May 2014 timetable changes

[evergreenadam]

Are any changes to Southeastern trains in there as yet? Hoping for some of the improvements early to the Victoria-Dartford and Catford Loop services...

Southeastern are currently consulting on their proposals for later evening trains on the Victoria-Dartford route, for introduction in Dec 2014 if the DfT agree, so your chance to email and express your support. A Sunday service would be welcomed too.

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.u...lts-on-changes-to-timetable-in-december-2014/

 

[cle]

Sounds good for Denmark Hill particularly. It is such a busy station these days.

Direct trains to Faversham and Dover! Blimey... have emailed, ta.

 

[MartinsR]

So if the new Blackpool North to Huddersfield train only goes in that direction, where will the train come from/off before forming the train from man Vic to Blackpool North? I see it starts from Vic.

 

[northwichcat]

So if the new Blackpool North to Huddersfield train only goes in that direction, where will the train come from/off before forming the train from man Vic to Blackpool North? I see it starts from Vic.

The diagrams will be:

Blackpool-Huddersfield via Victoria
Huddersfield-Wigan via Victoria
Wigan-Victoria
Victoria-Blackpool

 

[samj]

I wonder what them diagrams will be booked for and if there will be any double sets out?

 

[northwichcat]

I wonder what them diagrams will be booked for and if there will be any double sets out?

Almost certainly a mixture of 142s, 150s and 156s.

 

[northernchris]

Almost certainly a mixture of 142s, 150s and 156s.

It must be a nightmare allocating the stock when there's significant timetable changes. In the case of the above, TfGM will no doubt specify minimum capacity on peak services so ensuring the required capacity is in the right place for both the AM and PM peaks has to be a headache for the planners

 

[Chapeltom]

I think you can fit two in 2C at Sheffield. There could also be an untimetabled shunt move.

I don't think you can, Platform 2C is very short. A 4 car pacer usually forms the 2247 from Sheffield to Manchester Picc and always leaves from Platform 7.

It looks as if the set arrives 1406 on platform 1A from Manchester Piccadilly 1249.

Nothing uses platform 2C between arrival of 1007/ dep 1014 (Manchester) and 1414 departure to Manchester. The 1207/1214 used platform 8A. Can 2 pacers fit 2C, leaving one set to work the 1414 ? Are there any doubled sets on Hope Valley?

The 2045 off Manchester Picc and 2247 return service is almost always a double set.

 

[northwichcat]

It must be a nightmare allocating the stock when there's significant timetable changes. In the case of the above, TfGM will no doubt specify minimum capacity on peak services so ensuring the required capacity is in the right place for both the AM and PM peaks has to be a headache for the planners

The change will mean shorter dwell times at Victoria meaning the platforms and units should be used more efficiently.

One of the strengthened Victoria-Huddersfield services must be a nightmare anyway as it's 2 x 142s on a Southport-Huddersfield service and the rear unit needs to be locked out of use before Marsden due to short platforms.

TfGM and Northern agree a list of strengthened services and if Northern don't strengthen to the required level then it means TfGM don't give Northern the full funding.

 

[johnnychips]

Chapeltom wrote:

I don't think you can, Platform 2C is very short. A 4 car pacer usually forms the 2247 from Sheffield to Manchester Picc and always leaves from Platform 7.

I've caught an EMT 4 carriage unit from there to Derby once. Don't know why it wasn't in usual platform.

EDIT: Sorry, talking crap. It was a 158 to Nottingham.

 

[LowLevel]

The last time an EMT 4 car set ended up in platform 2c as a result of an error it resulted in a 40 minute delay while all the passengers were detrained through a local door and the set had to be shunted back out to platform 1. Strictly 2 car only I believe.

 

[MartinsR]

The diagrams will be:

Blackpool-Huddersfield via Victoria
Huddersfield-Wigan via Victoria
Wigan-Victoria
Victoria-Blackpool

Oh right so do you mean the train from Wigan to Victoria will then go to Blackpool North? Same unit diff service?

