This line has already lost Miles Platting, Newton Heath and Middleton Junction stations between Manchester and Rochdale as a result of the "rationalisation" of the period in the 1960's and in events since then.
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Miles Platting lost most of its remaining traffic after local housing on & near Oldham Rd. was demolished, and local industry declined. Whilst I was sad to see it closed, high frequency bus services to the city centre cater adequately for what residual traffic still exists.
Middleton suffered from neglect - a sparse service and several minutes walk from the town centre meant that the rail service found it difficult to compete with slower, but very frequent buses to Manchester, and direct buses to both Oldham & Rochdale.
Is the crossover planned to be between the viaduct and the station then, or Manchester side of the station? Sorry, not sure from the thread so far - I'd guessed from comments so far that it was definitely going on the viaduct (as unlikely as that sounded!)
I would be interested if someone could tell this forum when Network Rail or their predecessors last made a structural assessment with regard to the present stage of degradations that has occurred. I think that the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway were involved in the construction of the viaduct.
Does anyone know if any thought has been given to rolling stock for services using the Todmorden curve? The talk seems to be of a completion date for the line at the end of next year, but that's not going to help much unless there's some trains to run the new service, and since I gather from other threads that Northern has no spare stock, something presumably needs to be done...?
Middleton station, which I used until its demise in 1964, would now be more useful, noting the new town centre developments that are very near to the former station site, which was used by an office block and associated warehouse the last time that I had cause to visit Middleton about 10 years ago, but past acquaintances do still contact me with information from time to time. I should imagine that a bus ride from Middleton into Manchester, either via Rochdale Road or via Cheetham Hill, would still take quite some time, especially in the peak travel periods.
It might be better used as part of a tramway extended to the town centre, and maybe even to the Langley estate beyond the town centre. With a new bridge over the line at Middleton Junction, it would even be feasible to extend a tramway up Middleton incline to join Metrolink at Oldham Werneth. (Of course, I don't expect this to happen...)
Whatever direction you go from Middleton to the Langley estate, you will be faced with a very steep incline over a considerable period of line running.
Not exactly "rack and pinion" in its requirements, but something to stretch one's imagination trying to come up with a solution to that particular conundrum.
I have consulted all my historical maps of that area of Manchester and at present, the only way to make a Manchester Piccadilly (from your stated use of platform 1) - Ardwick -Miles Platting journey, is to carry on past Ardwick towards Ashburys on the lines at the rear of station, then to reverse to access the line which passes through both the Phillips Park junctions into Miles Platting.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to state the route that you had in mind to enable your service to run in the section from Ardwick to Miles Platting, noting that the Siemens Transpennine Express now occupies much of the former land in that area and is projected to be converted to allow the future electric units to be serviced.
When you make a journey from Manchester Piccadilly to Ardwick at the present time, just before you arrive at Ardwick Station, you will see on the left hand side of the line, the viaduct that in the dim and distant realms of railway history used to provide a through-running route to the area near to Miles Platting. However, the bridge over Blind Lane and Pittbrook Street was removed many years ago and the viaduct remainder has the appearance of a gently curving elevated urban forest. I would be interested if someone could tell this forum when Network Rail or their predecessors last made a structural assessment with regard to the present stage of degradations that has occurred. I think that the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway were involved in the construction of the viaduct.
Middleton to Langley is no steeper than parts of the Sheffield tramway.
I have been following this discussion with great interest. The link from Philips Park Junction to Ardwick was opened by the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway as a single track goods line on 20th November 1848, it was opened to regular passenger traffic in 1852. The line was doubled in August 1865. Sadly I don't know when the Ardwick end of line was closed to both Passenger & Goods traffic. Although I do know that by 1970 the closed section was no longer in any use.
Col Cobb gives 1964 as the closure date.
Thanks for that information, it was helpful. It also means that the viaduct has been out of use for 48 years, I very much doubt it could be used without great cost in making it usable, or even demolished and a new one built.
It would be very nice to have, but if additional platforms are provided at Victoria on the Exchange side it's the wrong place to be pushing services through to, Rochdale and Stalybridge are on the better side to avoid crossing moves.
(New bays: Terminating all services off the Chat Moss except TPE services running through
3 and 4 TPE Through Services and Ordsall Cord Services
5 and 6 Everything from Windsor Bridge, running through to Rochdale or Stalybridge)
Do I read it correctly that the Clitheroe service would be scheduled for 5 and 6 (above) and extended to either Rochdale or to Stalybridge ? Would there be enough bay platform provision either at Rochdale or Stalybridge to carry the through traffic to both these two destinations that you so describe in platforms 5 and 6.
What is the current number of Network Rail projected west-facing bay platforms at either Rochdale or at Stalybridge, in the most recently published Network Rail documentation ?
What is the current number of Network Rail projected west-facing bay platforms at ... Rochdale ... ?
The thing im confused about is their extending the service to Blackburn but their still pushing electrification as far as Rochdale, how many services would be left solely under the wires?
Perhaps their thinking of introducing an extra hourly/half hourly service to some Greater Manchester location, ive never seen a proposed route only that electrifying to Rochdale will be in the next years lobbying strategy.
Perhaps their thinking of introducing an extra hourly/half hourly service to some Greater Manchester location, ive never seen a proposed route only that electrifying to Rochdale will be in the next years lobbying strategy.
Don't forget that Rochdale has an unused island platform complete with two south-facing bays that could be brought back into use.
Don't forget that Rochdale has an unused island platform complete with two south-facing bays that could be brought back into use.
Are you referring to the former platforms on the Mill Street side of the station where parts of these are still visible ?