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CallmeDave
Member
508104 xx08 New Brighton departures. Then xx23 from 1923 to 2323. Stables New Brighton.
scottie
Member
Any one know what 507001 is allocated to today please?
Just setting off on 2U20 1027 Southport- Hunts Cross.
scottie
Member
Thank you. Much appreciated.
CallmeDave
Member
507001 09 01 23 departures
Southport. 1027 1257 1527 1757 2027 2257
Hunts X 1136 1406 1636 1906 2136
Ends Kirkdale.
There are several pairs out between the peaks as expected today whilst platform 1 at Southport is closed.
507001 with 507032 on the aforementioned 10.27 is one, with 507015 + 023 on the 09.57 from Southport and 507017 + 018 on the 10.36 from Hunts Cross. A fourth pair are on the 10.12 from Southport, as yet unidentified.
507001 with 507032 on the aforementioned 10.27 is one, with 507015 + 023 on the 09.57 from Southport and 507017 + 018 on the 10.36 from Hunts Cross. A fourth pair are on the 10.12 from Southport, as yet unidentified.
CallmeDave
Member
Thanks for that prod_pep. A big help. Think I will take a trip out on Southports today without the feeling that I may be a Sardine. A bit of space. Thanks again.
Unfortunately, they're being split down now, 507017 alone on the 11.57 from Southport. None of the booked AM pairs correspond with the PM workings so splitting is inevitable.
Edit: one of the pairs is staying out, 507001 + 032 with the 12.57 Southport - Hunts X. Quite rightly too as this follows a missing diagram, so this off-peak capacity problem has been addressed.
004 + 033 were the unidentified pair but these have retired to the sidings.
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I'm on 507032 at the moment and it's on the Southport line, running with 001. I think 030 is the unit on the Ellesmere Port line going by earlier gen.
Travelled on merseyrail for years and never noticed it. Thanks for the confirmation
CallmeDave
Member
Ah, thanks for that. All good things and all that. May grab a jaunt on 001 and chum later. 104s compressor is sounding sweet in 64652 for anyone so inclined.
No problem, glad to help.
507030 is the Ellesmere Port line set (1512 departure).
A replacement 777 has been sourced from Southport for the West Kirby line following multiple faults.
507004 was also called to arms yesterday on the West Kirby line to cover an errant 777.
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CallmeDave
Member
Thanks very much again . We will see if tomorrow is the last day of 104. It's seems odd in times of chronic shortage to be scrapping stuff.
Not just on here. After sitting in the tunnel outside Birkenhead for 15 minutes, following two consecutive 777 failures, most of the front coach of the now full and standing 508 were moaning about the unreliability of the new trains.
EDIT: According to Modern Railways, miles per failure for 777 is 504, miles per failure for 507/508 is 5843. The 777s are worse than 230s and 769s.
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It appears that 508104 will be in service for "another week". There is some serious issues with the fleet availability and lack of crews that are 777 competent.
A really poorly managed roll out.
Mordac
Established Member
It's not like they had years with the trains sitting around in sidings to plan it.
The three PEP's were never in that livery. You must be dreaming!
Yes one side is Yellow based, the other side is Silver based. So as you appreciate, as a Unit goes around the 'loop' the livery in effect swap sides all day long. Clearly on the 'Northern' lines you would never notice. Personally when photographing a Class 507 / 508 unit, I always hope for the Yellow side to record.
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An incredible pair of statistics. One claim elsewhere is that each 777 has almost a 50% chance of failure per diagram.
It's very amusing to be called 'biased' in the face of figures like those.
If each diagram is 300 miles then yes, roughly half will have a fault every day. I've only ever had one 508 fail and that was 25 years ago at Tonbridge. Even that got going after 20 minutes and made up several minutes on the way to Redhill.
TheSel
Member
Seemingly 508104 has been 'tagged' (i.e. targeted by the graffiti brigade) overnight at New Brighton.
In happier news, if anyone's looking for 507001, it's presently working the 0927 Southport to Hunts Cross in 6 car formation with 507016 (with 001 at the Hunts Cross end). Barring the unexpected, this pair will then work the return working as 1036 HNX-SOP.
In happier news, if anyone's looking for 507001, it's presently working the 0927 Southport to Hunts Cross in 6 car formation with 507016 (with 001 at the Hunts Cross end). Barring the unexpected, this pair will then work the return working as 1036 HNX-SOP.
Couldn't agree more. It's crystal clear the 50x fleet is still significantly more reliable, but some people would rather scrap them so Rotheram can have his photograph taken and Merseyrail customers can have WiFi (which doesn't work) and phone chargers (are they even needed?) at the expense of a good quality service with adequate capacity. When you look at those MTIN figures, the continued scrapping of perfectly serviceable 508s with years of mileage left has done nothing but add insult to injury for Merseyrail customers, who actually have had to endure a woefully poor service on sub-standard trains ever since the 777s entered traffic.
Class91Joe
Member
If they have any sense they really need to hold off on beginning 507 withdrawals again after 508104 has been stood down. It would definitely seem a logical move with the terrible performance of the 777s at the moment. They are only digging themselves into an even bigger hole and it looks like it's going to continue that way unfortunately.
Liverpool 507
Member
Only three 50X units are booked on to Kirkdale per day now. Spare units of late have been left in the sidings at Southport and dispatched over to the Wirral or wherever else needed once a breakdown occurs.
507030 is on the Ellesmere Port line today, with 508104 on New Brighton services and 507001 out on Southport services.