The Yorkshire Pullman / The West Riding Limited

[Condor7]

I am looking at the new timetable on line from 9th December onward and it looks like The North Briton (edit:This is a mistake see below) previously 06.30am Bradford - Kings Cross has gone as a titled train.

Does anyone know if that is the case, or has it been retimed?

 

[43167]

The 0630 Bradford-Kings Cross was previously known as The Yorkshire Pullman, and is now known as The West Riding Limited.

 

[Deerfold]

I am looking at the new timetable on line from 9th December onward and it looks like The North Briton previously 06.30am Bradford - Kings Cross has gone as a titled train.

Does anyone know if that is the case, or has it been retimed?

It's currently "The West Riding Limited". I catch it once or twice a week (And have since the Eureka change) but don't recognise the name you give.

 

[eastdyke]

Long gone?

Was Leeds City - Glasgow Queen Street in BR days.

 

[87015]

Less of this Eastern piffle, the best North Briton is still going strong

 

[Condor7]

It's currently "The West Riding Limited". I catch it once or twice a week (And have since the Eureka change) but don't recognise the name you give.

I feel a right twit, I meant 'The West Riding Limited' but had just been reading about the North Briton, and typed it without thinking.

Anyway the 06.30am from Bradford still does not seem to have a title in the new on line timetable that I downloaded.

 

[Eagle]

Which timetable PDF are we talking about? Grand Central's PDF doesn't list any named trains.

 

[Deerfold]

Which timetable PDF are we talking about? Grand Central's PDF doesn't list any named trains.

It's not a Grand Central train. It's the East Coast Train from Forster Square.

It is listed in the new paper timetable I have sat next to me.

It's on page 41 of the new timetable on the website: http://static.eastcoastcdn.co.uk/cd... coast timetable 9 dec 2012 - 18 may 2013.pdf

 

[34D]

When did the Yorkshire Pullman name go?

If I understand correctly, the names Yorkshire Pullman, West Riding Limited and Leeds Executive were all named trains in the Deltic era.

By c.1980 the only one to survive was the Leeds Executive, being renamed Yorkshire Pullman in the early 80s (when it was non stop Leeds to Kings Cross), then stops at Wakefield, then Bradford, then converted to mk4 with a class 47 drag, then electric throughout, then a couple of stops further south.

When did the name Yorkshire Pullman stop being used, please?

Could a mod change the thread title, please?

 

[Welshman]

IIRC, "The Leeds Executive" [along with "The Hull Executive" and "The Bradford Executive"] were products of the speed-up introduced in the Deltic era, as you say.

But the "Yorkshire Pullman" certainly pre-dates the Deltic era.
Here is a painting of it being hauled by an A4 pacific, leaving Leeds Central in 1959:-

http://www.railart.co.uk/gallery/jones_w1.html
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Talking of "The North Briton", I just happened to come across this photo by Mike Mitchell, showing the train leaving Leeds City in 1958:-

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4091/5022294149_aac6e763e9_b.jpg

So, where are the look-out and the hi-vi vests?

 

[AlexS]

With the number of railway staff killed in those 'halcyon' no 'elf n safety days, it's entirely possible the look-out had been bounced by the previous service! (firmly tongue in cheek but a warning perhaps against rose tinted spectacles, some changes really are for the better!).

 

[Welshman]

I know!
You have to wonder what they were talking about, that it was far more important than their personal safety.

 

[LE Greys]

The Yorkshire Pullman, the Tees-Tyne Pullman and the Newcastle Pullman lasted into GNER days before being put to bed in 2002, I think. Unfortunately, the titles had long since been relegated to a footnote in the timetable and a piece of card in the window. Really, BR had only used them to designate their full dining service, which GNER expanded on, so they weren't really special any more. However, they missed a trick by not naming their fastest Newcastle diagram the Golden Jubilee, as did EC with the Diamond Jubilee.

I've heard North Briton attached to the Leeds-Aberdeen diagram a few times, although that's never been official. According to Peter Semmens, at one time it would have been operated by the prototype HST, but that never happened.

 

[Condor7]

It's not a Grand Central train. It's the East Coast Train from Forster Square.

It is listed in the new paper timetable I have sat next to me.

It's on page 41 of the new timetable on the website: http://static.eastcoastcdn.co.uk/cd... coast timetable 9 dec 2012 - 18 may 2013.pdf

Thanks for that, I am pleased it is still listed.

I was looking at the Network Rail PDF taken from their website, and have just rechecked and no mention of the West Riding Limited is made.

 

[Condor7]

I did a botched up posting about this a few weeks ago, which I hope you don't mind me redoing properly now, especially as the new timetable is now in force.

I have expressed my views on here before about titled trains.
I like the idea of selected trains having titles, so long as there is something about them that makes them that bit different from the other timetabled services. I would have no desire to see them given out add hoc.

What I find a shame is illustrated with The West Riding Limited.
The title is not given in the National Rail timetable. (well not the on line one anyway) It does not appear in the 'Rail Times' timetable either.

I was on Leeds station the other morning, and the title was not mentioned on the display board, and was not mentioned in the station announcements when announcing it's arrival from Bradford.

In fact the only way anyone would know it was a titled train is from either the East Coasts own timetable booklet, and by the paper stickers on the door windows.

Like I say I like the idea of it having a title, but wonder what the point is when the title is largely ignored?

 

[3141]

Probably there isn't much point nowadays. When a titled train was the fastest on the route the name helped to emphasise that there was something special about it. Or, like The Pines Express, that it was a through train over a route that otherwise would require at least one change. I suppose the current West Riding Limited is a bit special as it's a through train to London from Bradford, but mostly it's just another of the half-hourly services from Leeds to Kings Cross.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Probably there isn't much point nowadays. When a titled train was the fastest on the route the name helped to emphasise that there was something special about it. Or, like The Pines Express, that it was a through train over a route that otherwise would require at least one change. I suppose the current West Riding Limited is a bit special as it's a through train to London from Bradford, but mostly it's just another of the half-hourly services from Leeds to Kings Cross.

Isn't it the fastest train of the day southbound though? It calls only at Wakey after Leeds, doing LDS-KGX in 1h59. In effect it's the West Yorks headliner.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

IIRC, "The Leeds Executive" [along with "The Hull Executive" and "The Bradford Executive"] were products of the speed-up introduced in the Deltic era, as you say.

The Bradford Executive used to travel via the Wortley Curve, illegally closed in the 1980's I think. This line avoided Leeds.

 

[Deerfold]

Isn't it the fastest train of the day southbound though? It calls only at Wakey after Leeds, doing LDS-KGX in 1h59. In effect it's the West Yorks headliner.

Indeed - and it's only had the name since the Eureka changes brought in the faster journey time (fastest by about 15 minutes, with nothing coming close Northbound). Not that it quite manages 1h59 on a Monday very often.

 

[ainsworth74]

Not that it quite manages 1h59 on a Monday very often.

Would this be another headline train time for me to keep an eye on I've been monitoring the Flying Scotsman's performance for the last two weeks and so far it has yet to arrive at Kings Cross bang on time and has only arrived within five minutes of booked time once.

 

[Deerfold]

Would this be another headline train time for me to keep an eye on I've been monitoring the Flying Scotsman's performance for the last two weeks and so far it has yet to arrive at Kings Cross bang on time and has only arrived within five minutes of booked time once.

If you like. I use it most Mondays. It's usually after 0900 but before 0905 when it gets in.

The next service from Leeds is usually, on the odd occasion I catch it, a few minutes early.

 

[DarloRich]

The evening Kings Cross - Hu(e?)ll train is still called the Hull Executive