Ashton-under-Lyne railway station....likely future rail services ?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

When (and if) this station becomes similar to Altrincham Interchange, with heavy-rail services, Manchester Metrolink services and buses in the new bus station in the complex, may I enquire as to what likely heavy rail services will be stopping there when the Ordsall Chord is completed and the new rail service patterns have been established.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

In all probability, given the Huddersfields are likely to go to Piccadilly because of rerouted TPE services, Ashton will get no more than the current service. I don't believe (though I am happy to be corrected) that Eccles, Altrincham or Rochdale have had an increase in service because Metrolink served the towns.

 

[YorkshireBear]

In all probability, given the Huddersfields are likely to go to Piccadilly because of rerouted TPE services, Ashton will get no more than the current service. I don't believe (though I am happy to be corrected) that Eccles, Altrincham or Rochdale have had an increase in service because Metrolink served the towns.

Metrolink and two stoppers per hour to Stalybridge and Victoria (Liverpool or elsewhere afterwards) Probably good enough

 

[mister-sparky]

Nothing is going to change...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the SSC website some time ago, someone had posted a picture of the station name sign at Ashton-under-Lyne railway station affixed to the outside wall of a building on the platform with the word "under" bearing an upper-case "U" and not the correct lower case letter.

Pedantry always affects me on a Friday morning....

 

[ANorthernGuard]

On the SSC website some time ago, someone had posted a picture of the station name sign at Ashton-under-Lyne railway station affixed to the outside wall of a building on the platform with the word "under" bearing an upper-case "U" and not the correct lower case letter.

Pedanticity always affects me on a Friday morning....

I think Ashton has a very good service at present and I can't see any real need for any more. Ashton is an average size town. and Tameside has a heck of a lot of stations in it. Guide Bridge, Hattersley, Godley, Flowery Field, Newton, Guide Bridge fairfield, Stalybridge, Denton and of course Ashton. Plus Tameside is connected to the Metrolink. (which obviously started the thread off).

 

[northwichcat]

In all probability, given the Huddersfields are likely to go to Piccadilly because of rerouted TPE services

The Network Rail plans are for the Huddersfield-Victoria stopper to be dropped when Ordsall Chord opens. A half-hourly semi-fast from Piccadilly to Leeds (and possibly beyond to Selby/Hull) would each stop at 2 out of Mossley, Greenfield, Slaithwaite and Marsden, as well as Stalybridge and Huddersfield. (The TPE services via Victoria are not set to call at Stalybridge.)

Post-North TPE electrification Network Rail say a path could be made available for a Huddersfield-Piccadilly stopper if there is a business case for it alongside the 6tph on North TPE.

Prior to the TPE electrification announcement there were plans to put in overtaking loops to allow a TPE service to overtake a stopper but these were dropped as Network Rail say the won't provide good value for money now that electrification is being undertaken.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Network Rail plans are for the Huddersfield-Victoria stopper to be dropped when Ordsall Chord opens. A half-hourly semi-fast from Piccadilly to Leeds (and possibly beyond to Selby/Hull) would each stop at 2 out of Mossley, Greenfield, Slaithwaite and Marsden, as well as Stalybridge and Huddersfield. (The TPE services via Victoria are not set to call at Stalybridge.)

Post-North TPE electrification Network Rail say a path could be made available for a Huddersfield to Piccadilly stopper if there is a business case for it alongside the 6tph on North TPE.

Neither the Piccadilly to Leeds service in your first paragraph nor the Huddersfield to Piccadilly service in your second paragraph would be calling at Ashton-under-Lyne railway station, which is the raison d'etre for this particular thread.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think Ashton has a very good service at present

I most certainly understand your expressed sentiments with regard to the existing service patterns, but is the planned future service patterns to Ashton-under-Lyne railway station that are of concern to me.

 

[AndyHudds]

The Network Rail plans are for the Huddersfield-Victoria stopper to be dropped when Ordsall Chord opens. A half-hourly semi-fast from Piccadilly to Leeds (and possibly beyond to Selby/Hull) would each stop at 2 out of Mossley, Greenfield, Slaithwaite and Marsden, as well as Stalybridge and Huddersfield. (The TPE services via Victoria are not set to call at Stalybridge.)

Post-North TPE electrification Network Rail say a path could be made available for a Huddersfield-Piccadilly stopper if there is a business case for it alongside the 6tph on North TPE.