 

[Darren R]

The newly extended Northern services from Manchester Victoria to Todmorden have a similar set-up to the Huddersfield - Blackpools. Trains terminating at Toddy come through from Kirkby via Bolton, but in the opposite direction only go as far as Wigan Wallgate (again via Bolton.) The off-peak diagramme seems to be:

Kirkby - Todmorden
Todmorden - Wigan Wallgate
Wigan - Man Vic
Man Vic - Kirkby.

Seems illogical on the face of it but I'm sure there is a good reason why!

 

[WatcherZero]

Advantage they can strengthen and destrengthen for peak from the Wigan sidings?

Though that Todmorden diagram looks like it would have the advantage of always only requiring one unit.

 

[BurtonM]

I must say, as a resident of Stalybridge I've been waiting a long, long time for an off-peak timetable change-up. Services into Yorkshire have always been fine (and are getting better in May - one less terminating eastbound, and one more through), so I'll say no more about them.

But in the Manchester direction?

For quite some time we had an alright service in the daytime:

-xx:01 Northern to MCV (though often a few late)
-xx:22 starting, Northern to Lime Street over Chat Moss
-xx:46 TPE to Lime Street via Warrington.

Then we got told we were getting another train per hour - great, we think, it'll fill the gap between :22 and :46.

Nope, it's at :51 (currently the Southport service). The most useless time possible, and we now have three Manchester-bound services in a fifteen-minute gap, and one with a silly wait either side of it.

And the May changes make it worse!
Now it's:

xx:08 Victoria shuttle (was xx:22 to Lime Street)
xx:15 to Piccadilly from Hull (no Ardwick wait, but rendered useless by Vic shuttle)
xx:46 to Wigan Wallgate (was xx:01 to Vic, will be full of people from further up)
xx:50 to Lime Street (was xx:46, assume the Ardwick wait is cut out).

I didn't think it was possible to make 4tph as useful as 2tph... A while ago I was told on another forum to consider 4tph good, but when there's a half hour service gap, it really isn't, is it?
This can't be the timetable for the forseeable future, can it? It's sort of obvious why TPE aren't interested in stopping, seeing as their services are too close to Northern's.
Who is it that keeps making us these useless timetables?

 

[transmanche]

Who is it that keeps making us these useless timetables?

I'd say it's most likely down to lack of stock.

As things stand, stock has to be diagrammed intensively and in a rather complex way (e.g. as previously mentioned; Blackpool-Huddersfield via Victoria, then Huddersfield-Wigan via Victoria, then Wigan-Victoria, then Victoria-Blackpool) rather than just shuttling back and forth. As the train needs to be somewhere else by a certain time in order to make the whole thing work, it's impossible to provide an optimal timetable on every route it covers.

 

[Darren R]

Oh boo-hoo! Poor old Staly only gets four trains per hour to Manchester!

I suspect Stalybridge is always going to struggle to fit regular-interval trains just because of the complexity of service pattern, both calling and non-stop to so many different destinations.

However, the Northern timetables for the north west have a distinct 'it'll have to do for now' temporary feeling about them. Alot of them are anything but ideal. With so many infrastructure programmes in the pipeline, and with the new franchises in the offing (at some point anyway!), I think it is safe to assume that there will be regular timetable changes from now until 2019 on many routes - not least TPE North through Stalybridge.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I must say, as a resident of Stalybridge I've been waiting a long, long time for an off-peak timetable change-up. Services into Yorkshire have always been fine (and are getting better in May - one less terminating eastbound, and one more through), so I'll say no more about them.

But in the Manchester direction?

For quite some time we had an alright service in the daytime:

-xx:01 Northern to MCV (though often a few late)
-xx:22 starting, Northern to Lime Street over Chat Moss
-xx:46 TPE to Lime Street via Warrington.

Then we got told we were getting another train per hour - great, we think, it'll fill the gap between :22 and :46.

Nope, it's at :51 (currently the Southport service). The most useless time possible, and we now have three Manchester-bound services in a fifteen-minute gap, and one with a silly wait either side of it.

