Nottingham 'Bus War'

[martinsh]

PB1086799/36 - DUNN MOTOR TRACTION LTD T/A YOUR BUS, HEANOR GATE INDUSTRIAL ESTATE, HEANOR GATE ROAD, HEANOR, DE75 7RJ
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Derby, Riverlights Bus Station
Finish Point: Beeston, Bus Station
Via:
Service Number: Y5
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 14-JUL-2013
Other Details: Daily.

For me the gap in the market is express services using (part of) the A52 to get to Derby but not going the whole way to Nottingham.

e.g. Stapeford - Sandiacre - S52 - Derby
Long Eaton / Sawley - Breaston - Borrowash - A52 - Derby

Would save all the trundling through Spondon & Chaddesden on Trent Barton

 

[WillPS]

Happy days. Possibly the biggest positive of this is it will hopefully free up much-needed space at both Derby and Viccy bus stations.

A variation to timetable could be as insignificant as a single weekly journey changing a single timing point by a single minute.

 

[Deerfold]

A variation to timetable could be as insignificant as a single weekly journey changing a single timing point by a single minute.

Assuming the service is registered as "high frequency" whilst it's running every 10 minutes then the times during which this is true can be changed without registering a change so long as the start and end times of this section do not change.

As they've given the full 56 days notice there's likely to be more major changes as changes of less than 10 minutes can have substantially less notice given.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Local PSV Service Registrations Nov 08 (PSV 353A).pdf

 

[WillPS]

Ahhah - thanks for the correction. On balance, it probably is a significant change all considered.

 

[34D]

Maybe just every 15 minutes instead of every 10?

 

[tbone]

Derbyshire County Council has confirmed that there will be a reduction in frequency.

 

[Deerfold]

Derbyshire County Council has confirmed that there will be a reduction in frequency.

Indeed- http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transp.../news_notices/bus_service_changes/default.asp

Also confirms the Y5 will be every 20 minutes (hourly evenings, half hourly Sundays), matching the indigo Derby - Long Eaton during the day.

 

[MCR247]

It looks to me like Trent Barton's extra skylinks from Nottingham - Long Eaton could do with a PVR of 3 instead of 2 as at the moment they are pretty useless as they are always very late, and as the normal skylink isn't late, everyone is just getting on that since it arrives first. For example right now, I'm on one that is ~20 minutes late, and so has 4 people on and is running directly behind the normal skylink which must be pretty rammed. I believe the other extra is also similarly late!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've heard a few rumours concerning Yourbus recently:
1) More Citaros are due
2) Citylink may have to be rebranded
3) Citylink will be cut back between peak hours

 

[radamfi]

How can a small company like Your Bus afford so many top quality new Citraros? The main groups don't buy, notably Stagecoach who buy mostly cheap E200/400 buses. Even Trent Barton have only bought a small number of Citaros.

 

[MCR247]

Honestly, I don't know. It is strange

 

[tbone]

The new timetables for Citylink and Y5 are on traveline.

Citylink will become every 20 minutes throughout the day. This is very very risky in my view, the frequency of a service of that nature is a big decider. There's also currently nothing seperating the cost of a weekly ticket on the two services, Trent's are currently on sale at £20.

The Y5 will run the same route as Indigo, running a few minutes before it.

I've heard that Nottingham City Council aren't happy with the citylink name being used as it is a name that's used on its Park and Ride services.

As for new citaros, I wouldn't be suprised to see the ones coming off citylink used. As for how they afford them, I have no idea! In the past year, they've put new buses on all of their East Midlands bus services except the Y36 which had new in 2011. I guess their very large portfolio of National Express works helps cashflow quite a lot.

 

[ARedFlyer]

I caught the Citylink to Derby early on Friday evening and I counted 14 people on it which is quite an increase on it's early days. Plus people getting on at the new stops along the way. Maybe they can make it work after all, despite the reduced frequency. £4.50 return must be having an effect too, big difference compared to £8!

Been some angry scenes at Airport recently with Skylinks consistently late, not running people through to Pegasus, people missing flights etc. They were using the A453 again last Friday and have confirmed duplicates running along A453 during the Download Festival. Not even sure if they are allowed to do this? Airport passenger numbers are well up on last year which is making some of the Skylink journeys stupidly packed, especially as the one that pointlessly goes through to Loughborough often gets stuck up there!

 

[CallySleeper]

It looks to me like Trent Barton's extra skylinks from Nottingham - Long Eaton could do with a PVR of 3 instead of 2 as at the moment they are pretty useless as they are always very late, and as the normal skylink isn't late, everyone is just getting on that since it arrives first. For example right now, I'm on one that is ~20 minutes late, and so has 4 people on and is running directly behind the normal skylink which must be pretty rammed. I believe the other extra is also similarly late!

Sounds like the beginnings of a big Lothian Buses problem which is bunching and delay snowballing. For the record, I was on a (standing room only) Nottingham skylink on Friday night and I report no problems re: route or timekeeping.

