More Virgin services Birmingham-Scotland

[pete_m911]

http://mediaroom.virgintrains.co.uk/2013/05/virgin-trains-boosts-scotland.html

Seems like they are freeing up Voyagers for deployment on the Shrewsbury/Blackpool route. And I presume this means they will be extending all '43 services from Euston??

Virgin Trains boosts Scotland-Birmingham services with December timetable

An overhaul of Virgin Trains’ timetable this December will deliver an extra 3,300 seats per day between Scotland and Birmingham and offer fresh competition to airlines operating on the route.

The planned reconfiguration of services will deliver the first frequent direct trains from Scotland to Birmingham Airport in six years. Twenty-four of the 28 Scottish services that currently start or terminate in Birmingham will be extended to London Euston, offering new direct rail services to Scotland from Coventry, Milton Keynes and Sandwell & Dudley. This will give holidaymakers better options for travelling to Birmingham, Glasgow and Edinburgh airports to get cheaper flights during Scottish or English school holidays.

The changes will see five-car diesel Super Voyager trains that connect Glasgow and Edinburgh to the UK’s second-biggest city largely replaced by either double Voyagers (10-cars) or nine- or 11-car electric Pendolinos. It represents an 80% increase in seating capacity compared to 2008, when the current Virgin High Frequency timetable was introduced. Some 12,967 seats will be available on weekdays, up from 9,656 today.

Scotland’s Transport Minister, Keith Brown, welcomed the increase in services, saying: “The Scottish Government is determined to deliver a rail network that brings together communities and cities, connecting people to jobs and developing social and economic opportunities for all in Scotland. Cross-border services will help support that ambition and we very much welcome the recognition by Virgin Trains of the increasing demands on services between Scotland and Birmingham and the additional capacity the extra 3,300 seats on these services every day will bring.”

(read more)

 

[Qwerty133]

And where are these pendolinos coming from? Is another route going to voyager operation?

 

[northwichcat]

And where are these pendolinos coming from? Is another route going to voyager operation?

I thought it was always the intention for a few 9 car Pendolinos to be cascaded on to Birmingham-Scotland services once the 11 car Pendolinos were running, which then would leave free up a few Voyagers for limited Blackpool and Shrewsbury services.

 

[swt_passenger]

The announcement doesn't suggest to me that a significant number of units will be 'freed up'. If they are effectively linking existing services, all they gain is the time today's units spend at BHM between services - does that amount to a whole unit or more per day? But then they mention that some 5 car Voyager services will become 10 car - the likelihood of there being a net surplus of Voyagers seems unlikely..

 

[northwichcat]

The announcement doesn't suggest to me that a significant number of units will be 'freed up'. If they are effectively linking existing services, all they gain is the time today's units spend at BHM between services - does that amount to a whole unit or more per day? But then they mention that some 5 car Voyager services will become 10 car - the likelihood of there being a net surplus of Voyagers seems unlikely..

The article also seems to suggest that all Scotland-Birmingham services are 5 car currently when there are already some doubled up Voyager diagrams.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe there has been slack in the 390 fleet since the new arrivals (154-157) came over the last couple of years, so this probably capitalises on that.

I'll be interested to see just how they work this. Southbound, it currently happens on 2 or 3 services Monday-Saturday, where it sits in Wolves from xx31-xx45 IIRC, and combines the two services between Wolves and Brum (normally the Brum service at xx32 followed by a Euston service at xx45). It normally means longer journey times to Birmingham (or a change at Wolves for a slightly shorter one but still longer journey than a direct xx32 departure). Northbound it's a Brum terminator that's extended (the MKC caller), not the Wolves one, which only means a 8 min layover at New St I think.

But I'll wait to see how they do it, I just hope they avoid the 13 min ~ wait at Wolves to combine the two.

 

[SkinnyDave]

What time saving could be made from Birmingham to Scotland route if some services just stopped at say Carlisle and Preston?
I would have thought they could really compete with air travel on this route

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Ah, hang on, the article says new journeys available to Milton Keynes, so are rejigging the timetable so that Keynes is on the Wolves service in lieu of Watford, which would also go some way to avoiding the long wait south?

