Should the quiet coach be called the silence coach?

[DynamicSpirit]

Whilst you certainly should respect the quiet coach, most of the people complaining to other passengers always seem to do so in the most obnoxious fashion possible

I suspect that's partly because most people in the UK do find it very difficult to make 'please be more considerate/stop doing X' kind of requests, and so will tend to stay silent, and just quietly fume inside instead - by the time they do approach the offender, it's because they have become angry enough to overcome their reluctance to ask - resulting in asking a not very polite manner.

 

[Greenback]

I suspect that's partly because most people in the UK do find it very difficult to make 'please be more considerate/stop doing X' kind of requests, and so will tend to stay silent, and just quietly fume inside instead - by the time they do approach the offender, it's because they have become angry enough to overcome their reluctance to ask - resulting in asking a not very polite manner.

That makes sense. But I have also seen lots of people make requests in a very polite way, as well as a few who allow their anger to show.

 

[MattRobinson]

Wish there's been a quiet coach on some of the 153s I've been on recently.

Although, obviously, meant in jest, it has to be pointed out that the quiet coach on a packed 4-car class 220 is somewhat of a joke. 1/4 of the total consist (including first class) of the train a quiet coach, hmm...

 

[HSTEd]

Is there not a problem with overcrowding now leading to reserved advanced purchase tickets leaving people with no choice to be in the Quiet Coach?

One wonders if such a thing is sustainable in the face of today's yield management directed ticket practices.

 

[Yew]

Wish there's been a quiet coach on some of the 153s I've been on recently.

More engine failures

 

[maniacmartin]

Much more annoying in my opinion than people shouting down their phones is people rustling carrier bags and crisp packets. That noise drives me crazy

 

[Mintona]

Did get told off for chatting too loudly to a friend once, although we weren't, I think the lady thought it was a 'silent zone' already.

 

[brianthegiant]

Apparently, C2C's 357s have/did have a special screen placed on the windows of the Quiet Zone section to block out the signal.

this might be a myth? certainly the windows on 22x and pendos are both small and have a metallic tint, so mobile reception is often poorer than than on older stock, especially noticeable using USB 3G dongles (another reason not to have signal blocking).

depending on the situation, I usually try to:
1) do something before I get really ****ed off.
2) get the persons eye (maybe by tapping on the shoulder) and point to the quiet zone sign without saying anything, but with a concerned facial expression, somehow that feels like it has more gravity than telling someone to be quiet, also prevents the situation where someone just kicks back saying you're also making noise.
3) If I do say something, I usually put it in the tone of pleading to someones conscience, and say something like, 'excuse me, I'm not sure if you realise but you've chosen to sit in the quiet zone, you might want to think about using your mobile in the vestibule'.
4) try to maintain a sort of calm social worker tone (though half the time I just degenerate into sarcastic passive-agressive like everyone else
5) If someone, gets irate with me, I find the best response is to listen attentively & nod with empathy for a while, & then say 'yes I can see your point of view, but can but can you see my point of view which is blah blah' (I watched someone do this to diffuse a quite tense situation involving a firearm & remembered it ever since....).

I often find that having stuck my neck out, other passengers are quite grateful in the vestibule small talk getting off the train

 

[JohnB57]

I think the perception that there is a need for a quiet coach speaks volumes about today's society, in which any form of empathy or consideration for other people's needs is rapidly evaporating. Seat hogging, walking past you with mammoth rucksacks, leaving litter, etc all bring out the Victor Meldrew in me I'm afraid.

Having said that, quiet coaches are becoming something of an anachronism in a world where only 8% of people do not own a mobile phone. I don't see the problem with a quiet, brief phone conversation anywhere on a train and I can only assume that people who object to that do so because of their own lack of empathy with the rest of society. I do have an issue with loud "look how (self) important I am" kind of calls, but I object to those equally everywhere else. However, I also have a problem with people expecting special treatment, without additional cost, on our public transport system. How about a 20% premium for quiet coaches? That's what Michael O'Leary would do. And the rest...

 

[Greenback]

I think the perception that there is a need for a quiet coach speaks volumes about today's society, in which any form of empathy or consideration for other people's needs is rapidly evaporating. Seat hogging, walking past you with mammoth rucksacks, leaving litter, etc all bring out the Victor Meldrew in me I'm afraid.

I agree with this part of your post!

Having said that, quiet coaches are becoming something of an anachronism in a world where only 8% of people do not own a mobile phone.

