Bus safety

[BestWestern]

No I was stood in the bus ready to alight and I was directly behind the parition between the cab and saloon.The cab is open to the bus as are most these days,the driver is an ignorant prat who does this to many people .

If that's the case then report him, the company might care enough to look into it! You mention some drivers needing their CPC; sadly I'd venture that in this sort of case it will make absolutely no difference. Like the NVQ that went before it, it's widely regarded as a bit of a joke, which to be perfectly honest it is. It has failed to introduce any sort of professionalism into the industry, largely because the operators don't want it (means paying a decent wage). It is merely a pointless day in a classroom filling in meaningless bit of paper. Absolute waste of time, as with most EU red tape.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Yet, another issue now. Not so much the drivers fault and again, not sure if this is allowed but today we had a different bus B201 EFM (Note to mods: please remove reg number if need be) and a different driver and noticed the speedo kept flicking, I thought it was just when the gears changed, but then noticed as he got onto the M-way that the speedo was in fact not working at all and just staying at 0, the flickering was from vibrations. I don't know if I should have done this, but I managed a snap:

(Look at the speedo and how it's at 0 on the motorway)

I think he noticed I was taking a photo so he then positioned his arms to where I couldnt see it then took his gloves off and covered the speedometer with them. He then proceeded to note it down on the little sheet to note down damages on. In my view, the bus shouldn't have been driven if the correct speed can't be determined, especially on the motorway. I just want to see your views on this.

Thanks

 

[Lrd]

I just want to see your views on this.

I think it is worth reporting, a quick google and this was found:

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q601.htm

 

[jon0844]

I think it is worth reporting, a quick google and this was found:

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q601.htm

What a get-out!

However, if the speedometer develops a fault whilst being used or a defect has been discovered then all steps must be taken to rectify the fault with reasonable expedition. This exception applies only when the defect develops and must be repaired before the next journey.

You just know that any dodgy company, which allows vehicles to fall into such a poor state of repair that things like this happen, would claim it only just happened there and then.. and there would be no real way to disprove it. The police would just say 'Go and fix it now' and that's it.

Well, now the driver has added it to the fault book it might - if that's what was actually written, as against 'someone is watching me'!

 

[anthony263]

If the speedo isnt working when the driver did he checks then in my opinion the bus should not have been sent out instead it should have been put in the worksops for the mechanics to sort out the problem.

VOSA used to be really strick at one time, in fact if this bus had been pulled over I think the inspector would have ordered the bus to be taken out of service

 

[jon0844]

I don't think there are many VOSA people around now are there?

I see a few but only because there's a weighbridge in Hatfield for the A1(M) and they occasionally do stings. I am sure they're spread very thin.

Like most rules these days, there's no enforcement so most people catch on to this and ignore the rules completely.

 

[Shrimper]

The only issue with speedos is that they are incredibly difficult to check as part of a walk-around check! Most don't register until about 10mph, and even moving the vehicle during the check can be problematic considering how space is at a premium in most depots. Thus there have been occasions where I have taken a bus to start a service at a stop right next to the depot only to discover the defect as I go sailing down the road away from the depot and with passengers on board! Though the vehicle was demic-ed later in the day when I brought it back in.

Oddly, Dennis Tridents seem to be the worst for this in my experience.

 

[jon0844]

The rule to let you proceed and fix at the first available opportunity is clearly to allow you to do the right thing without being punished, and accept that you might not notice the fault until you're already driving.

The problem is that it also allows the less reputable firms to not worry about the fault and wait until they're stopped (or someone takes a photo!).

I am not sure how you could alter things to stop the latter problem.

 

[34D]

Sounds like this companies drivers urgently need to take their CPC tests or else be banned from driving.This morning coming home on our local bus(not Arriva) rang bell,heard it in cab ,stopping sign came on,driver sales past stop.My wife shouted that we have rung bell ,he replied ,didnt hear it .This not the first time with this driver ,he is ignorant and completely charmless unlike the other drivers.Hope you get satisfaction with this problem ,your school are partly to blme as well ,talk to a school govenor and Ofsted this will wake up the parties invloved.

