Endorsing tickets

[Hellfire]

Why do so many TMs/Guards and gate staff scribble on tickets with a biro rather than using a proper stamper? Certainly on VT services and at Euston gates, the biro seems to be obligatory.

Apart from being somewhat unprofessional, doesn't a stamper give a certain amount of information?

 

[chuckles1066]

Why do so many TMs/Guards and gate staff scribble on tickets with a biro rather than using a proper stamper? Certainly on VT services and at Euston gates, the biro seems to be obligatory.

Apart from being somewhat unprofessional, doesn't a stamper give a certain amount of information?

As a non-rail traveller now courtesy of having experienced what FGW were offering, I'd ask what's the point of putting anything on a ticket?

When I used the railways, on the few occasions I was asked to produce my ticket I did so and the guard merely nodded and carried on?

(When I was a kid, I'm sure they used to "punch" tickets using a device that left a crocodile-type impression along the edge of the ticket?)

 

[thelongestroad]

Loose them/they run out of ink/put them down in the TM office or cab/they break.

 

[Sleepy]

Tight TOC provide hole punch clipped which break easily ( if you're lucky) FGW seem to be only decent ones in this respect ?

 

[ModernRailways]

I had a ticket endorsed by Biro at Kings Cross.

How easy would it be though for potential fare dodgers (buying a cheaper Advance) to endorse it themselves?

At York once East Coast gave me a slip of paper, saying I was allowed to travel, it had my ticket number on too, but it was just a piece of paper.

It hadn't been signed nor stamped so I could have done it if I had so wished.

 

[bb21]

XC guards are very good generally nowadays with using Zifa stampers since they were bought a load of them by the parent company.

 

[156441]

Northern no longer get issued with anything apart from a 'sharpie' permanent marker.

A lot of us purchase our own clippers. I've got a couple of novelty designed ones but they don't put the date on so are useless for open tickets really.

 

[bb21]

I've witnessed a few Northern guards date return portion of period returns. Obviously it slows them right down so i don't think many do it.

 

[Flamingo]

We are supposed to use zifa's it's a franchise requirement. Some do, some don't.

Cleaners do not like us using clippers, it covers the inside of the train with little bits of paper.

Problem with a scribble is it's meaningless. I know some people don't bother clipping/marking day tickets or Advance tickets, as there is much less scope for fraud with these tickets. Personally, I'll often not mark travel cards on the way into London as this may cause problems with the mag strip.

 

[yorkie]

Northern no longer get issued with anything apart from a 'sharpie' permanent marker.

A lot of us purchase our own clippers. I've got a couple of novelty designed ones but they don't put the date on so are useless for open tickets really.

What relevance would writing a date have anyway?

 

[Flamingo]

With an open ticket it shows when it was used, as opposed to a meaningless scribble. Ticket should be marked with date & head code.

 

[sarahj]

We have clippers, but TBH dont have time to clip all tickets. I'll mark a return portion of a open return after asking if they are travelling all the way.

eg today on a littlehampton to Victoria train, asked pass if they were heading all the way back to london. they said yes, london bridge. So on the front wrote 6/9 and in the little endorsment box wrote 6/9 pld to ecr as that was the journey they were doing on my train.

 

[cyclebytrain]

There's one SouthEastern HS OBM who very carefully writes the headcode and date of the train on the ticket (and so incredibly neatly that the first time he did it, it took me at least a full minute to figure out what and where he had written on the ticket, despite seeing him write it! -It looked exactly like the printing on the ticket (and ironically, so much so that I'm 99% sure that no other OBM or RPI would have noticed it if I'd tried to reuse the ticket!) It's amusing to me to contrast his approach to some of the others who have put holes in my season......)

 

[yorkie]

With an open ticket it shows when it was used...

But unless the extra step taken by sarahj is taken (and I've never seen any guard do that - ever), it doesn't mean anything other than the journey was started (or resumed) on a particular date, but as the journey doesn't have to be completed until the end date*, it doesn't matter what date the journey commenced.

(* 0429 on the day after the last day of validity to be precise )

 

[Flamingo]

But unless the extra step taken by sarahj is taken (and I've never seen any guard do that - ever), it doesn't mean anything other than the journey was started (or resumed) on a particular date, but as the journey doesn't have to be completed until the end date*, it doesn't matter what date the journey commenced.

(* 0429 on the day after the last day of validity to be precise )

True, but if for example, the journey is Pad-Rdg, and they hand you a stamped ticket on a direct Pad-Rdg ( as happened last Sat) then it's a safe assumption they are trying to reuse the ticket.

Also, I have had people in the past giving me a ticket I had stamped the previous night, trying to tell me they had broken their journey.

 

[Eagle]

I've seen quite a few on XC, VT and EC, who will write with a pen what the stamper would have put, usually a very hurried scribble like 27-1e11 (this is a real example from a train I was on last week, 27 being the date and I guess a lowercase 'e' is quicker to write).

 

[RJ]

The OBMs on HS1 services use clippers with varying shapes - recently had a dog bone, moon and star and even a Cupid shaped nip.

As for dating tickets, I've been starkly against that ever since a champion ticket inspector decreed that I was not permitted to break my journey for two weeks (only a maximum of one night permitted allegedly) and proceeded to accuse me of misusing the ticket in several ways before filing a report against me.

