Llanigraham
On Moderation
The reason is that the Treasury is not convinced that the Welsh Government can manage it's own finances and will incur excessive costs for Welsh Tax payers.
Evidence of that statement, or conjecture?
The reason is that the Treasury is not convinced that the Welsh Government can manage it's own finances and will incur excessive costs for Welsh Tax payers.
Evidence of that statement, or conjecture?
The reason is that the Treasury is not convinced that the Welsh Government can manage it's own finances and will incur excessive costs for Welsh Tax payers.
Yes; previous statements in the public domain.
Officially at least the process is that there are 4 bidders and competitive tendering will determine the winner who will build the South Wales Metro based on the best bid/best value bid following the criteria laid out - which of course is all very secret squirrel stuff. So are you saying that the Welsh Government has specified Light Rail whilst keeping it all secret from the pubic?
Where do you get that idea from?
part of the proposals are to wire the whole Valleys network, not close it.
And I think light rail has been ruled out due to future possible freight use.
I think it's come from the constant insinuations in one of the rail magazines - I think it was Today's Railways - that they'd already made up their mind unofficially that they'd prefer it to be light rail. But the very fact that the idea has been planted was a suggestion. It's like a comment someone else made in the first class thread about Grayling leaking policies out slowly so that people won't be as disappointed when it's officially confirmed
Converting to light rail would be seen as a downgrade. It would be a closing of the lines as far as the National Rail network is concerned, in the same way Oldham Loop was. And I don't know if it has been ruled out - it was definitely in the consultation and I've not heard anything from that
They can have a guided busway from Cardiff Bay to Cardiff Central if they want, as long as we get some straight-EMUs (Electrostars or similar) and enough wires for them to run Maesteg - Cardiff - Ebbw Vale, Ebbw Vale - Newport, Merthyr/Treherbert/Rhymney - Cardiff - Barry - Bridgend and Merthyr/Treherbert/Rhymney - Barry Island by about 2025 plus Swansea Docks - GlynNeath - Aberdare - Radyr - Fairwater - Cardiff and Swansea-Cardiff-Bristol a year or two later.Given the curretn trend for Government Ministers to lose the plot completely on Transport policy don't be surprised if a guided busway is the new hot favorite down at the Bay........
...scanners in the works...
Rumour doing the rounds is were down to two bidders left (Abeilio and Arriva) and Welsh Government has a preferred bidder already however DFT under orders from Grayling are putting scanners in the works as Garyling is now not happy at the assumed transfer of powers to Cardiff Bay.
Also MTR was dismissed due to "irregularities in their bid" which included ATO on the Cambrian Coast!
I just get the feeling that it's going to go to Abeilio. If they do win, there's going to be a lot of stations and trains to repaint...
Forgive my ignorance, what is ATO?
Rumour doing the rounds is were down to two bidders left (Abeilio and Arriva) and Welsh Government has a preferred bidder already however DFT under orders from Grayling are putting scanners in the works as Garyling is now not happy at the assumed transfer of powers to Cardiff Bay.
Also MTR was dismissed due to "irregularities in their bid" which included ATO on the Cambrian Coast!
Neither Abellio nor Arriva have any construction interests, so if it is either of them they must have a construction partner for the Metro.
That was why I thought the bid involving Amey (with Keolis) had legs.
MTR is also a property company and knows about major infrastructure projects.
I know devolution excites passions, but I expect Grayling is facing opposition from several quarters about the transfer of Valley lines to WG control, and on the franchise generally.
It's also not true that rail devolution is a done deal politically, or it would have happened already.
How do people think a 15-year deal is going to be done without a large amount of UK funding committed by the Treasury, with a significant risk attached?
There are also English counties involved, whose MPs won't want to give Cardiff a free hand with the franchise in their areas.
Neither Abellio nor Arriva have any construction interests, so if it is either of them they must have a construction partner for the Metro.
That was why I thought the bid involving Amey (with Keolis) had legs.
MTR is also a property company and knows about major infrastructure projects.
I know devolution excites passions, but I expect Grayling is facing opposition from several quarters about the transfer of Valley lines to WG control, and on the franchise generally.
It's also not true that rail devolution is a done deal politically, or it would have happened already.
How do people think a 15-year deal is going to be done without a large amount of UK funding committed by the Treasury, with a significant risk attached?
There are also English counties involved, whose MPs won't want to give Cardiff a free hand with the franchise in their areas.
The Wales/England border is a natural headache for the railway. Is the DfT still considering removing station management from the W&B and transferring it to non-serving franchises (XC-style)? Seems a silly idea in the face of this DfT/WG spat. Could we end up with something like this rather crude map I have knocked up?
Well, it's anything but a crude map, but I don't see why so many stations should be given to LM when they have no operations there, NR maybe. If it is an attempt to leave anything in England to an "English" TOC, please remember that the TOC name "Wales and Borders" is intended to mean "Wales and adjacent England", and includes some operations which are not so adjacent like Manchester.
Personally, I wouldn't move any stations unless a given route changes TOC.