Prior to the TPE electrification announcement there were plans to put in overtaking loops to allow a TPE service to overtake a stopper but these were dropped as Network Rail say the won't provide good value for money now that electrification is being undertaken.

It could be extended to Wakefield, not sure why Wakefield has never had a service to Manchester either through the Calder Valley or Huddersfield. It would also give Huddersfield another service per hour to Wakey.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It could be extended to Wakefield, not sure why Wakefield has never had a service to Manchester either through the Calder Valley or Huddersfield. It would also give Huddersfield another service per hour to Wakey.

I am sure that there once were some services from Manchester Victoria to the Wakefield area. Perhaps some forum member could say it was when they last ran.

 

[AndyHudds]

Maybe I should have said in my lifetime!! But I do think it would be a viable service.

 

[Welshman]

Maybe I should have said in my lifetime!! But I do think it would be a viable service.

Then you must be a young man!

I'm sure that in the 1990's, the Manchester Victoria-Huddersfield stopping service via Marsden was linked with the Huddersfield-Wakefield Kirkgate & Westgate service, providing a through Manchester-Wakefield service, even if it did stop at every station.

And up until 1970, there were through services from Manchester Victoria to Wakefield Kirkgate via the Calder Valley. Most were extended from Wakefield to York via Castleford, with one or two starting back at Liverpool Exchange.

These services were turned-over to dmus in 1962 [using what became known as the "Calder Valley" Cl.110 3-car sets].

The death-knell for these services was the closure of Leeds Central station in 1967, and the diversion of Calder Valley services into Leeds City, allowing through journeys to York via Leeds, and the services via Wakefield to be curtailed, along with the closure of Horbury & Ossett and Brighouse stations.

However, with the re-opening of Brighouse station in 2000, there could be a case for restoring a Manchester Victoria-Calder Valley-Wakefield service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm fairly certain the current Manchester Vic-Huddersfield stopper ran through to Wakefield Westgate until about 2006.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm fairly certain the current Manchester Vic-Huddersfield stopper ran through to Wakefield Westgate until about 2006.

It was a FNW Wakefield - Victoria service in the summer of 2004 but the Wakefield-Huddersfield section went to ATN by the following year and got tagged on to the Leeds-Huddersfield via Bradford service.

AndyHudds must be primary school age if he was born after they finished. I wonder if he remembers the Huddersfield-Lincoln services or the Liverpool-Sunderland via Huddersfield which ended around the same time or the short-lived Manchester-Huddersfield-Bridlington services.

 

[Welshman]

Thank you to jcollins for correcting me re the date of the commencement of the Manchester-Huddersfield-Wakefield services.

What is it they say about growing older - you can remember the distant past [ie 1960s-70s] very clearly, but the more recent past [ie 2000s] is just a blurr?

 

[Silv1983]

On the SSC website some time ago, someone had posted a picture of the station name sign at Ashton-under-Lyne railway station affixed to the outside wall of a building on the platform with the word "under" bearing an upper-case "U" and not the correct lower case letter.

Pedanticity always affects me on a Friday morning....

Not pedantic enough to spot your typo in only the second word of your original post
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In all probability, given the Huddersfields are likely to go to Piccadilly because of rerouted TPE services, Ashton will get no more than the current service. I don't believe (though I am happy to be corrected) that Eccles, Altrincham or Rochdale have had an increase in service because Metrolink served the towns.

Im sure one of the goals of the Northern hub was to relieve congestion at Piccadilly by having all West/East services call at Vic - and leave all the North/South services as they are at Picc. If that's the case the all services calling at Huddersfield will do the opposite and go to Vic.
At least that's how I interpretted the scheme :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

Thank you to jcollins for correcting me re the date of the commencement of the Manchester-Huddersfield-Wakefield services.

What is it they say about growing older - you can remember the distant past [ie 1960s-70s] very clearly, but the more recent past [ie 2000s] is just a blurr?

? I didn't say what date Wakefield-Victoria services commenced but what date they finished.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not pedantic enough to spot your typo in only the second word of your original post

Pedantry and infallibility are somewhat different afflictions. Thank you for your visual skills. That matter is now corrected...