It may be that only 8% do not own a mobile phone, but I doubt there are 92% that are against quiet zones.

I myself welcome the quiet coach where they are available and I am more than happy to go tot he vestibule if I need to make a call. At other times the phone is switched off.

I don't see the problem with a quiet, brief phone conversation anywhere on a train

Neither do I, as long as it is so brief and quiet that I am not aware of it (or barely aware of it).

However, due to the difficulty in legislating when a call becomes obtrusive, I submit that it is easier, and will lead to fewer arguments, if the quiet coach is advertised as a place where mobiles should not be used at all.

and I can only assume that people who object to that do so because of their own lack of empathy with the rest of society.

I don't agree with your assumption. I think it is unfair on those of us who like peace and quiet and support the notion of a quiet carriage.

I do have an issue with loud "look how (self) important I am" kind of calls, but I object to those equally everywhere else. However, I also have a problem with people expecting special treatment, without additional cost, on our public transport system. How about a 20% premium for quiet coaches? That's what Michael O'Leary would do. And the rest...

It's not special treatment. The companies that offer a quiet coach must find it a worthwhile marketing tool to attract people to the trains who may not otherwise travel if they think they cannot read, sleep or work in a quiet environment while on board.

PS I'm not sure if holding up Michael O'Leary as an example actually supports your argument or undermines it!

 

[JohnB57]

I loathe Ryanair and would actually prefer not to travel than to go through the feelbad experience of anything to do with them. Do you know you now have to confirm you don't want to purchase luggage when trying to make a booking? My point was therefore pure irony.

I'm afraid that quiet coaches on public transport are by definition the exception and fall under the heading of special treatment. If that were not the case, there would be one "noisy" coach and the rest would be quiet. Communication has changed since the inception of the quiet coach. That companies still offer them is more to do with the negative publicity of taking them away - heck, we're being sold HS2 on the back of overcrowding - do the TOCs need such a marketing tool, which, incidentally, they don't seem to use anyway?

I too like to travel in peace and quiet, but there are things, perfectly allowable in a quiet coach, that annoy me - and I suspect you - far more than a sensible short and necessary phone conversation. But if, as you submit, quiet coaches should be - as society as a whole is mainly not - mobile free, then that is special treatment and should attract a premium price, which just about anywhere else, it would.

 

[rdwarr]

Doesn't seem that long ago that there were special "No Smoking" coaches.

 

[IanD]

I'm afraid that quiet coaches on public transport are by definition the exception and fall under the heading of special treatment. If that were not the case, there would be one "noisy" coach and the rest would be quiet.

I'm sure one TOC had these but they were labelled the 'Family Coach'. Always avoided them even if travelling with my always perfectly well behaved and never unruly kids.

 

[calc7]

I'm sure one TOC had these but they were labelled the 'Family Coach'. Always avoided them even if travelling with my always perfectly well behaved and never unruly kids.

Sounds like my idea of hell.
I think it was Coach D on FGW HSTs.

 

[222007]

I'd been up Edinburgh for work this time last year and as i was travelling back home i was sat in the quiet coach hadnt realised and sat having a chat the TM politely told me it was the quiet coach i genuinely hadnt realised felt such an idiot i ended my call immediately and move to the vestibule to re-start it.

 

[gnolife]

I've been shouted at by the conductor on a VT service from Euston - Manchester whilst in the First Class quiet coach, with him trying to explain that it was the quiet coach. The funny thing about it is that it was that it was just me in there from Milton Keynes northwards.

 

[12CSVT]

It may be that only 8% do not own a mobile phone, but I doubt there are 92% that are against quiet zones.

Totally agree. I'm one of the 92% that owns a phone but I always make sure it is either switched off or on silent if I am travelling in a quiet coach.

 

[jimm]

I loathe Ryanair and would actually prefer not to travel than to go through the feelbad experience of anything to do with them. Do you know you now have to confirm you don't want to purchase luggage when trying to make a booking? My point was therefore pure irony.

I'm afraid that quiet coaches on public transport are by definition the exception and fall under the heading of special treatment. If that were not the case, there would be one "noisy" coach and the rest would be quiet. Communication has changed since the inception of the quiet coach. That companies still offer them is more to do with the negative publicity of taking them away - heck, we're being sold HS2 on the back of overcrowding - do the TOCs need such a marketing tool, which, incidentally, they don't seem to use anyway?

