Odd incidents in 1st class

[tsr]

Has FCC removed the '1' from the outside of the end of the 377s that now has the declassified FC section?

Now, that I don't know - but I think quite possibly so. I can't really be bothered to pay much attention to each and every 377! If you lived where I do (and you can probably guess where that is by now, but I'm not saying), you'd understand...

 

[jon0844]

I was just wondering because they've done ALL the 377s haven't they? Assuming they're all declassified at the country end, it would make sense to not just have stickers up but also remove the sign from the outside completely.

I don't expect (or want) you to go and check every single one. Just the next one you use will be fine. In fact, if you forget it's no problem either!!

 

[mralexn]

I have had 2 Incidents in the last week.
Firstly I will say that I take time in choosing what I wear and I do tend to look "smart" most of the time,

The First Incident was at Glasgow Central, Getting on an 11 Car Pendo in Coach C and walking right down to my seat in first class, I got followed all the way by a police officer and when I sat down his words to me were "This is first class, why are you sat here?" After showing him my ticket that he took a good minute looking at! he handed them back, Said "Ok Then" and walked off looking very disappointed.

The second was yesterday on the 1209 XC Service off Edinburgh, I got on and sat down In first Class, The Customer Host or whatever you call them, came round with the trolly, served everyone in the carriage with no problem, then when she got to me she said, "Standard Class is that way, Are you aware this is the First Class section of the train?, You need a First Class ticket to be in this section of the train" To which I replied, "Yes I do have a First Class ticket", and produced it for her to see, She looked at it quickly (£7.30 FC Advance from Edinburgh to Berwick) and just thrown it back down on the table and stormed off with the trolly without even asking me if I wanted anything to drink!, When I then later approached her and asked for a drink she said that "I was not entitled to anything as I was only going on a 40 min journey and I had only paid £7.30 for my ticket so why should I be entitled to anything"

I found her attitude absolutely terrible and I am currently drafting a letter of complaint to XC about her.

However, As I am aware, Most people in the FC section were travelling a lot further than me, Is there some sort of secret hidden rule I do not know about with XC that you have to pay over a certain amount for your ticket or you need to be travelling for longer than say 1 hour to get any complimentary stuff.
would be interesting to know, Although this experience has left a very bitter taste in my mouth for XC.

 

[table38]

I remember the getting a Voyager back from Reading years ago before XC took over. It was in one of the west-facing bays (probably Platform 3) with first class at the east end.

The guard was stood at the first door, and tried to send me down to the next door as "this is a First Class Only door". I did have a First Class ticket which I was happy to produce!

 

[Be3G]

Has FCC removed the '1' from the outside of Now, if the RPI knew it was declassified then that would be it. I couldn't exactly say 'Ha, I only had a standard class ticket!'.

But on the trains where RPIs didn't know, they'd begin to go for the PF before I could convince them it was declassified. In 99% of cases, they'd then apologise and move on.

Back when I used to commute to Egham from London a few years ago, it was sometimes quicker to catch a train for Windsor (Riverside) to Staines and then change to a Weybridge train. The Windsor trains weren't timetabled to have first class accommodation although they nearly always did have it, so I'd happily take a seat in first with my standard-class season. Very handy for doing work on my laptop thanks to the tables and power sockets! I tended to travel contra-peak so it was nearly always empty in there, no doubt helped by the fact that there was often no indication that first class had been declassified; only sometimes would there be a textual announcement about it on the dot-matrix displays (the guard wouldn't say anything out loud). The SWT guards/RPIs always realised it was declassified though and never gave me the trouble you described.

 

[Deerfold]

There is a dress code for the VSOE, though, isn't there?

There's a dress code for the restaurant cars on the VSOE. If not suitably dressed in at least a suit and tie (or preferably a dinner jacket) you may be asked to dine in your compartment.

Well worth dressing up for - and they do some vey good food.

Talking of people not expecting you to be valid in 1st class, an awful lot of people are surprised I've been on the VSOE (Venice - Vienna - London).

 

[jon0844]

The SWT guards/RPIs always realised it was declassified though and never gave me the trouble you described.

