First 'Cancelled' Western

[Sprog]

What is the source of these revelations regards the bustitution of the Devon and Cornwall branches.

An internal, unofficial source.

Beleive whwat you like,but the DfT are hardly gonna release this to the press are they!?

Thats the whole point of this saga: FGW get the blame, the bad publicity and the fines while the DfT get off scott free and save aload of money etc,

 

[Max]

An internal, unofficial source.

Beleive whwat you like,but the DfT are hardly gonna release this to the press are they!?

Thats the whole point of this saga: FGW get the blame, the bad publicity and the fines while the DfT get off scott free and save aload of money etc,

But the Dft are not entirely to blame either...

 

[Mojo]

Have a look at this for some of the things they want to/are going to/were planning to do

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_foi/documents/page/dft_foi_612538.pdf

Why there's no Bristol - Oxford service, cutting the Severn Beach Line at Clifton Down, etc.

To review the
affordability and service
provision strategy for the
branch lines west of
Bristol, taking account of
seasonality issues
To identify and review
very lightly used station
calls on both the branch
lines and the main line

 

[devon_metro]

I could put you all to sleep with an endless list of First Cock Ups this week but I wont. They've been in the local news again tonight, well over 5 minutes worth with moaning passengers (rightly so) about the companies totally shambolic preformance over the last few weeks. FGW have to be bottom of the country now in the 'Top TOC' list. Daily statistics show an alarming amount of cancellations through fleet/crew, not the DfT.

The lastest *rumor* is to help the bad Bristol area press theyve been getting some more units will appear next week. Where from?? Yes, Cornwall. Cornish branches will be bustituted next week in order to stop those annoying pain in the backside commuters from Bristol moaning. Maybe FGW should step back and actually think about where there income comes from? Yes, passengers who are putting up with a daily pantomine.....

Anyway if there is anyone out there stupid enough to support First Group sort your head out and then join my 'strip First of the Great Western franchise' campaign, before its too late and the DfT tarmac the lot because theres no one left travelling by rail...

Back to normal in ten days....

Yeah right

Thing about Cornwall is it is juat as easy to take the car on the branches. And train is just seen as more convenient. If customers loose faith. Goodbye branch lines!

 

[Dennis]

That's outrageous really, the local taxpayers are contributing their hard earned cash so that First Group can run a train service. It is obviously to the benefit of a larger number of other First customers but must surely represent a breach of the franchise agreement.

Given that buses are also widely assumed to be cheaper to run than trains, presumably First are going to make cash savings by bustitution on these lines; are they going to simply pocket the difference?

Also, a ten day closure must be an ideal opportunity to carry out engineering work on these lines, or have they already undergone a period of closure for this.

The users of these lines must really feel shat upon and I'm sure their grievances with local public services don't end with the railways.

 

[Andrew]

Local taxpayers aren't contributing anything, are they? So it's no suprise they get nothing. FGW is not a public service - it pays, or is meant to pay, a premium for running the service.

I was under the impression FGW got no subsidy from the government. Or do local councils give FGW money too?

 

[Tom]

It's gradual IIRC, the positive subsidy drops into a negative subsidy. Well, it is for South Western!

 

[Z12XE]

I find it amazing that 4x153 units are stored at Eastleigh (soon to move to Norwich - initally for storage, not immediate use by One) and at least another 2 in Cardiff.

Why can't someone in the DfT just admit there are problems and borrow these units, even if its just short term whilst everything settles down.
I think 153s are crap, but having 6 of them doing nothing whilst this mess is happening is madness.

At least with all of this the focus has been turned away from One!

 

[Mojo]

What's even more barmy - the local council subsidises an hourly bus which is near empty all the day, runs from St Erth - St Ives, about 50 Mtr from each station and takes only 12 Min. The replacement bus will take a lot longer, going into each station.

 

[g4mby]

Cornish branches will be bustituted next week in order to stop those annoying pain in the backside commuters from Bristol moaning.