I too like to travel in peace and quiet, but there are things, perfectly allowable in a quiet coach, that annoy me - and I suspect you - far more than a sensible short and necessary phone conversation. But if, as you submit, quiet coaches should be - as society as a whole is mainly not - mobile free, then that is special treatment and should attract a premium price, which just about anywhere else, it would.

Well I loathe people using mobiles in a quiet coach and would prefer the people using mobiles in them to travel elsewhere in the train. I see no reason why I should empathise with someone who can't empathise with other people's desire not to have to listen to their phone conversations - and who have chosen to sit in a quiet coach for that reason.

'I too like to travel in peace and quiet' - in which case, why on earth are you making a song and dance about quiet coaches? The TOCs know some of their customers value this facility and that's why they offer it.

And how do you define a 'sensible short and necessary phone conversation'. One person's "necessary" conversation will often sound like pointless inane babble to anyone else who hears it. Somehow the human race managed without mobiles for most of its existence, so I fail to see why it is necessary for them and their users to invade every single piece of public space going, just because they can.

On the basis you outline, who could possibly object to someone using their mobile in a cinema or a theatre? Should I have to pay extra to go to a phone-free screening or performance?

As for 'Communication has changed since the inception of the quiet coach'. No it hasn't. They were introduced (by the GW management buyout team pre-First Group's takeover, I think) precisely because of the advent of mobiles.

 

[Greenback]

I'm afraid that quiet coaches on public transport are by definition the exception and fall under the heading of special treatment.

I'm afraid I don't agree with that line of reasoning at all. As I see it, it's just giving the customer a choice.

You can bet your life that if there was a supplemntal charge the people who choose to pay it wouldbe demanding that the quiet coach rules be enforced a lot better than they normally are!

If that were not the case, there would be one "noisy" coach and the rest would be quiet.

Well, I would be quite happy for one carriage to be designated as noisy, and for all of the screaming children, yammering adults and loud music players be charged an additional fee for being allowed to amke as much racket as they like!

Though obviously that would be as unfair and as unlikely as introducing a quiet carriage fee!

Communication has changed since the inception of the quiet coach.

I agree. People cna text now, whereas this wasn't really done when quiet carriages were introduced. There are also far more facilities to email people, either from your phone or laptop, than there would have been in the 1990's.

These things can all be done without distrubing anyone else in the quiet area, so there should be far less need to have a conversation while travelling anyway.

That companies still offer them is more to do with the negative publicity of taking them away - heck, we're being sold HS2 on the back of overcrowding - do the TOCs need such a marketing tool, which, incidentally, they don't seem to use anyway?

HS2 is a seperate issue, but it is anetwork capacity issue that is used to justify the scheme, rather than individual trains being overcrowded.

And FGW certainly refers to Coach A being the quiet coach on its website. They wouldn't bother to mention it unless they thought it was worthwhile.

I too like to travel in peace and quiet, but there are things, perfectly allowable in a quiet coach, that annoy me - and I suspect you - far more than a sensible short and necessary phone conversation. But if, as you submit, quiet coaches should be - as society as a whole is mainly not - mobile free, then that is special treatment and should attract a premium price, which just about anywhere else, it would.

It's not about being mobile free, it's about being quiet. There are lots of things that you can do on a phone now that does not involve any noise. I don't think it's too much to ask for people to turn their phone soff or on to silent mode, and if they have to take or make a call to slip out into the vestibule.

I don;t think it's special treatment at all, it's being polite and considerate.

Doesn't seem that long ago that there were special "No Smoking" coaches.

Indeed. Maybe BR could have raised money by charging people extra to sit in there in the 1960's and 1970's!

I think it was Coach D on FGW HSTs.

When I worked for FGW it was Coach E.

Well I loathe people using mobiles in a quiet coach and would prefer the people using mobiles in them to travel elsewhere in the train. I see no reason why I should empathise with someone who can't empathise with other people's desire not to have to listen to their phone conversations - and who have chosen to sit in a quiet coach for that reason.

Quite.

'I too like to travel in peace and quiet' - in which case, why on earth are you making a song and dance about quiet coaches? The TOCs know some of their customers value this facility and that's why they offer it.

In fairness, he is only suggesting that a supplement should be paid. I am very against that idea, and I doubt it would work as I doubt anyone would pay it. Even the FGW Volo TV's don't require a fee now, presumably for the same reason.