I probably only had about 20 incidents max, in many years of daily travel on FCC, so it wasn't really an issue. Some RPIs were funny about it, even on the trains where a number of people in FC (if not all of them) knew it was declassified and on standard class tickets, but it was always resolved without a PF.

In one case a RPI, upon being told it was declassified after I'd boarded, said he was going to have to cancel a PF he'd just given to someone beforehand.

I felt a bit sorry for the RPI as he'd clearly given a PF to someone who didn't know it was declassified and had sat in first class with a standard class ticket anyway!

I quickly discovered that FCC RPIs often don't know what trains they're on (as in where they started, which service it is etc) which is probably why they often started 'You do realise this is first class', followed by me saying 'No it isn't!' or, to avoid playing games or being seen to be a smartarse, saying 'No, it's declassified'.

 

[NSE]

I'd love to do that one day, I do like dressing up in the whistle every so often. VSOE is one thing, a sort of romance or occasion. The 11:43 to Birmingham, first class or not, just doesn't warrant the same :P

 

[DarloRich]

god it must be awful for you first class types, having all these terrible things happen to you (the worst being that the plebs might share your exclusive refuge).

I mean imagine having NOT to pay for your refreshments. Imagine them almost FORCING you to eat free cake?

Come the revolution you will all be shot anyway and all trains will offer first class standards for a third class price

(BTW the only first class i do is the sleeper - but that is ok and will not result in my execution!)

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Back when I used to commute to Egham from London a few years ago, it was sometimes quicker to catch a train for Windsor (Riverside) to Staines and then change to a Weybridge train. The Windsor trains weren't timetabled to have first class accommodation although they nearly always did have it, so I'd happily take a seat in first with my standard-class season. Very handy for doing work on my laptop thanks to the tables and power sockets! I tended to travel contra-peak so it was nearly always empty in there, no doubt helped by the fact that there was often no indication that first class had been declassified; only sometimes would there be a textual announcement about it on the dot-matrix displays (the guard wouldn't say anything out loud). The SWT guards/RPIs always realised it was declassified though and never gave me the trouble you described.

Reminds me of when TPX 158s were transferred to FGW, 158798 had a big FC section in the middle, and no-one seemed to use it initially apart from me! Even the guards said no-one knew it was de-classified. I doubt many knew that you couldn't exactly upgrade to FC fares either on the Pompey to Cardiff corridor, or even the Severn Beach line.

Same happens with the SWT 158 hire in, though some people use it I've heard comments like 'no we can't go any further, it's First Class only' as I just bypass them and storm in! I've seen guards trying to get people to use it too when it's busy, reminding passengers that you can sit there on a standard class ticket.

 

[Ascot]

Well of course you're going to draw attention to yourself wearing tatty jeans and a hoodie in First. It's not that it's wrong but rather it's different and unusual. If you do insist on drawing attention to yourself by purposely wearing clothes with holes in then you might as well say "do you know who I am?".

On the flip side when I first started travelling for work, I was queueing in the pre-board when a gentleman pointed out that I shouldn't be hear as it's pre-boarders only. Since he was asking lots of questions about my status and job I had some fun of my own. I went to the gate agent and said this gentleman was questioning me in a way that I'm uncomfortable in. Now this being America and me being 19 at the time, security quickly came and questioned him to one side. He did make his flight although had to gate check his back due to limited space, he also sat next to me for the flight to which he never spoke.




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[HST Power]

god it must be awful for you first class types, having all these terrible things happen to you (the worst being that the plebs might share your exclusive refuge).

I wouldn't call them plebs. Though I always travel First Class, and there's no excuse for sitting in First Class if you haven't got the right ticket. Just as you wouldn't board a train without a ticket, it's cheating the company, and the people who have obeyed the rules and paid up for the privellege.

A couple of years ago, I was going from Newcastle to London on the 0925 East Coast service. Just after we left York, the train crew came around with drinks, and I had a coke. Shortly afterwards, this Indian man comes up to me and asks for the tab. In my mind, I'm thinking 'why the hell does he want the tab?' but I gave it to him anyway.

He then went back to his seat, put the tab between his teeth, and started picking out bits of food. This forum doesn't have smilies for feeling sick, though I'm sure you can imagine!

