89001 'Avocet' to return?

[ryan125hst]

I've just counted the number of coaches labeled, and there are 5 TSO and 1 FO. There doesn't appear to be any catering vehicles labeled at the moment.

That's 1 FO and a RSM off being an 8 carriage train that could be useful to them. Maybe they will get an extra TSO and a DVT so they can run a full rake:

Class 89? - TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-TSO-RSM-FO-FO-DVT

Alternatively, they could be going down Grand Central's route and converting loco hauled coached into HST coaches.

Can anyone provide more information?

 

[The Crab]

Surely A4s have a proven 125mph capability?

 

[ryan125hst]

Surely A4s have a proven 125mph capability?

But Mallard had to be taken off the train and repaired at Peterborough- they can't run at 125mph for very long without the middle big end overheating!

 

[captainbigun]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but we asked both of the members of the AC Loco group looking after the Class 89 exhibit yesterday, and they say not to believe it...

Believe it, it just has a low probability (<5%) of happening.

 

[sprinterguy]

Surely A4s have a proven 125mph capability?

As ryan125hst pretty much explains, even in LNER days the A4s were no more capable of 125mph outside of a one-off special run than the HSTs are capable of 144mph or the 91s are capable of 162mph in everyday service.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I suppose this thread does highlight the need for more 125mph electric locomotives. The ECML perhaps provides a suitable testing/proving slot for a UK guage Traxx or Vectron ? (hope I got the two names right) or an offering from Brush.

 

[ainsworth74]

I suppose this thread does highlight the need for more 125mph electric locomotives.

It does? Beyond an extra locomotive or two to help cover at East Coast what other work is there for a 125mph electric locomotive?

 

[Crossforth]

And with IEP coming in, do we really need them?

 

[Peter Sarf]

It does? Beyond an extra locomotive or two to help cover at East Coast what other work is there for a 125mph electric locomotive?

Tempting to find an electric hauled use for all those nice, soon to be redundant, Mark3 coaches. A replacement for the 91s is on the cards. An alternative to that IEP thing.

 

[Eagle]

Tempting to find an electric hauled use for all those nice, soon to be redundant, Mark3 coaches.

That's a contradiction. If they're redundant, why do they need hauling?

All our 125mph electric lines are spoken for in terms of rolling stock, we don't need more new stuff on those lines.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That's a contradiction. If they're redundant, why do they need hauling?

All our 125mph electric lines are spoken for in terms of rolling stock, we don't need more new stuff on those lines.

If we find a use for them.

Wonder about the (cinderella !) Midland Mainline. Replace the Meridians with Loco Hauled/pushed Mk3s. Add an electric power car to the Meridians and use them on cross-country as bi-modes.

Must admit the reality is that the number of IEPs being ordered does soak up most of the need for bi-mode and 125mph stock.

 

[Eagle]

Wonder about the (cinderella !) Midland Mainline. Replace the Meridians with Loco Hauled/pushed Mk3s. Add an electric power car to the Meridians and use them on cross-country as bi-modes.

Or, add an electric power car to the Meridians and keep them on the Midland Mainline once it's electrified in 2018ish, because they're significantly newer, better built and more reliable than what you propose to replace them with.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Or, add an electric power car to the Meridians and keep them on the Midland Mainline once it's electrified in 2018ish, because they're significantly newer, better built and more reliable than what you propose to replace them with.

Most of the Meridians wont need to stray beyond the wires so might as well remove the diesel engines if they stay on MML. Otherwise use them to strengthen cross country (though iirc they wont talk to Voyagers ?).

 

[WillPS]

Most of the Meridians wont need to stray beyond the wires so might as well remove the diesel engines if they stay on MML. Otherwise use them to strengthen cross country.

Kind of removes the notion that electrification will help with Diesel availability, though.

(though iirc they wont talk to Voyagers ?).

Could be sorted if ever there was the desire to. They can physically couple, it's just that Voyagers use Alstom's on train system (specified so they could couple to Pendolinos, which hardly ever/never happens).

Retrofitting the Voyagers with Bombardier's system, or the Meridians/Pioneers with Alstom's system is not beyond the wit of man.

 

[TGV]

While it seems doubtful that the 89 will re-enter service, if EC were to need more locos the main reason for it I would hazard a guess would be to cover for the 91s as they go in for mods to the pantograph and rear cab roof section as part of the "double" pantograph proposal if it has been given the green light.

And on the topic of 373/2s - they were cleared for 125mph running south of Grantham and could beat class 91 timings with only one power car working. Somewhat overpowered for the job.