And how do you define a 'sensible short and necessary phone conversation'. One person's "necessary" conversation will often sound like pointless inane babble to anyone else who hears it. Somehow the human race managed without mobiles for most of its existence, so I fail to see why it is necessary for them and their users to invade every single piece of public space going, just because they can.

Agreed. It is the difficulty in deciding what is short, necessary and quiet that I referred to earlier in the thread. It is much easier not to use terms like these, which are undefined and will doubtless lead to disputes.

 

[jimm]

Greenback Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB57

Communication has changed since the inception of the quiet coach.

I agree. People cna text now, whereas this wasn't really done when quiet carriages were introduced. There are also far more facilities to email people, either from your phone or laptop, than there would have been in the 1990's.

These things can all be done without distrubing anyone else in the quiet area, so there should be far less need to have a conversation while travelling anyway.

Unfortunately lots of people think that it's quite alright for their phone to bleep loudly or play a silly song every couple of minutes in a quiet coach while texting people, so long as they don't conduct a voice conversation. It isn't - this kind of carry-on is just as annoying. And many exchanges of bleeps seem to prompt conversations anyway - all too often preceded by loud 'whispers' of "I'm in the quiet coach..."

 

[Flying Snail]

And if someone has to make an emergency call? (remember in such situations you may not easily be able to get to other areas of the train).

And how many emergency calls have you ever had to make? What happens if someone needs to make such a call and there is no reception available? It really is a daft arguement but always the first thing said when anyone suggests blocking cell reception.

A local cinema installed a phone jammer to stop people ruining films by making calls and that line was trotted out, made me wonder how many emergencys had ever occoured in a cinema that required a phone call to be made but did not require a hasty exit from said cinema.

I have been in plenty of cinemas and spent far too much of my life on public transport, ignorant people causing annoyance with their phones is a regular issue with both however I have never experienced a situation where a true emergency phone call needed to be made.

Yes. The coach is there for people to sleep, read a book, work (silently) or listen to a podcast (without noise leaking from the headphones) and perform similar quiet activities. It is not there for people to have a chat, bring your young kids or bring your dog. Sadly it seems the majority of the travelling public do not wish to travel in a quiet and peaceful environment.

I disagree, IMO the majority want to travel in peace and quiet. In most cases it is a relatively small minority who cause all the disturbance, obviously a late service full of drunks or train filled with football fans would be the exception. Next time you are in a busy carriage walk through and take note, I would be surprised if more than a handful were actually making any noise, unfortunately that is all it takes to ruin the journey for everyone else.

I was on a Pendolino in the summer with a couple of friends in the quiet coach. We were talking (not particularly loudly) and a woman a few seats down came down and told us to stop as it was the quiet coach. My friend told her that it wasn't a no talking coach rather a no MP3 player/mobile phone coach, so we just carried on. She was doing something on a laptop (maybe work?) but people aren't supposed to stay totally silent are they?

Did get told off for chatting too loudly to a friend once, although we weren't, I think the lady thought it was a 'silent zone' already.

I think you two need to acquaint yourselves with the definition of "Quiet".

I don't know where this idea came from that noise from a mobile phone or mp3 player is not acceptable but people chattering continuously and noisy children is just fine. Quiet is quiet, noise is noise and if you are unable to refrain from making noise then sit in another carriage, there are more regular coaches than Quiet ones so it can't be that difficult.

Having said that, quiet coaches are becoming something of an anachronism in a world where only 8% of people do not own a mobile phone.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

I don't see the problem with a quiet, brief phone conversation anywhere on a train and I can only assume that people who object to that do so because of their own lack of empathy with the rest of society.

Define quiet. I define it as not making noise therefore in a quiet coach making a call is not quiet. If you know you are going to use your phone then sit elsewhere, if you recieve a call or suddenly have an irresistable urge to make one while sat in a quiet coach then get up and leave the coach for the duration of the call and return afterwards.

 

[ValleyLines142]

For me quiet coaches won't work unless young families are specifically excluded.

I was on 221121 on 1V65 1705 Manchester to Cardiff about three weeks ago and I accidentally booked my seat in the Quiet Zone. I was a bit annoyed at first but then having sat down and thought about it, I realised that nobody has to be completely and utter about silence; as long as you talk in a low tone to a fellow passenger it should be fine.

