Welsh Highland

[Pumbaa]

I'm taking a couple of days out soon to visit the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland (the WHR, not the WHHR)! Could anyone answer the following?:

- What side is best to sit on to get the best views of Aberglaslyn?
- Do the carriages have either droplights, some compartments, or are there semi-open carriages in the trains? How common are they?

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Signalmans Eye]

went WHR last Monday,travelling from Porthmadog lefthand side in direction of travel for viewing Aberglaslyn pass

 

[steevp]

When we did it last summer, there were some semi open carriages. Lovely trip - really enjoyed it

 

[Chris125]

Every train has a semi-open, though the saloons all have opening windows. The carriage set will also have either a Pullman or Observation carriage, which can be enjoyed for a small extra charge. Enjoy the trip, the WHR is fantastic though if the weather is nice i recommend breaking the (long) journey along the way if you can - Beddgelert is fantastic for this.

Chris

 

[eMeS]

I enjoyed my trip on the WHR last October, and captured some reasonable video. Quite a lot of what I captured, was through the windows, with the inevitable reflections - not too bad in my case. The line twists and turns, so being able to move quickly from one side to the other is useful. Travel away from Bank Holidays.

The guard invited me to use the openable window near his base.

The most useful thing I found (for video quality) was to have the exposure control under Manual Control, so that as you passed by a hedge, or large tree covered in leaves, the exposure didn't go ramping up under Auto control. How easy this is, depends on your camcorder.

 

[Pumbaa]

Thanks all, much obliged.

 

[507 001]

Each carriage has opening drop lights at seat, the carriage door windows don't open, so if your wanting to photograph the views you would be better either in an open coach. However one of the 2 sets has a spare guards can which has a number of drop lights that you can stand next to.

The views are best on the right hand side of the train (if travelling UP from Caernarfon), and that's not just for the aberglaslyn (the bit through betws garmon and Salem is nice on the LHS), the coaches all have excellent visibility though and it's quite easy to see the view on either side of the train.

Just out of interest when are you planning in going? I may well be your guard!

Oh and apparently the lamb burger is pretty good!

 

[Teaboy1]

Have a good look on YouTube, that way you can see what works best and what not to do! Not many videos with manual exposure control although I have yet to try mine out. Sit about 3 carriages from front, then you get good shots looking forwards, if at very back the curves are so tight you will loose sight of engine due to bankings, bushes etc. Best bit IMHO is the blast up through cutting into Beggelert, so wet n slippy but great to hear a Garrett at full-chat.
Good luck you luck chap!! No Garrettts in Darwin

 

[davetheguard]

Every train has a semi-open, though the saloons all have opening windows. The carriage set will also have either a Pullman or Observation carriage, which can be enjoyed for a small extra charge. Enjoy the trip, the WHR is fantastic though if the weather is nice i recommend breaking the (long) journey along the way if you can - Beddgelert is fantastic for this.

Chris

The Missis & I travelled from Porthamdog to Caernarfon on the 09.35 a couple of weeks ago; it is a superb trip. But it is long - it was worth paying the £10 extra to travel in the Pullman car one way.

The WHR's timetable on the day we were there gave a choice at Caernarfon of: a) come back almost straight away; or b) have four or five hours there.

Neither were quite what we wanted, as we had been around the castle before, and we fancied a nice pub lunch. So we spent just over two hours looking around the town and eating in a splendid Good Beer Guide listed pub with very good food (the Black Boy), and then took the local bus at 14.25 to Beddgelert. This starts off on a more inland, and higher up route than the railway, but then later you get good views from the bus of the railway track from Rhyd Ddu onwards. We then had two hours in Beddgelert to explore this attractive village and walk out to the Aberglaslyn Pass, before getting the last train back to Porthmadog.

 

[the sniper]

Service frequency was a big talking point when the timetable was drawn up for the Beddgelert/Porthmadog extension. The decision was taken to have longer trains over more frequent trains, which is particularly inconvenient for the customers that they get at the Caenarfon end. Personally I prefer the longer trains though.

 

[507 001]

Service frequency was a big talking point when the timetable was drawn up for the Beddgelert/Porthmadog extension. The decision was taken to have longer trains over more frequent trains, which is particularly inconvenient for the customers that they get at the Caenarfon end. Personally I prefer the longer trains though.

The main reason for that decision was a distinct lack of carriages available for more frequent services, then there's the lack of motive power available too, we're like the national network in miniature!

Keeping two garratts in service is no mean feat, keeping 3 or even 4 would be nigh on impossible. That's why a lot of the loco crews are so determined to get the kalahari in service, they can quite easily pull a full WHR set and use less fuel and need less maintenance in the process. The garratts only really make sense on peak season trains

 

[steamybrian]

I'm taking a couple of days out soon to visit the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland (the WHR, not the WHHR)! Could anyone answer the following?:

- What side is best to sit on to get the best views of Aberglaslyn?
- Do the carriages have either droplights, some compartments, or are there semi-open carriages in the trains? How common are they?

Thanks in advance for any help

When the train is the platform at Porthmadog get in the train and sit on the offside of the train (furthest from the platform) facing the buffer stops because initially the train "reverses" out of the station. After the train reverses and the pilot loco is detached you are then facing forward on the left hand side on the best sides for the Aberglaslyn Pass.