Hey, I'm one of them :toothy7:

On Thursday, the Duty Manager at Temple Meads made an appearance and told passengers that the 1644 departure to Cheltenham would be short formed, a 153 instead of a 158. Due to the expected over crowding, a bus was waiting outside and would call at Yate and Cam and Dursley only. I didn't see one person take him up on his offer. No-one was actually left behind at any station en-route but then it was quieter than normal due to some people taking an extended Christmas and New Year break. We really need a 153 and a 158 at this time but that's another matter. We travel by train because it is more convenient and quicker than travelling by bus so we won't readily take up the offer of the greatly extended journey times of rail replacement bus services unless there is no alternative, i.e. no train at all.

I hope that the rail travellers in Cornwall shout very loudly in the coming week then someone will have to re-think a better way out of this mess.

 

[class 313]

- FGW's network spreads for hundreds of miles, and interferes with several TOCs around it (Central Trains at Gloucester and Newport; Arriva Trains Wales all around South Wales, especially at Newport; Virgin XC at Reading, Oxford, Bristol, Exeter and Plymouth; South West Trains at Bristol, Exeter SD and Guildford; Southern at Gatwick Airport for examples I can think of)

Also FCC at Gatwick... and SWT at Basingstoke.

 

[1VWC]

I hope that the rail travellers in Cornwall shout very loudly in the coming week then someone will have to re-think a better way out of this mess.

Make your views known, and encourage everyone else to to do the same, when Emperor Lockhead and Queen Forster tour their empire in the first refurbished HST in the coming weeks. Might actually make them sit up and take notice, if only due to the fact that their bonuses and share benefits might be at risk.

 

[Nat the Ned]

Bob Crow of the RMT has made this statement: (yup FGW are poorly managed)