 

[scarby]

Like some others, I'm pretty astonished to read some of these tales. I thought now in the days of cheap advances opening up 1st class for "all" those days of snobbery were long gone. Especially as when I've travelled 1st class it's always a completely "mixed bag" of passengers, so I can't understand why anyone would draw attention for being "dressed down".

 

[GodAtum]

I despise people who take up seats in 1st who dont have a valid ticket. The number of times I've had to wait for an RPI to come and kick them out!!

I also hate it when youths come in an cause a nuisance. It's OK if there are other people there but if I'm on my own I fell quite intimidated.

 

[krisk]

First has lost the snobbery and has become open to everyone

 

[jon0844]

We all judge people, but most people keep their mouth shut.

I can (and I bet most people can) tell when I think someone won't have a ticket, and that could down to their dress, their attitude (playing music out loud, feet on seats, a general look of trying to wind other people up) and other factors. In most cases, when an RPI turns up I'll be proved right.

Every now and then I'll be wrong, and can think 'Lucky I didn't say anything'. And, indeed, I won't ever say anything because it's not for me to judge - even if I can't help it privately.

It cuts both ways. Clearly people are just as quick to judge people who dress smart, thinking of them as snobs/posh in a derogatory way. You only need to read The Guardian to see how anyone who has made a success of themselves is portrayed in a less than positive light, especially when it comes to politics.

 

[Buttsy]

Friends of mine travelling to a Friday night game at Burton a few years back took advantage of teh £20 1st class advance fare there. They were in football shirts and had 4 packs in carrier bags. Scaves by teh window etc. Conductor came round with glee written all over his face (I'm told), expecting to chuck them out. Needless to say they weren't and immdeiately insisted on free tea, coffee and papers. Exit one conductor grumbling...

I often use first class on TPE from Manchester to Glasgow as the extra £10-£15 is worth it to avoid the crush at Piccadilly and effectively have a toilet all to ourselves (no-one thinks to walk through to use the disabled one...)

 

[GodAtum]

If you have the correct ticket and behave in a socially acceptable manner then you can dress as scruffy as you want. But swearing and shouting at each other and bullying other passengers is no way to behave no matter what class you are travelling in.

 

[calc7]

I often use first class on TPE from Manchester to Glasgow as the extra £10-£15 is worth it to avoid the crush at Piccadilly and effectively have a toilet all to ourselves (no-one thinks to walk through to use the disabled one...)

On some of those services some poor folk have no choice but to stand in the abovementioned toilets - they're wedged!

 

[90019]

I also hate it when youths come in an cause a nuisance.

So you're quite happy for middle aged people to come in and cause a nuisance?

 

[Tubeboy]

We all judge people, but most people keep their mouth shut.

I can (and I bet most people can) tell when I think someone won't have a ticket, and that could down to their dress, their attitude (playing music out loud, feet on seats, a general look of trying to wind other people up) and other factors. In most cases, when an RPI turns up I'll be proved right.

Indeed, when I was on the barriers many moons ago, the vast majority of the time I would be right about a punter, body language is a major clue, before they even speak. Of course once in a while I would be wrong, and it would very quickly pull you down to Earth. Young lad, doing the silly gangster walk, angry look on his face, hood covering part of his face. He then approaches me, and pulls the hood down, and speaks to me in a very friendly tone, enquiring about times of trains, and comes across as a very pleasant person. He had the correct ticket as well. Nice to be proved wrong! We all judge people, its human nature.

 

[Monty]

If its one thing this job has taught me is never judge a book by it's cover, I have often seen passengers who you would think have not paid at all let alone for a first class fare. Yet when challenged they have the correct tickets! As an RPI I quickly learned to pay little attention to what people where wearing and focus more on their behaviour and body language as that could tell you far more about a passenger than clothing or appearance ever could.