 

[MCR247]

There doesn't seem to be any problems on the normal traditional airport skylink, its just the Long Eaton extras that are doing very badly for reliability, therefore slowing down the traditional skylink and making it busier

 

[WillPS]

Wasn't the plan to rebrand that service Long Eaton Xprss, and give it some proper buses?

 

[MCR247]

Nottingham real time screens show them as Long Eaton xprss now I think, but that seems to be all that's changed

 

[tbone]

The service is currently running with two Man Plaxton Centros (when they're actually on the road) which are in a somewhat shoddy livery which basically consists of the Sheffield freebee livery they were in with TM Travel with a few vinyls applied over the top. They also have Urban 90 seats which really isn't trent barton's 'thing', but with no new buses on order I can't see what could replace them.

 

[tbtc]

The service is currently running with two Man Plaxton Centros (when they're actually on the road) which are in a somewhat shoddy livery which basically consists of the Sheffield freebee livery they were in with TM Travel with a few vinyls applied over the top

Have they still got the "bees" on the roof?

(a detail that they had in Sheffield that I only noticed once they were moved off the FreeBee service)

 

[pjnathanail]

The service is currently running with two Man Plaxton Centros (when they're actually on the road) which are in a somewhat shoddy livery which basically consists of the Sheffield freebee livery they were in with TM Travel with a few vinyls applied over the top. They also have Urban 90 seats which really isn't trent barton's 'thing', but with no new buses on order I can't see what could replace them.

I hope something replaces them soon
I had the "pleasure" of riding on one today

Ten minutes late, no wifi, very rattly over potholes and less than ten people onboard. I don't know why they're bothering, they are devaluing the trent barton brand

 

[MCR247]

At least yours was only ten minutes late! Although actually depending on how late in the day it was, it would surprise me if it was 70 late

 

[bb21]

At least yours was only ten minutes late! Although actually depending on how late in the day it was, it would surprise me if it was 70 late

If it is already 70 minutes late, surely it makes more sense to cancel the previous journey and run only 10 minutes late? They are not going to be able to make all that up.

 

[MCR247]

Yeah they'd probably do that in that situation. Although in my previous post i probably should've put that 40 minutes is more likely!

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Have they still got the "bees" on the roof?

(a detail that they had in Sheffield that I only noticed once they were moved off the FreeBee service)

Hadn't when I looked down on one yesterday while passing it on Queens Road.

 

[tbone]

Yourbus have now also registered a Y1 service between Heanor and Derby, presumably in competition with the H1 service. It's all getting a bit pathetic really.

 

[Deerfold]

Yourbus have now also registered a Y1 service between Heanor and Derby, presumably in competition with the H1 service. It's all getting a bit pathetic really.

It would be nice to see a bit of innovation.

 

[trentside]

It would be nice to see a bit of innovation.

Indeed, you think they'd take what happened to Premiere as a warning?

I never saw innovation as a strong skill with Dunn-Line, either.

 

[WillPS]

Yourbus have now also registered a Y1 service between Heanor and Derby, presumably in competition with the H1 service. It's all getting a bit pathetic really.

Why pathetic? The passengers are getting a choice, fares are likely to go down either way, and the existing service continues.

This is supposed to be what privatised bus services are all about - too bad it happens less than 1% of the time (and rarely lasts long).

 

[Jordeh]

Why pathetic? The passengers are getting a choice, fares are likely to go down either way, and the existing service continues.

This is supposed to be what privatised bus services are all about - too bad it happens less than 1% of the time (and rarely lasts long).

In most cases it's simply unsustainable, both businesses can end up running the same route as a loss for a short period of time (until one pulls out) and then they will be looking to recuperate costs elsewhere in the business so it's likely the customer won't really win in the long term.

The customer wins when there is innovation such as increased frequencies, new route possibilities or shorter journey times but Premiere and seemingly YourBus seem to rarely offer this.

 

[WillPS]

In most cases it's simply unsustainable, both businesses can end up running the same route as a loss for a short period of time (until one pulls out) and then they will be looking to recuperate costs elsewhere in the business so it's likely the customer won't really win in the long term.

The customer wins when there is innovation such as increased frequencies, new route possibilities or shorter journey times but Premiere and seemingly YourBus seem to rarely offer this.

How can a competitor running a duplicate service lead to anything other than an increase in frequency, in the short term at the very least!?

Trent are a great operator and deserve the success they've enjoyed. They're not being replaced, and if customers want to they can choose to use another service.

Premiere did some great work creating useful connections out of what were previously skeleton services. The X9/Red 9 (formerly Arriva 99, now Kinch 9) and Red 7 (formerly the 7, a service neglected by Barton under Welglade ownership, now partly NCT 46/47) are two obvious examples.

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that a private company has the right to a service monopoly.

 

[ARedFlyer]

Anybody who doesn't want competition and more choice is either A) a TB employee (some quite obvious cases here I think! ) or B) A fanboy!

The public are loving the slick, smooth and classy Mercedes Citaros. They are really comfortable to ride on. Now compare this to TB's tacky and plastic "The Only Way Is Essex" busses and livery (which are breaking down at a ridiculous rate at the moment by the way) and you can see now why there is a real competitor.