 

[D365]

Thought so, just a tad too beasty them 373s!

 

[Harbon 1]

EC would have to pay a lot to get her working again, £300,000 iirc

 

[HSTEd]

Is there not a spare Eurostar half set with power car sitting around somewhere that is almost never used?

I know the first gen TGV sets used chain couplers between the power car and the trailer rakes.... what is used on the Eurostar sets? Could the power car be uncoupled and then coupled to a rake of Mark 3s?

It would cause issues with ETS though I suppose....

 

[captainbigun]

EC would have to pay a lot to get her working again, £300,000 iirc

Not sure where that number has been plucked from!

Anyway, in railway terms, £300k is chicken feed, it barely registers on the cost-o-meter.

 

[Harbon 1]

Not sure where that number has been plucked from!

Anyway, in railway terms, £300k is chicken feed, it barely registers on the cost-o-meter.

The gentleman who is part of the group that owns it

 

[D365]

That money isn't the easiest to come by in preservation groups, I hear... Could get some history funding as it was designed by a British company (Brush), of which it has 'evolved' into the Eurotunnel Class 9 IIRC.

 

[sprinterguy]

That money isn't the easiest to come by in preservation groups, I hear... Could get some history funding as it was designed by a British company (Brush), of which it has 'evolved' into the Eurotunnel Class 9 IIRC.

If East Coast wanted the class 89 back in revenue earning service though, you would expect that they would fork out the cash for the overhaul required! I believe, but might be mistaken, that Sea Containers paid for the work to be done last time the 89 was pulled out of retirement in the late nineties.

 

[captainbigun]

I believe, but might be mistaken, that Sea Containers paid for the work to be done last time the 89 was pulled out of retirement in the late nineties.

You are correct, they did. Under budget it was too!

 

[Crossforth]

You are correct, they did. Under budget it was too!

Probably why it didn't last long...

 

[D365]

Something's come in UNDER BUDGET? Hallelujah!

To be fair, a number of renovation projects in Huntingdon have as well. Wikipedia states that spares for 89001 are identical to that for the Eurotunnel 9s, is this true?

I thought GNER/Sea Containers owned and financed it privately last time around, without a ROSCO.

Probably why it didn't last long...

Wasn't needed with the 91 rebuild complete and the 5 373/2s available.

 

[AndyLandy]

A 125mph locomotive would be nice, but what would it pull? a new rake of MK3's? or mk4's when an Electra was in for repair. Maybe the pretendolino's carriages?

That's quite a cute idea. There's only the one rake of Pretendolino carriages and only the one 89. Not sure if the 125mph running would win a great deal on the WCML though, since as I recall, you're still limited to 110mph without tilt.

 

[captainbigun]

Something's come in UNDER BUDGET? Hallelujah!

To be fair, a number of renovation projects in Huntingdon have as well. Wikipedia states that spares for 89001 are identical to that for the Eurotunnel 9s, is this true?

Wikipedia jibber I'm afraid, might be the odd nut and bolt but not a lot more.

I thought GNER owned and financed it privately last time around, without a ROSCO..

Seacontainers (as owners of the asset and GNER) as above, not GNER per se.

Wasn't needed with the 91 rebuild complete and the 5 373/2s available.

Not entirely. Had numerous defects and the cost of rectification was perceived to be too high.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Probably why it didn't last long...

That will be the shocking motor overhauls undertaken by part of the big Brush family, at the time, that had little or no traction application experience. Ticking timebomb.

 

[TGV]

Is there not a spare Eurostar half set with power car sitting around somewhere that is almost never used?

I know the first gen TGV sets used chain couplers between the power car and the trailer rakes.... what is used on the Eurostar sets? Could the power car be uncoupled and then coupled to a rake of Mark 3s?

It would cause issues with ETS though I suppose....

373 has Scharfenberg 10I couplers at the rear of the power cars. They only work with their own trailers and nothing else.

 

[West Ruislip]

Looks as if East Coast could well go with the HST option according to the Rail Picture Library blog.

http://railpicturelibrary.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/9/east-coast-looks-at-possibility-of-using-89001

East Coast has confirmed that their engineering team has inspected 89001 as part of a general review of traction, primarily to provide cover during their maintenance programme.

The other possibility being explored is the lease of an additional HST from East Midlands Trains. No firm decision, or timescale, has been decided yet and East Coast says : " It's about us looking at what traction is out there."

It is unlikely that both will be used.


What work would need to be done on 89001 before it was available for traffic?

 

[HSTEd]

Again with an EMT HST....

How many HSTs do EMT actually need?