> End overcrowding on First Great Western trains by ending the
> scandal of mothballed trains, RMT tells Rail Minister
>
> Britain's largest rail union RMT today called on Railways
> Minister, Tom Harris to end the scandal of increasingly hazardous
> levels of overcrowding on train services run by First Great Western
> in Bristol, the west of England and south Wales by releasing into
> service mothballed trains currently being stored in private railway
> sidings across the region.
>
> RMT General Secretary, Bob Crow said: It is nothing short of an
> act of deliberate sabotage of the region's rail services that long-
> suffering commuters are shoehorned daily into fewer and shorter
> trains and railway staff bear the brunt of the anger and
> frustration experienced by rail users, while we now see perfectly
> serviceable trains withdrawn from passenger service to be
> squirreled away in railway sidings.
>
> As commuters face the prospect of the mass return to work
> following the Christmas/New Year break they must be dreading the
> appalling mess that FGW have created with reports of passengers
> fainting from overcrowding and being left behind on platforms
> unable to squeeze onto packed trains while train service
> cancellations have been running at an average of over 60 per day
> since FGW introduced a new winter timetable on 11 December 2006,
> Bob Crow said.
>
> He also warned rail bosses not to try to fix the shortage of trains
> in the Bristol commute-to-work area by replacing train services in
> Plymouth and Exeter with buses. Any attempt to rob Peter to pay
> Paul by such blatant bustitution will be opposed by this
> union, Bob Crow said.
>
> If the management responsible for the current monumental fiasco
> of wholesale train cancellations, unprecedented delays and staff
> shortages of their own making aren't up to the job, then the
> Minister should take the Greater Western franchise in-house and run
> it directly in the public sector where it belongs, Bob Crow said.
>
> However, Bob Crow warned: “FGW’s ineptitude must not be used as
> an excuse for continuing to allow serviceable trains to languish in
> rail sidings and yards when the public needs them to provide train
> services essential for the region’s environment and economy. I am
> calling on Tom Harris to act now to release any trains currently
> mothballed under ‘warm storage’ arrangements and put them to
> work to deliver the service the public needs and has every right to
> expect. The RMT Parliamentary group of MPs has already met with the
> Minister to raise our concerns about FGW’s rail service cuts and
> we will continue to make the Minister aware about the lamentable
> performance of FGW until he does something to address the shortage
> of trains.”
>
> n ends –
>
>
>
> Notes for editors: First Great Western introduced a new winter
> timetable on 11 December 2006, which has significantly reduced the
> frequency and quantity of trains serving commuters and other rail
> users across the franchise. 41 MPs have so far signed an Early Day
> Motion 311 (see below) submitted by Bristol East MP Kerry McCarthy,
> FIRST GREAT WESTERN TRAIN SERVICE REDUCTIONS IN BRISTOL AND WEST OF
> ENGLAND http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?
> EDMID=31928&SESSION=885
>
> FirstGroup was awarded the new Greater Western franchise by the
> Department for Transport just over a year ago in return paying the
> government around a £1 billion premium. On Friday 5 January 2007
> FirstGroup chief executive, Moir Lockhead and FGW Managing
> Director, Alison Foster received a ‘yellow card’ warning from
> Department for Transport officials that unless services improve
> FirstGroup will lose the Greater Western franchise.
>
> BBC News Points West reported on Friday 5 December that 4 class 153
> train units (single cars) are currently in "warm storage" at
> Eastleigh depot in Southampton although industry sources also
> confirm 3 class 158 train units (two or three cars) are stored at
> the depot, while a further class 158 (798) three car unit is stored
> at Reading. All units were in passenger service on the Greater
> Western franchise before 11 December 2006 and it is feared that
> further units will be withdrawn from passenger service to go into
> “warm storage” as FirstGroup struggle to meet the repayment
> terms of the franchise agreement.
>
>
> Early Day Motion 311
> http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=31928&SESSION=885
>
> FIRST GREAT WESTERN TRAIN SERVICE REDUCTIONS IN BRISTOL AND WEST OF
> ENGLAND
> 27.11.2006
>
>
> McCarthy, Kerry
>
> “That this House notes with concern that from 11th December 2006
> users of First Great Western train services in the Bristol and West
> of England area will suffer the loss of their early morning train
> service from Cardiff to Bristol, early morning services and late
> evening services between Bristol and Gloucester, irregular
> intervals between trains from Bristol to Weston-super-Mare and
> Taunton, reduced capacity on short platform stations to Weston,
> such as Worle, loss of connectivity on trains to and from London
> and extensive reductions in train services to local stations in the
> Bristol area; further notes that First Great Western plans to
> reduce the amount of rolling stock used on train services in the
> Bristol area, including cutting Cardiff-Portsmouth trains from
> three to two coaches, an overall reduction of 1,839 seats, equating
> to a 20 per cent. cut in train seat availability, and a reduction
> in the number of trains from 69 to 57, equating to an 18 per cent.
> cut in trains; calls on the Government to urge First Great Western
> urgently to reconsider the reductions in levels of rolling stock on
> these key services, the consequences for overcrowding and forcing
> passengers onto the already heavily congested road network, with
> all the outcomes for increased carbon emissions, pollution and road
> traffic accidents that these train service cuts will lead to; and
> further calls on the Government to ensure that capacity and train
> service frequency in the Bristol and West of England area are
> maintained and improved.”
>
> Signatures (41)
>
> McCarthy, Kerry
> Browne, Jeremy
> Penrose, John
> McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
> Naysmith, Doug
> Berry, Roger
> Prentice, Gordon
> Spink, Bob
> Caton, Martin
> Corbyn, Jeremy
> Hopkins, Kelvin
> Hoyle, Lindsay
> McDonnell, John
> Campbell, Gregory
> Cryer, Ann
> Drew, David
> Vis, Rudi
> Wareing, Robert N
> Morden, Jessica
> Key, Robert
> Conway, Derek
> James, Sian C
> Leech, John
> Davies, Dai
> Simpson, David
> Jenkins, Brian
> Etherington, Bill
> Francis, Hywel
> Dean, Janet
> Anderson, Janet
> Williams, Stephen
> Foster, Don
> Rowen, Paul
> Morgan, Julie
> Fox, Liam
> Williams, Mark
> Hemming, John
> Simpson, Alan
> Webb, Steve
> Riordan, Linda
> Illsley, Eric
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> FGW Timetable changes for Monday 8 - Friday 12 January
> http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=712
>
> Please note cancellations and alterations will be in operation this
> week (Monday 8 to Friday 12 January) due to a shortage of
> serviceable trains. We apologise for any inconvenience caused.
>
> The following service alteration will apply all week.
>
> St Ives branchline services will be replaced by road transport all
> week
>
> Looe branchline services will be replaced by road transport all week
>
> 05:29 Gloucester to Westbury - Cancelled
> Road transport will operate from Chippenham
>
> 05:45 Bristol Temple Meads to Fareham - Terminates at Westbury
>
> 07:23 Warminster to Cardiff Central - Terminates at Bristol Temple
> Meads
>
> 13:00 Cardiff Central to Westbury - Cancelled
>
> 13:30 Cardiff Central to Fareham will call additionally at Severn
> Tunnel Junction, Patchway, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford,
> Avoncliffe on request and Bradford on Avon
>
> 13:32 Westbury to Cardiff Central – Cancelled
>
> 14:12 Fareham to Cardiff will call additionally at Bradford on
> Avon, Avoncliffe, Freshford, Oldfield Park, Keynsham, Patchway and
> Severn Tunnel Junction
>
> 18:27 Southampton Central to Cheltenham Spa - Terminates at Westbury
> Replaced by road transport from Westbury
>
> 20.11 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach - Cancelled
> Replaced by road transport
>
> 20.50 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads - Cancelled
> Replaced by road transport
>
> 20:59 Weston super Mare to Filton Abbey Wood - Terminates at
> Bristol Temple Meads
>
> 22:05 Fareham to Westbury - Cancelled
> Replaced by road transport
>
> Further information
> Customers are advised to check their journeys before they travel,
> by using the Train Times and Tickets, or Live Updates sections on
> the right of this page, or by calling National Rail Enquiries on
> 08457 48 49 50.
>