I also find it amusing when passengers in first class complain about others travelling in first who assumed they have not paid for the priviledge to sit there. I once new a regular first class user on the Reading line, scruffy as anything but what many did not know was that he worked for a large computer game developer and was not required to wear a suit to work so he always dressed down, and who could blame him if you were stuck in an office and were allowed to dress casual for work you would do it to am I right? Yet people assumed he had not paid for a first class ticket because he did not wear a suit... :roll:

 

[rdwarr]

Think about the 5:15 on Quadrophenia. The drugged-up mod ("Out of my brain on the train") goes and sits in First Class along with all the posh guys - because he has bought a First Class ticket.

 

[work-traveller]

Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham New Street
Was on the Cross Country service some time ago in 1st (well - they call it first). A lady got on at Stoke and perched on a seat in the same carriage. I'm afraid to say myself and a few fellow travellers instantly assesed the situation and reconed that she didn't have a valid ticket - I know, I know, books and covers and all that. Anyway, the train manager made a bee-line for the lady to check he tricket and to cut a long story short the lady had a standard class ticket from Birmingham to Stoke and no return ticket. The train manager explained that she was:

1) On a train without a valid ticket, for which she could be fined as she boarded at a manned station.

2) In the 1st class carriage, presumably without the expectation of purchasing a 1st ticket.

So the train manager went to get their ticket machine, whilst the lady in question scurried off to hide somewhere else on the train. I'm not sure if the train manager pursued the lady down the train and frankly I'm not sure the lady actually understood what the train manager had said to her (or if she was doing the old 'I don't understand you' routine).

 

[PFX]

This is a very lengthy argument over nothing really. I used to use GNER 1st on the ECML frequently and I was never once dressed in a suit. I travelled in clothes that would remain comfortable for a 4h + journey. Nevertheless, I treated 1st class as just that (it offering a higher standard of travel at that time) and would expect fellow passengers to do the same. I firmly believe that good manners are more than suitable equivalent to the standard of ones dress.

I'm sure we are all more than familiar with ill-mannered obnoxious men in suits? It isn't the clothes that make the person but rather the way in which they conduct themselves. I realise there are certain exceptions where a minimum dress should be expected but I don't believe the train is one of them.

As for stories of 1st class travel with standard class tickets, I find that the Stansted Express usually has at least two tourists asked to upgrade or move when I get that service.

 

[telstarbox]

However, As I am aware, Most people in the FC section were travelling a lot further than me, Is there some sort of secret hidden rule I do not know about with XC that you have to pay over a certain amount for your ticket or you need to be travelling for longer than say 1 hour to get any complimentary stuff.
would be interesting to know, Although this experience has left a very bitter taste in my mouth for XC.

XC have info about their First Class catering here - nothing about a minimum journey time (there is a 70 mins rule for food on East Coast) or a minimum fare - the page even says "Our First Class tickets can actually be cheaper than Standard Anytime tickets"!

I've been offered a cup of tea on a 20-minute XC journey in First before. Sounds like she was making it up!

 

[scotsman]

There was also the time that the staff on East Coast decided to throw our complimentary food on the table....

 

[starrymarkb]

A hoard of Goths being upgraded to first class as our booked coach had broken Air Conditioning on ICE 1711 from Berlin to Leipzig. We got so many evil looks from the businessmen in First (only those who paid for seat reservations were upgraded)

 

[SS4]

Judging is human nature, it's when you act upon the prejudice that it becomes a bad idea. Once I was returning from Euston to Birmingham with Virgin in First (the Quiet coach too so my mp3 player was off) when a load of people (iirc it was the Clothes show) board at BHI and starting playing what their dodgy brain thought was music off **** phone speakers. I cannot be sure if they had First tickets but very, very unlikely since I've found everyone in first abides by the rules and if they don't respect the quiet zone it's unlikely they'd respect first. Thankfully it was only ten minutes to New St.

 

[Howardh]

I often use first class on TPE from Manchester to Glasgow as the extra £10-£15 is worth it to avoid the crush at Piccadilly and effectively have a toilet all to ourselves (no-one thinks to walk through to use the disabled one...)

Oh...now we're talking! In the space between First Class and the bog, the furthest of the last two seats opposite the sliding toilet door is way better than any first-class seat - it's the only seat on the train where you don't feel the icy blast of the air conditioning! Aim for it every time, me, and I'll hang around if it's occupied hoping the passenger gets off!!