And the premise that W&B is a head-ache is also wrong, even more if there is an alignment between TOC and NR routes.
The Wales/England border is a natural headache for the railway. Is the DfT still considering removing station management from the W&B and transferring it to non-serving franchises (XC-style)? Seems a silly idea in the face of this DfT/WG spat. Could we end up with something like this rather crude map I have knocked up?
LNW-GW Joint said:Again, if English stations are included in this it raises the issue of governance from Cardiff Bay
I don't wish any stations to move.Well, it's anything but a crude map, but I don't see why so many stations should be given to LM when they have no operations there, NR maybe. If it is an attempt to leave anything in England to an "English" TOC, please remember that the TOC name "Wales and Borders" is intended to mean "Wales and adjacent England", and includes some operations which are not so adjacent like Manchester.
Personally, I wouldn't move any stations unless a given route changes TOC.
And the premise that W&B is a head-ache is also wrong, even more if there is an alignment between TOC and NR routes.
Neither Abellio nor Arriva have any construction interests, so if it is either of them they must have a construction partner for the Metro.
That was why I thought the bid involving Amey (with Keolis) had legs.
MTR is also a property company and knows about major infrastructure projects.
I know devolution excites passions, but I expect Grayling is facing opposition from several quarters about the transfer of Valley lines to WG control, and on the franchise generally.
It's also not true that rail devolution is a done deal politically, or it would have happened already.
How do people think a 15-year deal is going to be done without a large amount of UK funding committed by the Treasury, with a significant risk attached?
There are also English counties involved, whose MPs won't want to give Cardiff a free hand with the franchise in their areas.
I didn't think they had issued the Invitation To Tender yet; rather premature to be discounting bidders before they have had a chance to submit their tenders isn't it? But, if by some crazy thing (and ATO on the Cambrian coast certainly fits the bill, whyever could that be?), we are down to a two-way battle between Arriva and Abeilio that could be good news given your earlier suggestion that it was MTR who wanted to split off the ValleyLines network and turn it into a segregated light-rail operation.Rumour doing the rounds is were down to two bidders left (Abeilio and Arriva) and Welsh Government has a preferred bidder already however DFT under orders from Grayling are putting scanners in the works as Garyling is now not happy at the assumed transfer of powers to Cardiff Bay.
Also MTR was dismissed due to "irregularities in their bid" which included ATO on the Cambrian Coast!
I thought Cardiff Central was going to be a seperately funded Network Rail project anyway, regardless of who the station operator is. As for what is needed, I think the current station is actually rather good; toilets aside one of the best in Wales. Yes it could do with more queuing space to handle rugby matches and possibly a new footbridge (or two) at the end(s) of the platforms but nothing that justifies the wholesale demolition of the most complete GWR major city station of its era the artist's impressions have suggested.Unless the Operator and Development Partner (ODP) of the new franchise includes plans and the necessary funding to redevelop Cardiff Central in their bid, it needs to be taken over by Network Rail. A do nothing approach with the station is not an option, it's not fit for the future.
I didn't think they had issued the Invitation To Tender yet; rather premature to be discounting bidders before they have had a chance to submit their tenders isn't it? But, if by some crazy thing (and ATO on the Cambrian coast certainly fits the bill, whyever could that be?), we are down to a two-way battle between Arriva and Abeilio that could be good news given your earlier suggestion that it was MTR who wanted to split off the ValleyLines network and turn it into a segregated light-rail operation.
I thought Cardiff Central was going to be a seperately funded Network Rail project anyway, regardless of who the station operator is. As for what is needed, I think the current station is actually rather good; toilets aside one of the best in Wales. Yes it could do with more queuing space to handle rugby matches and possibly a new footbridge (or two) at the end(s) of the platforms but nothing that justifies the wholesale demolition of the most complete GWR major city station of its era the artist's impressions have suggested.
Hence my suggestion of a new footbridge (or two) at the end(s) of the platforms, to take pressure off the subway.If passenger numbers are to increase at Cardiff Central as expected, funnelling passengers from trains into the subway below, as well as passengers at the same time being funnelled into the subway to get up onto the trains, is surely an accident waiting to happen.
Crowd control and queing to enter the station wouldn't be accepted by the public outside of stadium events.
My prefered option would be to widen the subway that the lifts (NOT the stairs) lead into and add some stairs to and from that subway allowing the current main subway (with the classic tiles) to be used for interchange and passengers leaving the station only (by setting the ticket barriers to one-way). I'm not sure whether there is empty space under the tracks in order to do that though, or if the subways are running through an otherwise solid embankment.
Which is why my earlier post (#1013) only mentioned the footbridge(s) option, because I'm not sure how the place is structured down at subway level. If it is just a big empty space with walls to keep passengers in a certain area it might not be all that difficult, but if the other side of the subway wall is solid rubble widening the subway is impossible and it'll have to be the platform-end footbridge option to avoid unacceptable destruction.I'm no engineer but widening a tunnel seems like an incredibly difficult project.
I have checked out whoever said we were down to two bidders and it's not true.
Nothing about a disqualification either. It's business as usual.