At Bristol, a couple and their two small children boarded and sat in a table of four opposite me. The kids absolutely SCREAMED THE CARRIAGE DOWN. Admittedly it was late at night and the children were probably tired, but it was very noisy; just as well there were only about four or five other people in the same carriage anyway! Peace was restored when they got off at Newport :P

I was on a Pendolino in the summer with a couple of friends in the quiet coach. We were talking (not particularly loudly) and a woman a few seats down came down and told us to stop as it was the quiet coach. My friend told her that it wasn't a no talking coach rather a no MP3 player/mobile phone coach, so we just carried on. She was doing something on a laptop (maybe work?) but people aren't supposed to stay totally silent are they?

I went to London for the day with two friends a few months ago on a Saturday and we caught the 1715 from Paddington to Cardiff. We were booked in the Quiet Zone (despite asking FGW on the phone not to allocate us here - but it wasn't a major issue) and someone was sat in our seats. I informed them that these seats were our booked seats in a low tone, realising that it was the quiet zone carriage, and they apologised and moved to another seat/coach. A woman then walked up to us and screamed 'WILL YOU LOT BE QUIET NOW, THIS IS THE QUIET ZONE NOT A NIGHTCLUB' and I looked at her with nothing but absolute clear and utter disgust. I told her that we were fully aware this was the QZ carriage, that we weren't making a noise and that we were just informing someone that they had sat in our booked seats. I then told her that passengers are allowed to talk in the QZ as long as they are not loud and do not use mobile phones. I then turned away because I was so angry with this woman, but I think she got the message and didn't say anything else.

I think you are allowed to talk with a fellow passengers on the train, as long as you are speaking in a low-tone. I do feel mobile phone conversations should be forbidden, but then putting phones on silent and texting is a perfectly appropriate alternative. I may actually travel in the QZ on my way to Bristol for the next few weeks commuting as I can do work on the laptop, pending I'm not loud typing or whatever

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'm a fan of the principle of quiet coaches, and as a commuter on FGW I find it works on the majority of occasions. However yesterday I travelled from Glasgow to Birmingham on the 1200 service, and a family consisting of daddy, mummy, two toddlers and a baby in a pushchair boarded the train at Glasgow. As is so often the case, daddy parked the pushchair in the wheelchair space which is in the quiet coach. Daddy wasn't travelling, so the fond farewells occupied the remaining time between boarding the train and departure time, so the train left with the remaining family in the wheelchair space, mummy obviously being too thick to work out what to do with the toddlers. Whilst there they were quiet, but unfortunately after about 15 minutes there were some children loving people occupying two of the table seats near the wheelchair space who took pity on them and invited them to occupy the seats next to them. After this the toddlers were left to make as much noise as they pleased, and at this point I had had enough and moved to coach C which was virtually silent.

For me quiet coaches won't work unless young families are specifically excluded.

It almost beggars belief that you have this attitude towards young families. You seem to conveniently forget that you too were once a young restless child causing chaos in a public place. On busy trains why should a young family be made to stand up when there are seats available in the quiet coach? Trust me, a small child will be a damn sight happier / more content sitting down then it will be standing up. And its human nature that adults make a fuss over young children. A little more tolerance towards others would go along way on our densely populated island.

 

[Greenback]

Unfortunately lots of people think that it's quite alright for their phone to bleep loudly or play a silly song every couple of minutes in a quiet coach while texting people, so long as they don't conduct a voice conversation. It isn't - this kind of carry-on is just as annoying. And many exchanges of bleeps seem to prompt conversations anyway - all too often preceded by loud 'whispers' of "I'm in the quiet coach..."

They should turn the noise off their phone if they cannot turn the phone itself off. It is not acceptable to have such noises in my view.

 

[SS4]

As soon as busy trains are mentioned a whole new can of worms is opened...

 

[RichmondCommu]

As soon as busy trains are mentioned a whole new can of worms is opened...

Some people don't seem to give a monkeys about busy trains providing that they are in their 'happy place'. These are the kind of selfish individuals who refuse to give up their seats to the elderly / pregnant ladies. Well that’s two cans spilling their contents.......

 

[HSTEd]

It might be better to simply get rid of quiet coaches in view of the capacity problems we face.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It might be better to simply get rid of quiet coaches in view of the capacity problems we face.

I concur. It is public transport after all said and done.

 

[Flamingo]

What difference would it make to capacity?

 

[RichmondCommu]

What difference would it make to capacity?

Customers who are at the moment banned from the quiet coach would be allowed to enter it. Therefore more customers are able to get a seat.