Railway food

[12CSVT]

A few things to say about British Rail catering here (from 1 min 15 sec)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXXwxJdYk-g

 

[Timothy Turtle]

....... or even a properly toasted bacon sandwich on an old 4BIG unit coming back from Brighton.

I recall the days when I used to commute on the Brighton line on a CIG-BIG-CIG and had a toasted bacon sandwich every morning. The steward would look out of the buffet car window as the train pulled into my station to check I was on the platform and then put the bacon on. My sandwich would be brought to my seat in about 3 minutes. Those were the days!

 

[yorksrob]

EDIT - to add that I used to really like the brunch muffins that Travellers Fare did, even though they were just prepacked and microwaved. I had a modern equivalent at Costa today and it was nowhere near as good.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about those. They were nice (albeit often hotter than the sun out of the microwave )
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have mixed feelings about the independent 'catering trolley' on Southeastern mainline services (I think it's Rail Gourmet?). Sure, it's a great convenience to have at your seat whilst travelling but the prices of the food/drink aren't ideal and the fuss it causes going through is annoying. The food itself isn't bad, as most of it is just brand names.

It is nice being able to get a bottle of Shepherd Neame on the train into Charing Cross. And being beer, you're probably still paying less than you would in a pub down there.

 

[Parallel]

When it comes to modern catering, I rarely get the chance to use HSTs or services that have a designated shop area or a kitchen/travelling chef. I rarely get food or drinks from the trollies that are on some services in my local area because I usually have time to nip to the shop to get a £3 meal deal.

I do buy from the trolley on the Cambrian line however, as by this point, I've travelled for quite a long time, have probably eaten everything I brought with me and am hungry!!

I would like to try FGW's pullman dining (when I have significantly more money than I currently have :P ) however I never need to travel to either Paddington or Plymouth. It's something I want to do though! I also want to try the restaurant on ATW's premier service, and although I travel on the Marches every few months, the menus seem (generally speaking, of course) less appealing than FGW's.

 

[aylesbury]

Had an excellent dinner from Manchester to Watford back in the seventies.

Pâté steak and apple pie all well cooked and served. The coach was packed yet still served quickly and we had a decent window to look out of.

 

[andythebrave]

Casey Jones burgers. Enough said

Oh yes! Used to pop over to the one at Glasgow Central in the 80s for lunch.

The very best though was the Angus steak sandwich at Carlisle in the 60s, closely followed by a superb lunch between Blackpool and London sometime around the mid to late 80s.

Most current offerings are too obviously reliant on a microwave to be regarded as good. Passable yes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And I forgot some rather excellent dinners on the Royal Highlander between Euston and Crewe on the way home to Liverpool from Brands Hatch again in the 60s.

 

[LateThanNever]

BR food was pretty sketchy till the mid 1970s - ham ,cheese (with or without tomato) on white. Individual "fruit" pies etc. Crack trains had good silver service diner cars. (not bad value actually -as even as a student could afford a sit down meal - excellent plaice and chips for example , tomato soup before and cheese / biscuits and celery after. Coffee served from a proper pot.

The step change came with HST - apart from (short lived draught beer) - you had much better pre-packed sandwiches thanks to Pru Leith being a Travellers Fare consultant / Board member - even the famous "Express Burger" and fresh chips for around £1 or so - more choice all round. BR Pullman services by 1986 had excellent fare - especially the High Tea option with Welsh Rarebit , etc. - and superb chocolate cakes. Much maligned - and probably deservedly so before then.

But motorway food could be equally dire in those days. Standards have risen allround.

But the selection has diminished and I'm not sure that the new trolley standards are much different than before! The stock situation both in 'buffet' and trolley is often dire. Which, given that these days there is a fair selection of good quality ambient microwavable meals there should really be little excuse for running out of, or not even offering hot meals as often as they do. Prue Leith II is needed again to improve the offering, and if franchises were anything more than a licence to print money they should treat it as part of their individual journey experience, but unsurprisingly the bean counters reign.