And the May changes make it worse!
Now it's:

xx:08 Victoria shuttle (was xx:22 to Lime Street)
xx:15 to Piccadilly from Hull (no Ardwick wait, but rendered useless by Vic shuttle)
xx:46 to Wigan Wallgate (was xx:01 to Vic, will be full of people from further up)
xx:50 to Lime Street (was xx:46, assume the Ardwick wait is cut out).

I didn't think it was possible to make 4tph as useful as 2tph... A while ago I was told on another forum to consider 4tph good, but when there's a half hour service gap, it really isn't, is it?
This can't be the timetable for the forseeable future, can it? It's sort of obvious why TPE aren't interested in stopping, seeing as their services are too close to Northern's.
Who is it that keeps making us these useless timetables?

This may come as a shock but Stalybridge is not the centre of the universe.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There are much worse examples than Stalybridge. From May as far as I can remember (from messing about with OTT), Cambridge-Audley End is 4tph within about 20 minutes. Some stations along the SWML enjoy a 2tph each way service, only 10 mins apart!

 

[Darren R]

At least Denton has a regular interval timetable!

 

[tractakid]

Has the Greater Anglia service from Stansted to Cambridge disappeared?

 

[Aictos]

This may come as a shock but Stalybridge is not the centre of the universe.

Agreed, what's the matter with the proposals? 4tph is good enough, remember there's places in the UK with far less services

 

[BurtonM]

The point is more the proximity of the services to each other - eight minutes between an empty shuttle to Victoria and a full TPE to Piccadilly, neither going any further. There is no use at all in the ex-Hull train stopping unless someone really needs to go to Piccadilly instead of Victoria, or someone gets off the TPE - and as it is, nobody does as it currently doesn't stop!

 

[IanD]

The point is more the proximity of the services to each other - eight minutes between an empty shuttle to Victoria and a full TPE to Piccadilly, neither going any further. There is no use at all in the ex-Hull train stopping unless someone really needs to go to Piccadilly instead of Victoria, or someone gets off the TPE - and as it is, nobody does as it currently doesn't stop!

People may want to travel to Piccadilly for better onward connections than Victoria (eg London, South West etc...)

 

[BurtonM]

Apologies, not got my head screwed on properly this evening and that hadn't occurred to me - I'm used to only 1tph to Piccadilly... I shan't go into going to Victoria and getting the Metrolink up to Pic, as that would send everything off on a tangent.

 

[gingerheid]

Has the Greater Anglia service from Stansted to Cambridge disappeared?

Don't think so

http://opentraintimes.com/departures/CBG/to/SSD/2014-06-16/0000-2359

 

[tractakid]

Don't think so

http://opentraintimes.com/departures/CBG/to/SSD/2014-06-16/0000-2359

Bizarre, I convinced myself they had disappeared earlier. Yep, they are still there.

 

[47421]

I cant see them either now - anyone know for sure that GA are intending to introduce these services?

I am not convinced - the services that showed on open train times were off peak only and stopped only at Audley End. Better than nothing, but did look like a fairly token effort. Seems odd that they would not serve any of the other intermediate stations, none of which currently have a service to Stansted Airport and some of which are quite busy and would really benefit from an Airport service, for Airport workers, people flying as well as offering additional journey opportunities to London via Stansted Express

 

[306024]

That is their intention I guess, otherwise the schedules wouldn't have even appeared, even briefly. These days you don't simply time a train, find a unit and crew and run it, there are a whole lot of regulatory hoops to jump through. Perhaps someone has objected. All speculation of course, and nothing should appear in the public domain until all the agreements are in place. Maybe NR jumped the gun by publishing these schedules?

Yes it is a token effort in some marginal down time in the unit diagrams. Of course if it were to run in the peak that would require more trains. Could it be pathed if it called at all stations?

 

[gingerheid]

Yes - they seem to have been removed now. While Cambridge needs more trains to Stansted, losing those ones is no great loss!