"Blessed are the spellcheckers, for they shall give forth lexicological truth"

 

[northwichcat]

Im sure one of the goals of the Northern hub was to relieve congestion at Piccadilly by having all West/East services call at Vic - and leave all the North/South services as they are at Picc. If that's the case the all services calling at Huddersfield will do the opposite and go to Vic.
At least that's how I interpretted the scheme :roll:

Not sure where you've got that idea from as it doesn't seem consistent with what DfT have put in the HLOS

Illustrative Option schemes in CP5 HLOS

The HLOS covers these infrastructure requirements in three different ways:
It specifies major strategic schemes such as the provision of the Northern Hub capacity through central Manchester. The industry is expected to design and deliver these schemes by 2019 but is able to define the detailed scope of the scheme and the timing of delivery, so as to maximise efficiency and reduce costs.
.....
Inclusion of a train service or an infrastructure scheme in the Department’s illustrative options does not guarantee it will be delivered; that only happens if the scheme is named in the HLOS.

Manchester
Victoria (Transpennine)
Half-hourly fast Liverpool – (Chat Moss) – Victoria – Leeds – York – Newcastle electric service.
Half hourly fast Manchester Airport – Piccadilly (Ordsall Chord) – Victoria – Leeds – York electric service.

Victoria (Northern)
Leeds via Bradford / Dewsbury and Rochdale to Victoria.
Local service to Huddersfield transferred to Piccadilly.
Services from Liverpool, Southport, Wigan, Blackburn and Clitheroe extended to Stalybridge or Rochdale and revised to match current patterns of demand.
Blackburn/Accrington via Todmorden diesel services introduced.
Peak train lengthening with revised diesel and electric train formations;
Wigan – Kirby becomes self-contained diesel service.

Piccadilly (Transpennine)
Half hourly fast Manchester Airport – Piccadilly (Ordsall Chord) – Victoria – Leeds – York electric service.
Hourly semi-fast Piccadilly – Leeds – Selby electric service.
Hourly semi-fast Piccadilly – Leeds – Selby – Hull diesel service.
Hourly fast Piccadilly - Wigan – Preston – Carlisle – Scotland electric service.
Hourly Piccadilly – Blackpool North electric service.

Piccadilly (Northern)
Buxton – Piccadilly service linked across Manchester with Liverpool – Warrington – Manchester service (assumes Castlefield capacity enhancement).
Liverpool – Earlestown – Piccadilly local service electrified, extended to Manchester Airport and frequency increase to half-hourly.
Local service to Huddersfield (replaces service from Victoria).
Local services to Glossop/Hadfield, Marple (both routes), Hope Valley, Stoke, Crewe, Chester via Altrincham, Bolton and Preston revised to match current patterns of demand.
Services from Manchester Airport revised to match current patterns of demand

Piccadilly (West Coast)
Full use of 11-car Pendolino trains. Deployment of peak capacity as determined by new franchise.

Piccadilly (others)
Liverpool via Warrington semi-fast services continue to Sheffield.
North Wales service transfers to Victoria (and beyond); South Wales service unchanged.
Cross Country services unchanged

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In all probability, given the Huddersfields are likely to go to Piccadilly because of rerouted TPE services, Ashton will get no more than the current service. I don't believe (though I am happy to be corrected) that Eccles, Altrincham or Rochdale have had an increase in service because Metrolink served the towns.

An interesting observation. Given that Ashton-under-Lyne heavy rail station will be exterior to future heavy-rail service improvements, should the idea of relocating the town centre bus station for yet another time to a site nearer the railway station now seen to be a total waste of time and taxpayers money ?

 

[JohnB57]

Pedanticity and infallibility are somewhat different afflictions. Thank you for your visual skills. That matter is now corrected...

Another one for you Paul. It's actually pedantry...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Another one for you Paul. It's actually pedantry...

You will note my comment that pedantry and infallibility are two somewhat different afflictions..

 

[Silv1983]

Reading the Network Rail publication: "What's happening in the North?"

One of the sections states:

'Ashton-under-Lyne and Stalybridge passengers could choose from more and quicker trains across the North to destinations such as Bolton, Chester, Leeds, Manchester, Southport, Warrington and Wigan.'

With the exception of the Leeds service mentioned - all of the above destinations will have to go via Victoria, or Victoria and Piccadilly via the Ordsall Chord (ie Chester and Warrington trains). Therefore there should be a notable increase in trains servicing AUL if the report is to be believed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting the two populations of both Ashton-under-Lyne and of Stalybridge:-
Ashton-under-Lyne........43,236
Stalybridge..................22,568
why is it seen preferable to site the major heavy rail station at Stalybridge ?

Look at the existing sizes of the two bus stations and the number of services that use both of these and you will find a truer population demographic clearly demonstrated.