CPC is a course WITHOUT a test.

Regarding the bell, did you notice whether the light on his dash was working? If you can tell us what type of bus this was, we should be able to tell you where the light is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yet, another issue now. Not so much the drivers fault and again, not sure if this is allowed but today we had a different bus B201 EFM (Note to mods: please remove reg number if need be) and a different driver and noticed the speedo kept flicking, I thought it was just when the gears changed, but then noticed as he got onto the M-way that the speedo was in fact not working at all and just staying at 0, the flickering was from vibrations. I don't know if I should have done this, but I managed a snap:

(Look at the speedo and how it's at 0 on the motorway)

I think he noticed I was taking a photo so he then positioned his arms to where I couldnt see it then took his gloves off and covered the speedometer with them. He then proceeded to note it down on the little sheet to note down damages on. In my view, the bus shouldn't have been driven if the correct speed can't be determined, especially on the motorway. I just want to see your views on this.

Thanks

Wow: driving gloves AND a tgx150 ticket machine! From the VOSA 'PSV Inspection Manual' page 111 out of 180:

Method of Inspection 1. For all vehicles, check a speedometer or tachograph is: a. fitted. b. complete and operative (this does not involve moving the vehicle for confirmation). c. able to be illuminated.

Reason for Failure 1. For all vehicles, a speedometer or tachograph: a. not fitted. b. incomplete, clearly inoperative, or with dial glass broken or missing (see note in application). c. cannot be illuminated.

And that is all I can see that relates to speedometers and not tachographs.

 

[bluenoxid]

Sorry to drag this back up but I saw this and thought of this thread.

http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=7556&categoryid=0

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Just a bit of an update:
I am such a dipstick, because it turns out I never got round to posting the original letter in the first place, having found it in a pile of general paper and letters, stamped and addressed. I wondered why I had not received a reply, it never made it . So I will be printing a new one off and altering the date BUT I will be adding some more stuff to it after what happened today which left me pretty peed off so much.

I know it may have been started by the kids, and wouldn't have happened if they didn't do what they did, but the way the driver was dealing with it was unacceptable.

Basically, I was sitting on the bottom deck at the back and bits of food and sandwiches were being thrown down the stairs. A year 7 told me that the 6th formers at the back were throwing them at year 7's at the front of the top deck and they were throwing them down the stairs. I must admit it made abit of a mess, but what can you expect from a school bus full of silly immature children? It was my stop and as my brother went to the front I could hear the driver shouting at my brother so I raced down and asked what the matter was and the bus driver was pointing at my brother telling him "DO YOU UNDERSTAND" and the conversation went as below:

Me: "What's going on?"
Drv: "I'm telling your brother to stop throwing **** down the stairs"
(My brother was nearly in tears at this point, I asked him if he threw anything and to tell the truth and he said he never)
Me: "Well he never threw anything and you can't prove it"
Drv: "Well I'm going to find out otherwise your all walking"
Me: "Well it wasn't my brother so don't blame him unless you have proof"
Drv: "I don't care who it was, I'm going to find out"
(Some year 7 came down and said it was *James, who is my bro's mate, driver got out of the cab and raced upstairs and was shouting at this year 7, telling him he is not getting the bus any more)

*James is not real name

My brother is in tears and doesn't want to get the bus any more because he is scared of the driver telling him off for something he didn't do. The way the driver had a go at my brother and at *James and the way he was shouting was totally out of order. Maybe a more civilised word would have been better, not all this un-necessary shouting. To make somebody scared to get a bus is out of order, downright out of order in my opinion, me and my brother are actually peed off at the moment. I will be mentioning the whole incident and complaining and I will be requesting we have a different driver otherwise I will be reporting him to the police for dangerous driving and driving a faulty vehicle. The driver honestly is a [WORD REMOVED] and shouldn't be allowed to drive buses, he needs getting off the road. If it happens again I'm going to go absolutely ballistic at the driver

I need to cool down now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
May I add that I saw the driver throw something up the stairs at somebody and in quite an aggressive manner. Could do him for assault

 

[Qwerty133]

Just a bit of an update:
I am such a dipstick, because it turns out I never got round to posting the original letter in the first place, having found it in a pile of general paper and letters, stamped and addressed. I wondered why I had not received a reply, it never made it . So I will be printing a new one off and altering the date BUT I will be adding some more stuff to it after what happened today which left me pretty peed off so much.