 

[gordonthemoron]

The planned reconfiguration of services will deliver the first direct trains from Scotland to Birmingham Airport in six years. Twenty-four of the 28 Scottish services that currently start or terminate in Birmingham will be extended to London Euston, offering new direct rail services to Scotland from Coventry, Milton Keynes and Sandwell & Dudley.

Surely the existing 1/2 services a day from Euston to Edinburgh via Brum already stop at MK & Birmingham Airport? Don't Virgin know their own services? Or do they mean Glasgow rather than Scotland?

 

[SprinterMan]

Surely the existing 1/2 services a day from Euston to Edinburgh via Brum already stop at MK & Birmingham Airport? Don't Virgin know their own services? Or do they mean Glasgow rather than Scotland?

I think they mean regular service (this is the only meaning that isn't a lie :P ). Aside from the Edinburgh trains, there is still 1tpd in each direction GLC-BHI. They are trying to spin things a bit, but it will be nice to have a regular direct service back.

1S55 0943 London Euston to Glasgow Central
1M55 1200 Glasgow Central to London Euston

Adam

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought it was always the intention for a few 9 car Pendolinos to be cascaded on to Birmingham-Scotland services once the 11 car Pendolinos were running, which then would leave free up a few Voyagers for limited Blackpool and Shrewsbury services.

The ORR has still not pronounced on the Shrewsbury/Blackpool services so VT can't announce them.
Missing from the press release is any clue about the intended balance of 390/221 services, or any impact on existing Euston-Glasgow/Chester/Holyhead services.

 

[Pumbaa]

Ah, hang on, the article says new journeys available to Milton Keynes, so are rejigging the timetable so that Keynes is on the Wolves service in lieu of Watford, which would also go some way to avoiding the long wait south?

Can the ex-Scotland get to New St in time for the xx50 slot? Which would work for the MK call. I seem to remember the xx10 arrives from Wolves a good 5 mins before with a stop at S+D. I think that's a possibility, even if a possible performance hit.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Does this mean there will be more Pendolinos paying a visit to Edinburg regularly?

 

[Eagle]

It would seem so.

Also means that fewer VT services can use the western bay platforms (which aren't long enough for a 390/0 or 2×221) and more will be laying over in one of the through platforms. Not entirely sure if that will have implications for platforming at Waverley.

 

[The Planner]

Can the ex-Scotland get to New St in time for the xx50 slot? Which would work for the MK call. I seem to remember the xx10 arrives from Wolves a good 5 mins before with a stop at S+D. I think that's a possibility, even if a possible performance hit.

Glasgow arrives at xx.50 WTT, so you would need to find 3 minutes from somewhere to make it work.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Further, the article implies they will serve Sandwell & Dudley too (it's mentioned in the new journey opportunities alongside Keynes), which I'm guessing will make that 3 mins closer to 6 or 7?

 

[tractakid]

It appears that they have changed the wording to 'frequent' Scotland to Birmingham Airport (sic) services.

 

[route:oxford]

This will be handy...

Now, if I'm travelling from Oxford to Edinburgh/Glasgow when E-W link opens, Will I be quicker changing at MK or Birmingham New Street?

I've already worked out that once E-W opens, as long as the route from Oxford to Milton Keynes takes less than 1h23 minutes including interchange time, it'll be better to travel to Manchester by avoiding the direct route.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've already worked out that once E-W opens, as long as the route from Oxford to Milton Keynes takes less than 1h23 minutes including interchange time, it'll be better to travel to Manchester by avoiding the direct route.

Well inside your times, EWR are quoting 40 minutes for the Oxford to MK service in their FAQs:

http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/frequently-asked-questions/

 

[route:oxford]

Well inside your times, EWR are quoting 40 minutes for the Oxford to MK service in their FAQs:

http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/frequently-asked-questions/

So approximately 40m + connection + 55m from Oxford to MK & MK to Birmingham & beyond

vs

1h12m to Birmingham just in time to miss the xx:20 to Scotland so a 1 hour wait until the next one.