 

[northwichcat]

Reading the Network Rail publication: "What's happening in the North?"

One of the sections states:

'Ashton-under-Lyne and Stalybridge passengers could choose from more and quicker trains across the North to destinations such as Bolton, Chester, Leeds, Manchester, Southport, Warrington and Wigan.'

With the exception of the Leeds service mentioned - all of the above destinations will have to go via Victoria, or Victoria and Piccadilly via the Ordsall Chord (ie Chester and Warrington trains). Therefore there should be a notable increase in trains servicing AUL if the report is to be believed.

You're reading an out-of-date document that was done before North TPE electrification was confirmed. The overtaking loops between Liverpool and Leeds that it mentions were dropped as was the idea of TPE services calling at Ashton, which was mooted at one time.

You're also assuming it means all those destinations would have be available from Ashton, it certainly doesn't. It means they hadn't decided where trains from Stalybridge would continue to, so they listed all possibilities being considered at the time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Noting the two populations of both Ashton-under-Lyne and of Stalybridge:-
Ashton-under-Lyne........43,236
Stalybridge..................22,568
why is it seen preferable to site the major heavy rail station at Stalybridge ?

Look at the existing sizes of the two bus stations and the number of services that use both of these and you will find a truer population demographic clearly demonstrated.

Obviously, currently TPE services can call at Stalybridge but can't call at Ashton. The TPE call at Stalybridge allows people from Ashton, Mossley, Greenfield, Slaithwaite and Marsden to make onward journeys without backtracking e.g. Marsden-Warrington.

Network Rail have decided the Victoria TPE services will be the fast headline services e.g. Newcastle-Liverpool in under 3 hours so stopping them at every town with more than 50,000 people living there would mean they'd be anything but a fast headline service. The new Piccadilly-Leeds semi-fasts will need to carry most of the passengers currently taken by the Victoria-Huddersfield stoppers so not stopping them at Stalybridge would prevent local connections that are currently possible.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Obviously, currently TPE services can call at Stalybridge but can't call at Ashton. The TPE call at Stalybridge allows people from Ashton, Mossley, Greenfield, Slaithwaite and Marsden to make onward journeys without backtracking e.g. Marsden-Warrington.

I had in mind the small number of bus services and destinations there at Stalybridge bus station for Tameside residents to board or disembark at Stalybridge railway station to return home, in comparison to the number of bus services and destinations served that are available at Ashton-under-Lyne. The Manchester Metrolink system is planned to terminate at Ashton-under-Lyne under the current operational proposals....the "talk" of the extension to Stalybridge is just that at the current time.

Incidentally, which of those two towns offers a direct bus service to Stockport (another southern area TfGM hub) ?

 

[AndyHudds]

It was a FNW Wakefield - Victoria service in the summer of 2004 but the Wakefield-Huddersfield section went to ATN by the following year and got tagged on to the Leeds-Huddersfield via Bradford service.

AndyHudds must be primary school age if he was born after they finished. I wonder if he remembers the Huddersfield-Lincoln services or the Liverpool-Sunderland via Huddersfield which ended around the same time or the short-lived Manchester-Huddersfield-Bridlington services.

I'm 36, but I don't ever recall that the Manchester Huddersfield stopper running through to Wakefield. If your right then fair enough, but I just don't ever recall it ever happening. Thanks for clearing it, but I still say there would be a case for re-instating the service even if it ran straight through to Wakefield after leaving Huddersfield without stopping at any intermediate stations.

 

[edwin_m]

I definitely travelled on a Wakefield-Manchester through stopper in around 2002, I remember because around Mirfield I was having a discussion around Mirfield with a teenager who was deciding where to leave the train to catch a but to Mottram. I agree a decent service between Wakefield and Manchester would be a good idea.

 

[northwichcat]

In the early 00s the fact that Victoria-Huddersfield-Wakefield was FNW and Piccadilly-Huddersfield-Leeds and Victoria-Bradford-Leeds was ATN it meant on strike days (which were frequent at the time) there was an alternative option for West Yorkshire to Manchester.

 

[davyp]

Possibly historical as Stalybridge was the junction with the line to Stockport - frequent trains from Stockport to Stalybridge to allow change to Trans-Pennine services. Now, of course, one train in one direction per week! In the late 1950's I used to live next door to someone who commuted from Stockport to Leeds every day changing at Stalybridge. My current next door neighbour gave up his Hazel Grove to Leeds commute due to overcrowding/cost. He retired early.