I know it may have been started by the kids, and wouldn't have happened if they didn't do what they did, but the way the driver was dealing with it was unacceptable.

Basically, I was sitting on the bottom deck at the back and bits of food and sandwiches were being thrown down the stairs. A year 7 told me that the 6th formers at the back were throwing them at year 7's at the front of the top deck and they were throwing them down the stairs. I must admit it made abit of a mess, but what can you expect from a school bus full of silly immature children? It was my stop and as my brother went to the front I could hear the driver shouting at my brother so I raced down and asked what the matter was and the bus driver was pointing at my brother telling him "DO YOU UNDERSTAND" and the conversation went as below:

Me: "What's going on?"
Drv: "I'm telling your brother to stop throwing **** down the stairs"
(My brother was nearly in tears at this point, I asked him if he threw anything and to tell the truth and he said he never)
Me: "Well he never threw anything and you can't prove it"
Drv: "Well I'm going to find out otherwise your all walking"
Me: "Well it wasn't my brother so don't blame him unless you have proof"
Drv: "I don't care who it was, I'm going to find out"
(Some year 7 came down and said it was *James, who is my bro's mate, driver got out of the cab and raced upstairs and was shouting at this year 7, telling him he is not getting the bus any more)

*James is not real name

My brother is in tears and doesn't want to get the bus any more because he is scared of the driver telling him off for something he didn't do. The way the driver had a go at my brother and at *James and the way he was shouting was totally out of order. Maybe a more civilised word would have been better, not all this un-necessary shouting. To make somebody scared to get a bus is out of order, downright out of order in my opinion, me and my brother are actually peed off at the moment. I will be mentioning the whole incident and complaining and I will be requesting we have a different driver otherwise I will be reporting him to the police for dangerous driving and driving a faulty vehicle. The driver honestly is a [WORD REMOVED] and shouldn't be allowed to drive buses, he needs getting off the road. If it happens again I'm going to go absolutely ballistic at the driver

I need to cool down now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
May I add that I saw the driver throw something up the stairs at somebody

I would suggest a phone call if it is making your brother scared to go on the bus so action can be taken quicker and I would hope the driver in question would either be moved onto a different job or suspended while this incident is investigated.

 

[anthony263]

A call to the company or to the school would be best to deal with this.

Sometimes it can be very stressful driving a bus especially when you had idiots acting up. (Sadly I can think of a case involving a double decker going off the road near Cowbridge a few years ago which caused one schooboy to loose his life. That inccident was caused by one student grabbing the steering wheel)

Some councils in Wales have banned the use of double deckers on school services which they contract out, Neath & Port Talbot council being an example. Of course this has not been cheap as some councils have found out.

The driver should apoligise to your brother or at least someone from the company should

 

[notadriver]

Driving a bus can be very stressful. But why are the wages still so low ? Only recently a company was advertising for coach drivers and offering 7.50 an hour.

 

[jon0844]

Because almost anyone can do it? And as such, bus operators can pay whatever they like and if people don't like it - they can leave?

 

[pompeyfan]

£7.50 an hour...? I'm guessing this is in a less well off part of the country. I'm a PCV driver in the south central area for one of the big four and am on £10.50 an hour so I find it hard to see how someone can be on so little unless its for a small independent in a valley somewhere.

Also after reading most of the post I was unimpressed with the lack of knowledge being thrown about by people who are uneducated in the industry. Also just to confirm new drivers (such as myself) do have to take a vocal and written test to gain our CPC cards.