Dating tickets upon inspection causes more problems than it solves.

 

[bnm]

The best recent 'endorsement' I had was a gateline member of staff tearing my ticket almost in half.

Ticket had failed to work the barrier, but had continuing validity (just popping out for a smoke at interchange station).

She then wrote on the back something completely unintelligible. With three further trains to catch that day I wasn't looking forward to having to explain the torn ticket and marker pen scrawl every time it was inspected, so I insisted on the ticket being replaced.

 

[Clip]

The OBMs on HS1 services use clippers with varying shapes - recently had a dog bone, moon and star and even a Cupid shaped nip.

As for dating tickets, I've been starkly against that ever since a champion ticket inspector decreed that I was not permitted to break my journey for two weeks (only a maximum of one night permitted allegedly) and proceeded to accuse me of misusing the ticket in several ways before filing a report against me.

Dating tickets upon inspection causes more problems than it solves.

You do get some interesting ones down there, also a christmas tree during the period too which is a ncie touch.

 

[Flamingo]

The best recent 'endorsement' I had was a gateline member of staff tearing my ticket almost in half.

Ticket had failed to work the barrier, but had continuing validity (just popping out for a smoke at interchange station).

She then wrote on the back something completely unintelligible. With three further trains to catch that day I wasn't looking forward to having to explain the torn ticket and marker pen scrawl every time it was inspected, so I insisted on the ticket being replaced.

If a ticket is invalid and the passenger refuses to sort out the deal I am offering them, I will rip the ticket so they have to show it at the barriers. RTP (refused to pay) is usually written on it as well, and they can explain it to barrier staff or on the next train.

 

[Marton]

None of these methods helps for those with open tickets.

I recently did York to London with an Open ticket and a break of 24 hours in London. I ended up with a 'proper' XC mark to Sheffield, followed by a squiggle and then a date the next day.

I was surprised no one asked a question!

 

[156441]

I think the problem is many passengers having an increased knowledge of ticket validity and guards/TM's being unable to keep upto date with ever changing rules and regs.

Some of the examples people have cited would be no problem if the passenger actually spoke to the guard (and vice versa).

I recently had a passenger on a MAN-CTR open return as I went to date his ticket (using my hugely expensive sharpie) he told me he was breaking his journey at Knutsford and restarting the next day . I wrote 2D44 2/9 on the front and then wrote 2/9 2D44 MAN-KNF on the back.

However a lot of people just don't speak and just grunt at you on the way down so as far as I'm concerned if your not polite enough to speak you just get 'dated'

 

[yorkie]

All a date means is that (part of) your journey was on a particular date, it doesn't mean anything else (unless extra information is shown on it, as mentioned above). The ticket absolutely remains valid for a break of journey at any stop and resuming any day within the validity period.

I never bother to say to guards "i am breaking at <station>" because on the occasions I did it, there was no difference to how they marked the ticket, and in any case there is no requirement to do so.

If the guard wants to ask a passenger how far they are travelling on a particular train so they can mark that, then fair enough but in some cases the passenger may not yet have decided.

However a lot of people just don't speak and just grunt at you on the way down so as far as I'm concerned if your not polite enough to speak you just get 'dated'

No problem, someone may break their journey at Stockport, Altrincham etc.

 

[maniacmartin]

Even worse, there's a chance that the guard might decide that your ticket isn't valid for BoJ even when it is. Then you get drawn into an argument. Best to stay quiet in my opinion.

 

[sheff1]

Even worse, there's a chance that the guard might decide that your ticket isn't valid for BoJ even when it is. Then you get drawn into an argument. Best to stay quiet in my opinion.

^^^
This. As far as I am concerned they can write whatever they want on the ticket - it doesn't change the validity.

Bizarrely, the other day a Northern guard wrote the date in huge numbers (covering half the ticket) on the outward portion of my day return to Wakefield !

 

[island]

What I find mildly amusing about the Zifa stampers is that they only have ten characters in each position, so the letter part of the headcode can only cover just under 40% of the possibilities!

 

[greatkingrat]

I guess for most TOCs, if you choose the right 10 letters, you can cover the vast majority of services?

 

[Flamingo]

What I find mildly amusing about the Zifa stampers is that they only have ten characters in each position, so the letter part of the headcode can only cover just under 40% of the possibilities!

ABCFGL & Z covers anything I'll ever need to work.

 

[Starmill]

When you think of marking a ticket with just a pen, this is what springs to mind:

I guess the squiggle can wander a bit:

London Midland seem to like marking seat reservations... why?

I think that's supposed to be something to do with the date:

London Euston love taking it to far I think:

And again!

Some of the more comedy clippers:

Variation on the Teddy Bear:

That's hard to see, but its actually a bone!

Awww, bless

Not seen one of these except on heritage railways before!

Then the best till last...

I actually panicked at this at first! I'm sure if you work it out, you'll know why.

 

[sheff1]

Back in BR days, I am fairly sure the the penultimate grip was used by the ticket collectors at destination stations to signify that the ticket had been used for the full journey and was no longer valid for travel.

I encountered it recently (also between Manchester and Sheffield, so presumably the same guard). If I had been breaking my journey at Stockport I would have queried whether it still had the same meaning, but as I was travelling through I didn't bother.