 

[Nat the Ned]

Heres some pics from Eastleigh: 158s 153s

Scandal

 

[devon_metro]

It is appauling. I HATE first.

 

[devon_metro]

Personally some large placards with these images on should be printed and there should be riots/protests at Exeter, Plymouth, Bristol, Melksham and other places.

Need to see that on the unit notice boards and in station.

 

[paul1609]

According to Tony Miles Modern Railways correspondant, First Great Western were called in to the "Dft" on friday, possibly for a breach of Franchise warning which would see them lose the Great Western franchise

 

[Nat the Ned]

According to Tony Miles Modern Railways correspondant, First Great Western were called in to the "Dft" on friday, possibly for a breach of Franchise warning which would see them lose the Great Western franchise

From above:
> FirstGroup was awarded the new Greater Western franchise by the
> Department for Transport just over a year ago in return paying the
> government around a £1 billion premium. On Friday 5 January 2007
> FirstGroup chief executive, Moir Lockhead and FGW Managing
> Director, Alison Foster received a "yellow card" warning from
> Department for Transport officials that unless services improve
> FirstGroup will lose the Greater Western franchise.

 

[Dennis]

Would be interesting to know what targets have been set for the improvements and what timescales are involved.

 

[Mojo]

I wonder if them being "called in" by the DfT was actually a congractulory message to say well done for saving so much money and discouraging so many people from travelling that no money will be have to be spent on capacity improvements for many years.

</cynic>

First, however, are experts at buck passing and it's never their fault, so who knows if they'll ever lose the franchise.

 

[Techniquest]

Personally some large placards with these images on should be printed and there should be riots/protests at Exeter, Plymouth, Bristol, Melksham and other places.

Need to see that on the unit notice boards and in station.

Genius! I'm saving a copy of that onto my PC!

 

[1D53]

From TheRailwayCentre:

07.45 Penzance-Padd operated as a single Class 153 (153372) to Plymouth with a 158 (158815) added to work through to Bristol.

