Appearance Of The Guard / Train Manager On MML

[RichmondCommu]

G'day everyone,

Occasionally I will travel on the MML and for the whole journey the above will not put in an appearance. I'm curious to know whether this is standard MML policy where all the stations served are gated? All the necessary announcements are made but that's about it!

Regards,

Richmond Commuter!

 

[talltim]

They are all waiting for RJ to board

 

[RichmondCommu]

They are all waiting for RJ to board

Who's RJ when he's at home?

 

[trickyvegas]

Who's RJ when he's at home?

He's probably still RJ.

He's an extremely knowledgable forum member, who frequently gets picked on by RPIs who are out of their depth on fare rules.

 

[RichmondCommu]

He's probably still RJ.

He's an extremely knowledgable forum member, who frequently gets picked on by RPIs who are out of their depth on fare rules.

Oh ok. As I said I don't have a problem with this policy I'm just curious thats all.

 

[Yew]

Meridians are pretty long, and often have frequent stops so maybe they are busy with safety duties?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Meridians are pretty long, and often have frequent stops so maybe they are busy with safety duties?

After Derby (where I got on) we only stopped once and that was Leicester! I'm assuming that Leicester is gated?

 

[BestWestern]

Sounds a bit like textbook laziness to be honest, difficult to do anything other than speculate though.

 

[trentside]

Sounds a bit like textbook laziness to be honest, difficult to do anything other than speculate though.

Indeed - a lot of the time, I find the EMT onboard staff to be very pro-active when it comes to revenue duties, both on the MML and local services. I have also witnessed things similar to that seen by the OP.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Or maybe he had a faulty machine?

 

[dk1]

I am normally impressed with EMT on the ticket checking. The young lady guard on a recent Corby service was up & down constantly.

 

[the sniper]

They are all waiting for RJ to board

I was going to say, if he wants his ticket checked get on the train with RJ!

 

[Qwerty133]

I was going to say, if he wants his ticket checked get on the train with RJ!

the guard would be to busy dealing with RJ to check anyone else's tickets

 

[talltim]

I travel on EMT for about half my commuting (MML and Liverpool/Norwich) and get my ticket checked between Chesterfield and Sheffield most times. XC and Northern also seem to check on this portion of the journey too

 

[Starmill]

I have literally given up trying to come up with any sort of pattern for TOCs and routes and where and when the guard comes around. I really do think its literally up to the individual in question and can be based on almost any factor. I always try to think that its never laziness and nothing else but sometimes...


In my 2 experiences of EMT London routes TM was out and about the entire journey - and particular attention was paid to Railcards and seat reservations where I don't notice it much elsewhere.

I know its not the MML, but some EMT guards on the Lime St - Norwich service seem to do it in blocks after each major destination. I.e. they come out at Liverpool and work through (usually all four coaches), stopping to do the doors at S Pway, Widnes ect. but not going all the way back to see who got on. Then again after Manchester, then after Sheffield and so on.

 

[chuckles1066]

A genuine question given that some of the responses above seem to imply a lazy guard rather than anything else.

I get on at Patchway and travel to Cardiff (as I did a few weeks back).

In my case, a very pleasant, smiling guard appeared just after Severn Tunnel Junction, we handed over £22-ish and got our tickets.

What if he hadn't appeared?

Cardiff Central has barriers.......so I wander upto one of the staff and say "we haven't got tickets, who do we pay and how do I get out of the station?"

I say the guard never appeared, rail staff say I've travelled without a ticket....penalty fare time?

 

[pinguini]

I have literally given up trying to come up with any sort of pattern for TOCs and routes and where and when the guard comes around. I really do think its literally up to the individual in question and can be based on almost any factor. I always try to think that its never laziness and nothing else but sometimes...

But surely that is how revenue duties should be conducted? Random and unpredictable?

 

[met331]

you have to take into account batterylife in advantix plus busyness of train, the guard could be at the backend of a 10 hour day. the biggest consideration is how long will the guard take to complete the ticket checks as the chances of selling a ticket worth more than the £60 a minute delay that the guard can incur by not opening and closing the doors quickly.
the report filling just isnt worth it

 

[Windcutter]

After Derby (where I got on) we only stopped once and that was Leicester! I'm assuming that Leicester is gated?

Yes Leicester station is gated, its about time they got started on the track upgrade from Syston to Wigston, had to run wrong line the other day sandwiched between to freight trains.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Yes Leicester station is gated, its about time they got started on the track upgrade from Syston to Wigston, had to run wrong line the other day sandwiched between to freight trains.