Forget changing at Birmingham then...

This is going to have a profound effect on the profitability of the XC franchise...

 

[WatcherZero]

The Scotsman seems to have simplifed the description (rightly or wrongly) as:
London-Edinburgh services increased from 1 per day to 6 per day.
Glasgow-London services increased by 6 from 15 to 21 per day.
Its done by joining diagrams to form through services not using additional stock.

I would imagine the downside of this plan is it makes the route a lot more vulnerable to disruptionsthough its coming not long after NR said that the maximum reliability they could feasibly get the East Coast to is 88% because of the slowness of diversionary routes despite ORRs target being 91%.

On the plus side for me this would double the frequency of direct services to London to 2tph though their only 8 minutes apart which is a bit dumb :P

 

[Eagle]

On the plus side for me this would double the frequency of direct services to London to 2tph though their only 8 minutes apart which is a bit dumb :P

Eight minutes apart at one end, but over an hour apart at the other.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It would seem so.

Also means that fewer VT services can use the western bay platforms (which aren't long enough for a 390/0 or 2×221) and more will be laying over in one of the through platforms. Not entirely sure if that will have implications for platforming at Waverley.

I thought a 390 could use P14-17 inclusive?
Most of VTs layovers arnt huge with a xx.21 arival and an xx.52 departure. It may even be that these are retimed to ensure the extra few mins needed at the west mids end although that largely depends on a path at Haymarket and through the gardens.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So approximately 40m + connection + 55m from Oxford to MK & MK to Birmingham & beyond

vs

1h12m to Birmingham just in time to miss the xx:20 to Scotland so a 1 hour wait until the next one.

Forget changing at Birmingham then...

This is going to have a profound effect on the profitability of the XC franchise...

Not sure about that - Scotland to West Mids on XC is only viable on a good advance and they are hard to find without multiple splits due to the busy nature of the too small stock from Newcastle and particularly after Leeds.
More over the business market iether flies on the almost airly Flybe services or goes Virgin. more over there will be more advances on VT now both in FC and Standard.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
may have just missed it in the article but when are we getting these?

 

[Eagle]

I thought a 390 could use P14-17 inclusive?

Didn't know that. Although VT only tend to use bays 12 and 13 as it involves crossing less of the station throat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

may have just missed it in the article but when are we getting these?

December timetable change.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Didn't know that. Although VT only tend to use bays 12 and 13 as it involves crossing less of the station throat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


December timetable change.

Great stuff! my all to regular trips towards Carlisle are for ever being blited by 185s and now its going to be a dubble whammy with more pendos and the first 1 or 2 350s hopefully out and about too!

 

[tbtc]

Presumably running just one Virgin service an hour from New Street to Wolverhampton is going to free up a unit?

Every little helps, and all that...

 

[michael769]

BBC Article

Virgin Trains has promised a major expansion in capacity in time for the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games.

It said trains will be lengthened to cope with a surge in demand already experienced by the operator - and an increase in visitor numbers next year.

The company won a two-year extension to its West Coast franchise after a plan to award it to FirstGroup was scrapped.

Virgin said demand on Glasgow to London services has increased by 144% in the past five years.

Virgin Trains Chief Operating Officer Chris Gibb said: "We're just making the trains longer. We're re-shuffling our train fleet around in December this year and having gone up to hourly on Glasgow-London from last December we've seen huge growth on our routes out of Scotland."

 

[TSR :D]

Does this mean there's more trains between Euston and Birmingham? If so, how does this happen seeing there's lack of capacity in the line between Birmingham and Coventry and possbibly to Euston as well.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Does this mean there's more trains between Euston and Birmingham? If so, how does this happen seeing there's lack of capacity in the line between Birmingham and Coventry and possbibly to Euston as well.

No, same number of trains between Euston & Birmingham. Fewer Virgin trains between Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does this mean there's more trains between Euston and Birmingham?

Not at all.

They are just linking existing services at New St, as pointed out earlier in this thread.