 

[Bonemaster]

From TheRailwayCentre:

07.45 Penzance-Padd operated as a single Class 153 (153372) to Plymouth with a 158 (158815) added to work through to Bristol.

Give them some credit they ran a service, it might have been inferior and maybe a bit uncomfortable but it would have still got people to work, and didnt take the easy option of cancelling the service

 

[Z12XE]

Need to see that on the unit notice boards and in station.

Put a Nu Labour logo on the bottom of that.......

 

[Sprog]

Put a Nu Labour logo on the bottom of that.......

No 'norms' will properly understand what that image signifies anyway.....

People seem to be ignorant to the fact that fGW are meerly trying to work to the specification and budget the government has given them and that any companym, be it 'Stagecoach', NEx or even 'Turners Coaches' would be in an identical situation, except with the lack of experiance of running the franchise. :roll:

You'll see one day when the DfT shut all the cornish branchlines, can all rolling stock investment and cut services, but by then it'll be to late.....

 

[devon_metro]

From TheRailwayCentre:

07.45 Penzance-Padd operated as a single Class 153 (153372) to Plymouth with a 158 (158815) added to work through to Bristol.

It wasn't a joke! So much for unit shortages :roll:

 

[Tom]

Nope - it's First's way of moving units to Bristol without paying for extra paths!

 

[Z12XE]

People seem to be ignorant to the fact that fGW are meerly trying to work to the specification and budget the government has given them and that any companym, be it 'Stagecoach', NEx or even 'Turners Coaches' would be in an identical situation, except with the lack of experiance of running the franchise. :roll:

Exactly. I know someone who at the time of the bidding for the Greater Western franchies was working for National Express Group and was part of their bid.

They even went to the SRA who kicked it all off and told them that the Timetable wouldn't work. - they didn't want to know.

Everything was specified exactly how the government wanted it. I know people would then say "but FGW could lease more units if they wanted to" but thats simply not true, the DfT would need to underwrite the lease, and if anyone had of put in their bid the idea of running more services and leasing more trains they simply would not have got the franchise.

Quite why the DfT can't allow FGW to lease the units on a "power by the hour" basis whilst the unit shortages caused by the move in depots has caused though is a good question.

 

[Andrew]

Everything was specified exactly how the government wanted it. I know people would then say "but FGW could lease more units if they wanted to" but thats simply not true, the DfT would need to underwrite the lease, and if anyone had of put in their bid the idea of running more services and leasing more trains they simply would not have got the franchise.

Didn't the DfT proposals include removing Slough stops on Main Line services and removing the 30 minute off peak service betweeen Paddington and Cardiff Central? FGW have managed to keep both of those, so I don't believe your source.

Or were those ideas in the Route Utilisation Strategy rather than the franchise specification? It's hard to remember when there are so many documents proposing different things flying around!

 

[Mojo]

Didn't the DfT proposals include removing Slough stops on Main Line services and removing the 30 minute off peak service betweeen Paddington and Cardiff Central? FGW have managed to keep both of those, so I don't believe your source.

Or were those ideas in the Route Utilisation Strategy rather than the franchise specification? It's hard to remember when there are so many documents proposing different things flying around!

Some of the ideas were floated in this Outline Business Case report done in Aug 2004, which has been obtained under the Freedom of Information Act: -
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_foi/documents/page/dft_foi_612538.pdf

See pg 57 for info about withdrawing the halfhourly train to Cardiff.

"Progress to detailed development and examine crowding impacts especially in the
shoulder peak. It was noted that observed loadings on these services appeared to be
increasing, and that there would be political sensitivities to manage with the Welsh
Assembly."

Under the terms of the franchise (AIUI) the DfT has to give permission (ie: underwrite) any new lease - which includes bringing back old units. First could buy their own rolling stock - as they have done with numerous powercars and coaches - however the ROSCOs are not willing to sell any units that have just been taken off lease and stored - even if the ROSCOs were willing to sell up - would buying these new units affect their budget predictions, which, judging by those other franchises with Huge premium payments - are extremely tight.