 

[scotsman]

This makes very interesting reading. All I'm saying is there's a future in onboard catering on mid-long distance trains. And staff working on commission.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I don't think that franchises are a licence to print money these days - (most of the costs arise from Network Rail)

Back to food - railway catering has always been a loss leader - high staffing costs and a lowish ,captive market. The competition from station food outlets and reduced journey times make it hard to compete truly. An 8 hours Anglo-Scottish trip in say 1935 meant you needed your Brown Windsor soup , Roast , and dessert. Plus it killed time in a prewar none Smartphone world.

The best food on board (outside the UK) has to be on the Czech diners serving Germany via Dresden to Berlin say- absolute old schook , quality and very affordable.

 

[infobleep]

Personally I would buy food on a Few services less so on a Cross Country. If it's just packaged I can get it cheaper elsewhere. But if they have cooked it, then I'm interested as I'm getting a more personal tailored service as I see it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[scotraildriver]

I'm not biased because I work them, but I love the food on the Caledonian sleeper. OK its microwaved haggis,lasagne etc but its served on a proper plate and at £6 for a main course and £9 for a whole bottle of wine I think great value. Followed by hot chocolate brownie and custard. Yummy.

 

[Butts]

I'm not biased because I work them, but I love the food on the Caledonian sleeper. OK its microwaved haggis,lasagne etc but its served on a proper plate and at £6 for a main course and £9 for a whole bottle of wine I think great value. Followed by hot chocolate brownie and custard. Yummy.

Sort it so I can finish with a Brandy and Cigar and I'll be there

 

[scotraildriver]

Sort it so I can finish with a Brandy and Cigar and I'll be there

You can defo get a brandy or a choice of 8 malt whiskies. As for the cigar you can step off at Edinburgh for that.........

 

[Greenback]

But the selection has diminished and I'm not sure that the new trolley standards are much different than before! The stock situation both in 'buffet' and trolley is often dire. Which, given that these days there is a fair selection of good quality ambient microwavable meals there should really be little excuse for running out of, or not even offering hot meals as often as they do. Prue Leith II is needed again to improve the offering, and if franchises were anything more than a licence to print money they should treat it as part of their individual journey experience, but unsurprisingly the bean counters reign.

I take it you weren't travelling in the late 80's or early 90's? In those days the shelves were pretty bare of anything apart from the most basic of items, and poor stock control meant that they usually ran oput very quickly. You often couldn't even find a biscuit.

Boththe range of items on offer and the availability are a sight better today than 20-25 years ago in my experience.

Back to food - railway catering has always been a loss leader - high staffing costs and a lowish ,captive market. The competition from station food outlets and reduced journey times make it hard to compete truly. An 8 hours Anglo-Scottish trip in say 1935 meant you needed your Brown Windsor soup , Roast , and dessert. Plus it killed time in a prewar none Smartphone world.

Spot on there. Although we often get food beforehand, either from home or a supermarket, whenever I;ve bought food on board it has been of good quality, certainly comparable to Boots and M&S quality wise, if not cost wise.

Personally I would buy food on a Few services less so on a Cross Country. If it's just packaged I can get it cheaper elsewhere. But if they have cooked it, then I'm interested as I'm getting a more personal tailored service as I see it.

One of the advantages of on train catering is where you cna get a hot meal during the journey instead of on arrival.

I don't like the though of arriving in a strange town at around 2100, having to find my accommodation, check in, and then go looking for soemthing to eat that isn't necessarily a kebab!

I'm not biased because I work them, but I love the food on the Caledonian sleeper. OK its microwaved haggis,lasagne etc but its served on a proper plate and at £6 for a main course and £9 for a whole bottle of wine I think great value. Followed by hot chocolate brownie and custard. Yummy.

I've eaten on the sleeper a couple of times and heartily endorse your comments!