 

[davetheguard]

Service frequency was a big talking point when the timetable was drawn up for the Beddgelert/Porthmadog extension. The decision was taken to have longer trains over more frequent trains, which is particularly inconvenient for the customers that they get at the Caenarfon end. Personally I prefer the longer trains though.

Presumably you also need to have long trains (which can carry more fare-paying passengers, and thus earn more money) to recoup the cost of fuel on what are big, heavy, locos.

Does anyone know if it is intended to run more frequent Welsh Highland trains once the new platform works on the Cob at Porthmadog are completed?

 

[507 001]

Presumably you also need to have long trains (which can carry more fare-paying passengers, and thus earn more money) to recoup the cost of fuel on what are big, heavy, locos.

Does anyone know if it is intended to run more frequent Welsh Highland trains once the new platform works on the Cob at Porthmadog are completed?

Its a delicate balancing act, the heavier the train the more people you need on it to pay for it. the problem is is that for various reasons, the Weather being one, passenger numbers can vary wildly, hence the long trains.
Most trains run at a profit, very few make a loss.

AFAIK at the moment there are no plans to make the service more frequent (services have actually been cut back this year, have a look at last years timetable and compare the amount of yellow and red days to this years!) per se for the reasons mentioned further up the thread, however I think we are in for a major timetable re-cast next year as guards are being asked to perform passenger counts on certain trains.
I would imagine certain less busy services might be moved to more busy times.

 

[Chris125]

...however I think we are in for a major timetable re-cast next year as guards are being asked to perform passenger counts on certain trains.

Isn't the WHR is getting it's own platform at Harbour next year? Presumably that will allow a lot more flexibility when it comes to the timetable.

Chris

 

[kylemore]

Would a supplementary service using cheap and cheerful diesel railcars on the busiest sections be possible?
Mainly for walkers and tourists wanting to get from A to B but keeping the full through steam service with Pullman cars and catering etc as the line's iconic heritage attraction?

 

[Chris125]

Would a supplementary service using cheap and cheerful diesel railcars on the busiest sections be possible?
Mainly for walkers and tourists wanting to get from A to B but keeping the full through steam service with Pullman cars and catering etc as the line's iconic heritage attraction?

They don't have any cheap and cheerful railcars to use, and even if they did i don't believe earlybird workings have proven terribly successful.

Chris

 

[kylemore]

They don't have any cheap and cheerful railcars to use, and even if they did i don't believe earlybird workings have proven terribly successful.

Chris

I didn't think they had, but if a business case can be made out I'm sure they could be acquired.
They could cheaply fill in the gaps pointed out by a previous poster and provide a useful service for a variety of passenger needs and embed the WHR more into the transport infrastructure of the region, thus going some way to answering the critics of the scheme.
Again just thinking outside the box, if the diesel railcar service between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog providing a local transport service attracts state support why in principle should a diesel railcar service between Caernarfon and Porthmadog providing a local transport service not also attract similar support?
Jim

 

[Chris125]

I didn't think they had, but if a business case can be made out I'm sure they could be acquired.

As you can probably imagine this kind of idea has been suggested many times over the years, the common consensus being that they have few benefits over loco-hauled sets whose locos and carriages can be used much more flexibly, indeed they can even be operated push-pull. The problem is the lack of demand.

Again just thinking outside the box, if the diesel railcar service between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog providing a local transport service attracts state support why in principle should a diesel railcar service between Caernarfon and Porthmadog providing a local transport service not also attract similar support?
Jim

The Conwy Valley Line has never closed and is far more competitive with road transport than the WHR, especially for those travelling between Porthmadog and Caernarfon who can use a far more direct trunk road in a fraction of the time. I can't see financial support for running a community service ever happening, it's just not viable and would be far more effective subsidising the local bus service.

Chris

 

[kylemore]

As you can probably imagine this kind of idea has been suggested many times over the years, the common consensus being that they have few benefits over loco-hauled sets whose locos and carriages can be used much more flexibly, indeed they can even be operated push-pull. The problem is the lack of demand.

Yes I'm sure this has been mulled over before - at least the line has been built, against the odds and a credit to all involved.
Nothing stands still and I'm sure the service pattern and level will evolve over time.
Maybe you're right about the railcars, I seem to remember vaguely there was a similar idea for a commuter railcar service on the IOM steam railway which came to nothing - or am I just imagining this?

 

[Pumbaa]

Their phase 5 documents indicate that they aren't ruling out the possibility of diesel hauled early services 'for the leisure market'. They seem pretty confident that there's no market for commuters etc.

 

[snowball]

Isn't the WHR is getting it's own platform at Harbour next year? Presumably that will allow a lot more flexibility when it comes to the timetable.

Yes, construction work has been going on for the last two winters. There are track diagrams on the web and lots of photos and videos of the work. Search for Cob widening.

 

[Greenback]

Their phase 5 documents indicate that they aren't ruling out the possibility of diesel hauled early services 'for the leisure market'. They seem pretty confident that there's no market for commuters etc.

I believe they are correct. The journey into both Porthmadog and Caernarfon is slow compared to the roads, and there is little enough commuter demand in most of the places served by the railway in any case.