 

[notadriver]

In fairness bus drivers have a better hourly rate than coach drivers but it isn't really fair as coach drivers need more driving skills than bus drivers do

 

[pompeyfan]

I suppose it must be hard work sitting in the inside lane of a motorway all day, I can see where those better skills go to good use

 

[notadriver]

That's the sort of comeback I'd expect from a bus driver

 

[Shrimper]

In fairness bus drivers have a better hourly rate than coach drivers but it isn't really fair as coach drivers need more driving skills than bus drivers do

I work for a company which runs both. Bus drivers do get paid more per hour; however our coach drivers get more guaranteed hours per month and may also make money from tips on some private hires; plus get per diems on overnights.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I need to cool down now

With respect, I agree. This guy has the worst possible turn he could have. The conditions you describe are

A) Schoolchildren being obnoxious
B) The vehicle his company has provided appears to be faulty (possibly undermaintained, we don't know)

The guy is trying to get the job done under unbearable pressure, by the sound of it. I'm sure you think you're doing the right thing, but he's doing a b*tch of a job and trying to get it done as best he can. You want to put him out of work? Do you have any concept of how damaging that would be to him and his family? I feel sorry that he has to drive a mobile zoo twice a day, and then you come along with a self-righteous vendetta and try to put him out of work. Honestly, if what you've descrived is a true account, its not overly professional but I would say it'd be hard not to lose my rag under those circumstances. We haven't heard his side of the story, but I bet if we did most drivers on here (bus or train) would sympathise.

As I say, all due respect, but I think while your experience seems to have been unpleasant, you should exercise some restraint. Complain about the state of the vehicle if you like, but not the driver in such a personal way.

 

[Deerfold]

With respect, I agree. This guy has the worst possible turn he could have. The conditions you describe are

A) Schoolchildren being obnoxious
B) The vehicle his company has provided appears to be faulty (possibly undermaintained, we don't know)

The guy is trying to get the job done under unbearable pressure, by the sound of it. I'm sure you think you're doing the right thing, but he's doing a b*tch of a job and trying to get it done as best he can. You want to put him out of work? Do you have any concept of how damaging that would be to him and his family? I feel sorry that he has to drive a mobile zoo twice a day, and then you come along with a self-righteous vendetta and try to put him out of work. Honestly, if what you've descrived is a true account, its not overly professional but I would say it'd be hard not to lose my rag under those circumstances. We haven't heard his side of the story, but I bet if we did most drivers on here (bus or train) would sympathise.

As I say, all due respect, but I think while your experience seems to have been unpleasant, you should exercise some restraint. Complain about the state of the vehicle if you like, but not the driver in such a personal way.

It sounds like he has a very difficult job. But if it's true he's shouting at a child who was not involved in the disturbance to the extent he's made the child cry then that is unacceptable.

Also, it may seem harsh, but it's the bus driver's responsibility not to take out a defective bus. Some bus companies will dismiss a driver for taking out a defective bus.

 

[Kilted_Scot]

It sounds like he has a very difficult job. But if it's true he's shouting at a child who was not involved in the disturbance to the extent he's made the child cry then that is unacceptable.

Also, it may seem harsh, but it's the bus driver's responsibility not to take out a defective bus. Some bus companies will dismiss a driver for taking out a defective bus.

Yes but perhaps he never took it out? If its a changeover one does not have the time to do a full safety check which has already been done before the bus left for its first service. I think the people you should be complaining about are the idiots that caused it all, not the driver.

 

[quarella]

ATWALEX101 Does your school/Local Council/Bus operator have a code of conduct for school transport? I have had a look at a few and while some mentioned the withdrawal of transport for poor behaviour I did like the one that included this line:-

Students Remember that they have a collective responsibility to stop bad behaviour.

Have you made the school aware of whose behaviour led to this incident? It is regrettable your brother was blamed but trying to identify someone on a bus where the passengers are in school uniform via a periscope whilst driving is a challenge.

 

[transmanche]

Routemasters that were expected to go on fast roads (not so many Motorways back then...) in service had doors fitted -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/2003-m07-d20_(18reduced)_-_Alton_Bus_Rally.jpg

Well, Routemasters built for use on limited-stop Green Line routes (RMC & RCL types) had rear doors, but this was probably more for passenger comfort and to prevent boarding/alighting between stops.