 

[Jones]

I think the main reason onboard catering is a loss maker is it's perceived cost.

I wonder if catering would make more if the prices were lower?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I once travelled (around 1972) by Motorail from Newton-le-Willows to St Austell - nominally non-stop.
The train might have had 30 passengers on board, all families going on holiday in Cornwall.
The restaurant car was manned by a cheery Liverpool crew who served breakfast around Crewe, lunch around Bristol, and afternoon tea around Plymouth.
I think it might have been free (ie included in the fare).
All freshly cooked and giant portions. I did a similar run to Stirling the next year.
The Motorail services from NLW were withdrawn soon after.
The loading sidings were left derelict until recently, but now sport switchgear for the new Chat Moss electrification.

Today's on-train trolley offerings are often very poor, especially tepid "hot" drinks.
They also still use those horrible UHT milk sachets.
But then LM don't offer that much, even on a 2-hour journey.

 

[Greenback]

I once travelled (around 1972) by Motorail from Newton-le-Willows to St Austell - nominally non-stop.
The train might have had 30 passengers on board, all families going on holiday in Cornwall.
The restaurant car was manned by a cheery Liverpool crew who served breakfast around Crewe, lunch around Bristol, and afternoon tea around Plymouth.
I think it might have been free (ie included in the fare).
All freshly cooked and giant portions. I did a similar run to Stirling the next year.
The Motorail services from NLW were withdrawn soon after.
The loading sidings were left derelict until recently, but now sport switchgear for the new Chat Moss electrification.

Today's on-train trolley offerings are often very poor, especially tepid "hot" drinks.
They also still use those horrible UHT milk sachets.
But then LM don't offer that much, even on a 2-hour journey.

I remember the Motorail brochures of the 1970's. No doubt the fares were quite high by the standards of the day if meals were included. If not, BR missed a trick! If there were no restaurant or buffet facilities I seem to recall you could order cold tray meals for your compartment.

I am not a fan of the UHT milk, and the water jugs often lose a bit of heat (it's the same when we used to have tean and coffee in meetings and presentations) but I do find it preferable to not being able to get a warm drink!

 

[Be3G]

I'm not biased because I work them, but I love the food on the Caledonian sleeper. OK its microwaved haggis,lasagne etc but its served on a proper plate and at £6 for a main course and £9 for a whole bottle of wine I think great value. Followed by hot chocolate brownie and custard. Yummy.

I've only travelled once and opted for the chicken curry followed by the cheese board. I have to admit I wasn't that impressed with the quality of the curry – quite a small serving and not much meat in it – but I did definitely appreciate the presentation with the bread, laid out nicely on an oblong plate. The cheese board though was excellent and eating nearly all of it to myself ensured I didn't go hungry.

 

[Greenback]

The cheeseboard has been fantastic whenever I have had it!

 

[cf111]

A third cheer for the cheeseboard. I was stuffed after the haggis and two tins of Deuchars but I managed it somehow .

 

[scotsman]

I think the main reason onboard catering is a loss maker is it's perceived cost.

I wonder if catering would make more if the prices were lower?

Perceived cost is an issue, but I tend to hear it from people who are buying anyway. The cost is seen as pure profiteering, but you have to remember that sales vary per train. An 0500 long distance departure will likely take a fraction of what the 1100 or 1500 might - yet the TOC (or their contractor, in some cases) still has to cover the costs of providing the catering service.

Also, many TOCs see catering staff as useful customer service staff - therefore, any 'loss' should really be seen as an investment.

 

[dk1]

Also, many TOCs see catering staff as useful customer service staff - therefore, any 'loss' should really be seen as an investment.

In a similar way to swimming pools at hotels. Most of us will not use it (me excluded) yet choose the place for having it. Loss leader is I think the term used.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I think the main reason onboard catering is a loss maker is it's perceived cost.

I wonder if catering would make more if the prices were lower?