How long have NR got before 125 mph running starts? I'm pretty sure that I read everything was due to be finished in December?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

you have to take into account batterylife in advantix plus busyness of train, the guard could be at the backend of a 10 hour day. the biggest consideration is how long will the guard take to complete the ticket checks as the chances of selling a ticket worth more than the £60 a minute delay that the guard can incur by not opening and closing the doors quickly.
the report filling just isnt worth it

I concur with everything that you've listed but in my case between Derby and St Pancras there was only one stop and that was Leicester! I'm not prepared to give the time of travel as I've no desire to get anyone into trouble. Just curious thats all.

 

[edwin_m]

How long have NR got before 125 mph running starts? I'm pretty sure that I read everything was due to be finished in December?

Isn't Syston to Wigston referring to four-tracking for freight? This is on a longer timescale than 125mph running.

 

[talltim]

A genuine question given that some of the responses above seem to imply a lazy guard rather than anything else.

I get on at Patchway and travel to Cardiff (as I did a few weeks back).

In my case, a very pleasant, smiling guard appeared just after Severn Tunnel Junction, we handed over £22-ish and got our tickets.

What if he hadn't appeared?

Cardiff Central has barriers.......so I wander upto one of the staff and say "we haven't got tickets, who do we pay and how do I get out of the station?"

I say the guard never appeared, rail staff say I've travelled without a ticket....penalty fare time?

If there is opportunity to buy tickets at Patchway, you are in trouble, if not then they should direct you to someone who can sell you the full range of tickets.

 

[BestWestern]

Or maybe he had a faulty machine?

That isn't an absolute excuse not to go through and do any checking though?!

 

[chuckles1066]

If there is opportunity to buy tickets at Patchway, you are in trouble, if not then they should direct you to someone who can sell you the full range of tickets.

Patchway has nothing in the way of ticket-dispensing machines (they'd be vandalised within 30 minutes of being installed).

But I could have got on at Filton AbbeyWood (where there is a ticket machine) and simply told the staff at Cardiff that I got on at Patchway?

 

[AlexS]

There's a few reasons it could be on the 'MML' services.

The guard could be lazy.

Or, they take their breaks on trains. Or they're short staffed in First Class and required to help with the First Class service. Or their machine is dead. I have no idea which it would be in this case, but if the train is calling entirely at barried stations various other duties could take precedence over revenue protection.

 

[BestWestern]

There's a few reasons it could be on the 'MML' services.

The guard could be lazy.

Or, they take their breaks on trains. Or they're short staffed in First Class and required to help with the First Class service. Or their machine is dead. I have no idea which it would be in this case, but if the train is calling entirely at barried stations various other duties could take precedence over revenue protection.

Again, a dead Avantix is still not an excuse never to venture out of the van/buffet/back cab! A primary part of the Guard's role is to patrol his train, irrespective of doing tickets. Very few excuses for just not appearing at all.

 

[AlexS]

Indeed not, however part of the EMT/MML train manager role does include the First Class service - if (bearing in mind particularly the current industrial action issues) the train is short staffed, the train manager is required to provide the first class service where possible, or assist with this along with their safety critical duties.

Not to excuse it necessarily, but as I say, there are various parts of the contracts of employment of this particular grade of staff with this company which may lead you not to see them in parts of the train at times.

 

[yorkie]

But I could have got on at Filton AbbeyWood (where there is a ticket machine) and simply told the staff at Cardiff that I got on at Patchway?

You could, yes. And then you could post here and tell us of your terrible mistake...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I have literally given up trying to come up with any sort of pattern for TOCs and routes and where and when the guard comes around. I really do think its literally up to the individual in question and can be based on almost any factor. I always try to think that its never laziness and nothing else but sometimes...

Lack of any pattern is arguably a good thing. If there was a pattern, regular passengers who wanted to fare-dodge would learn it, and then be more likely to get away with not paying and not being checked.

 

[reb0118]

I have always thought that patrolling the train & carrying out a revenue check are separate, but not mutually exclusive, things.

My company is very proactive in ensuring that revenue checks are completed (at least on services with a guard ~ I have heard some anecdotal evidence that this is not always so on the DOO services).

Depending on train length or type, passenger loading, equipment reliability, &c., &c.,.......... it may be impossible to complete a full revenue check but at the very least a full train length patrol should be carried out.

Good practice I have witnessed on the continent is e.g. on the French long distance services where the guard starts at the back and patrols the full train & then returns with a full revenue check (unlocking the toilets as he does so).

Some guards start their revenue check too soon and can get bogged down thereby being unable to fully patrol their train.