 

[christopher]

You also had the RMA type;


London Transport . RMA1 KGJ621D . Leighton Buzzard Bus Rally August-2007 by AndrewHA's, on Flickr

 

[transmanche]

You also had the RMA type;

Which were built for BEA (and lasted until BA days) doing a specific job - shuttling between Heathrow and Kensington (West London Air Terminal)... complete with luggage trailers. LT acquired them when BA no longer needed them - and used them mainly as staff buses.

Here's a 'more accurate' photo of their original use...

Image source: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/2819741/

 

[ATW Alex 101]

With respect, I agree. This guy has the worst possible turn he could have. The conditions you describe are

A) Schoolchildren being obnoxious
B) The vehicle his company has provided appears to be faulty (possibly undermaintained, we don't know)

The guy is trying to get the job done under unbearable pressure, by the sound of it. I'm sure you think you're doing the right thing, but he's doing a b*tch of a job and trying to get it done as best he can. You want to put him out of work? Do you have any concept of how damaging that would be to him and his family? I feel sorry that he has to drive a mobile zoo twice a day, and then you come along with a self-righteous vendetta and try to put him out of work. Honestly, if what you've descrived is a true account, its not overly professional but I would say it'd be hard not to lose my rag under those circumstances. We haven't heard his side of the story, but I bet if we did most drivers on here (bus or train) would sympathise.

As I say, all due respect, but I think while your experience seems to have been unpleasant, you should exercise some restraint. Complain about the state of the vehicle if you like, but not the driver in such a personal way.

Aye, a very constructive criticism. I can understand what you say, driving a bus full of kids can be a challenge, it's more the fact that he picked my brother out of the many kids upstairs which it could have been. The periscope to see upstairs has been taken off or broken so he couldn't have seen anyway.

In hindsight, maybe getting him fired is possibly a bit OTT, but I expect a reprimand or a talking to to happen to him. To be honest, I think the way he drives (answering phones, sorts money into change bags, not generally concentrating) and the state of the bus is more of an issue. The safety of all the students on-board is more important and is the top priority. The bus in a lot of peoples view, is not in a sufficient state for travel at the moment and I have advised that some maintenance is required and have pointed out a few things in my letter. The driver is more than aware of these issues and does nothing to sort them (see the opening post, the doors wouldn't shut so he continued down the motorway).

For all the other comments, thanks, I agree with them all. I do appreciate the challenges driving a school bus has, but as I say, it's about the incident where my brother was picked on from something he wasn't involved in as well as the poor state of the bus and the way it's driven.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Aye, a very constructive criticism. I can understand what you say, driving a bus full of kids can be a challenge, it's more the fact that he picked my brother out of the many kids upstairs which it could have been. The periscope to see upstairs has been taken off or broken so he couldn't have seen anyway.

In hindsight, maybe getting him fired is possibly a bit OTT, but I expect a reprimand or a talking to to happen to him. To be honest, I think the way he drives (answering phones, sorts money into change bags, not generally concentrating) and the state of the bus is more of an issue. The safety of all the students on-board is more important and is the top priority. The bus in a lot of peoples view, is not in a sufficient state for travel at the moment and I have advised that some maintenance is required and have pointed out a few things in my letter. The driver is more than aware of these issues and does nothing to sort them (see the opening post, the doors wouldn't shut so he continued down the motorway).

For all the other comments, thanks, I agree with them all. I do appreciate the challenges driving a school bus has, but as I say, it's about the incident where my brother was picked on from something he wasn't involved in as well as the poor state of the bus and the way it's driven.

I didn't mind to sound harsh, and I think lots of what you describe is very unprofessional certainly, and if it is systematic then your conscience should be clear in voicing your concerns.

 

[BestWestern]

In fairness bus drivers have a better hourly rate than coach drivers but it isn't really fair as coach drivers need more driving skills than bus drivers do

I'm not entirely convinced by that

Technically of course, they both require the same skills to pass their tests, but on a daily basis an urban bus driver can face some pretty challenging road conditions, mostly caused by poor driving or bad traffic management. Urban stage carriage work is also undoubtedly more stressful than taking a load of OAP's on an afternoon drive! Though a coach driver engaged on foreign touring work would obviously need some additional talents.

I was always told that coach drivers got less due to the tips, but I'd guess they can be few and far between these days?!