I think it is a combination of cost, quality and availability. Station food also tends to be expensive so cost isn't necessarially a great issue but the problem comens that a deep fill sandwich, drink and crisps costs about £3 from a supermarket or chemist. You're look at over twice the amount on a train and its unlikely to be deepfill.

Problem is its horse and cart. No TOC is going to provide food offering value for money until they know there is demand. At the same time passengers aren't going to buy the offerings until they know it offers value for money.

I use value for money because for example I could at lunchtime walk to a supermarket and get lunch for £3. Instead I go to the cafe round the corner and get a choice of jacket potato, sarnie, crisps, hot food etc and usually spend about £6 but its all freshly made, convienent etc and therefore offers quality over value.

 

[infobleep]

I'm going to be traveling on the Caledonian Sleeper soon so I might consider their food offerings.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Tetchytyke]

Problem is its horse and cart. No TOC is going to provide food offering value for money until they know there is demand. At the same time passengers aren't going to buy the offerings until they know it offers value for money.

Sometimes it IS profiteering though. A cup of coffee on Grand Central is about 80p cheaper than a cup of coffee on East Coast or Cross Country. It's a similar story with the food.

I always find Virgin's on board shop to provide pretty good value, and it's a shame Cross Country got rid of it on their trains.

I just wish train companies would stop using "Tastes Like Real Snot" sachets, rather than at least using UHT milk.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Catering staff "on board" often use it as a way into the industry - to guard / conductor and driver.

Whilst assessing a bid a some years ago - for a Regional TOC still in business - an add-on was offered to cover trains with a trolley from 0700 -1900 from bases for a modest annual sum. This was duly added into the winning bid and accepted. (a) On Board staff are good news (b) Source of local jobs and railway minded folk who can progress. (c) Local jobs - directly employed (d) Staff trained in train evacuation etc. and a help to the on board conductor.

Proud and pleased with that. Nice to see - so I hear - "rail family dynasties" formed.

PS - on board coffee sales are where the profit is ....or coffee sales UK wide if you look at the proliferation on the High Streets.

 

[yorksrob]

PS - on board coffee sales are where the profit is ....or coffee sales UK wide if you look at the proliferation on the High Streets.

Surely tea as well, given that it's also flogged at an exorbitant price ?!

 

[LateThanNever]

Catering staff "on board" often use it as a way into the industry - to guard / conductor and driver.

Whilst assessing a bid a some years ago - for a Regional TOC still in business - an add-on was offered to cover trains with a trolley from 0700 -1900 from bases for a modest annual sum. This was duly added into the winning bid and accepted. (a) On Board staff are good news (b) Source of local jobs and railway minded folk who can progress. (c) Local jobs - directly employed (d) Staff trained in train evacuation etc. and a help to the on board conductor.

Proud and pleased with that. Nice to see - so I hear - "rail family dynasties" formed.

PS - on board coffee sales are where the profit is ....or coffee sales UK wide if you look at the proliferation on the High Streets.

Agree very much - though it always strikes me that they get their extra staff which is good but then they could do even better by just employing a food buyer from the catering/grocery trades to make sure the quality and right buying price were in place rather than selling so much branded food which perhaps gives them credibility but really eats in to margins and makes the selling price so 'prohibitive'. Smaller or no brands at all could give the opportunity to improve margins and - incidentally - give people better quality to boot! Hence more happy to travel with the company in question...

 

[yorksrob]

rather than selling so much branded food which perhaps gives them credibility but really eats in to margins and makes the selling price so 'prohibitive'

Certainly the introduction of the Ginsters range has made sandwiches prohibitively expensive in the Pumpkin outlets.

 

[BritishRail83]

Travellers Fayre used to do lovely bacon and tomato rolls, I always used to ask Mum if I could have one from there whenever We went on a Network railcard trip. those were the days, toothpaste,blue and grey and jaffa cake liveried slam door stock!