First Group: General Discussion

[Stan Drews]

Whats even stranger, its been reported, Lothian are allowing Stagecoach to park buses in one of the depots.

That report is complete nonsense. :roll:

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Even though Glasgow has just had a huge delivery of E300's, I'm surprised they aren't getting more from that order. Parkhead could certainly do with more than just 11 Streetlites...

 

[Deerfold]

Hope this helps

First Bus orders & allocations for 2014

33831 – 33857 ADL / E400’s for Rusholme
33858 – 33872 ADL / E400’s for Sheffield
33873 – 33890 ADL / E400’s for Bramley
44600 – 44636 ADL / E200’s for Ravenhill
47466 – 47481 WB Streetlite’s for Tameside
47482 – 47492 WB Streetlite’s for Doncaster
47493 – 47500 WB Streetlite’s for Huddersfield
47501 – 47506 WB Streetlite’s for Gt. Yarmouth
47507 – 47518 WB Streetlite’s for Worcester
47519 – 47528 WB Streetlite’s for Hadleigh
47529 – 47534 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
47535 – 47543 ? Not ordered ?
47544 – 47558 WB Streetlite’s for Bath
47559 – 47571 WB Streetlite’s for Hengrove
47572 ? Not ordered ?
47573 – 47594 WB Streetlite’s for Hoeford
47595 – 47612 WB Streetlite’s for Southampton
47613 – 47617 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
47618 – 47628 WB Streetlite’s for Parkhead
49901 – 49912 Optare Versa’s for York
53501 – 53509 Optare Solo’s for Hoeford
53510 – 53515 Optare Solo’s for Weymouth
63119 – 63145 WB Streetlite’s for Sheffield
63146 – 63156 WB Streetlite’s for Rusholme
63157 – 63160 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
63161 – 63170 WB Streetlite’s for Hadleigh
63171 – 63180 WB Streetlite’s for Leicester
63181 – 63189 WB Streetlite’s for Weymouth
63190 – 63192 WB Streetlite’s for Slough
63193 – 63218 WB Streetlite’s for Aberdeen
63219 – 63223 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
63224 – 63240 WB Streetlite’s for Blantyre
64994 – 64997 Van-Hool A330’s for Aberdeen

Wow - I thought the greengrocer's apostrophes tended to come out in this section of the forum but this post must set some sort of record.

(Number in post: 30, number required: 0)

 

[Robertj21a]

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There's 31.......



Robert

 

[Blindtraveler]

Van-Hool A330’s for Aberdeen? Very interesting - what exactly are these for?

 

[robertclark125]

Van-Hool A330’s for Aberdeen? Very interesting - what exactly are these for?

Aberdeen Bridge of Don - Aberdeen City Centre park and ride. However, until space becomes available at Aberdeen City Council's Kittybrewster depot to fuel them, they'll be fuelled and maintained at Stagecoach Bluebird's Insch depot.

 

[mbonwick]

Not exactly ordered by First either - they're entirely funded by Aberdeen City Council!

 

[90019]

Noticed that on 22nd April Lothian are launching a service 43 between Waterloo place and Barnton, shadowing the FSE 43. Wonder why they're holding back from running all the way to south queensferry.

I wouldn't be too surprised if it does eventually get extended to Queensferry as it terminates in a rather strange and awkward place at Barnton. Though the rumour of a bus to Queensferry has been doing the rounds at every service change since before I started.

However, Stagecoach are already in there for the Queensferry market with the 40.

I doubt it wil last long - think its mainly to scare SC as mbonwick suggests. What it may do is take pressure of the 41 at busy times but think it will mostly carry fresh air.

The cynic in me thinks it's an attempt to get some of the passengers back from the 40, which skips Davidson's Mains and is faster into Edinburgh.

Whats even stranger, its been reported, Lothian are allowing Stagecoach to park buses in one of the depots.

Strange, but not true.

 

[Volvodart]

Aberdeen Bridge of Don - Aberdeen City Centre park and ride. However, until space becomes available at Aberdeen City Council's Kittybrewster depot to fuel them, they'll be fuelled and maintained at Stagecoach Bluebird's Insch depot.

They are just being stored there until required. I do not think they will be going all the way from Aberdeen to Insch and back to be fuelled every day! There is a "launch" for them in Aberdeen next month, so I would expect they will be at the First Aberdeen depot by then.

 

[Deerfold]

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There's 31.......



Robert

They're obviously doing my head in...

 

[winston270twm]

Hope this helps

First Bus orders & allocations for 2014

33831 – 33857 ADL / E400’s for Rusholme
33858 – 33872 ADL / E400’s for Sheffield
33873 – 33890 ADL / E400’s for Bramley
44600 – 44636 ADL / E200’s for Ravenhill
47466 – 47481 WB Streetlite’s for Tameside
47482 – 47492 WB Streetlite’s for Doncaster
47493 – 47500 WB Streetlite’s for Huddersfield
47501 – 47506 WB Streetlite’s for Gt. Yarmouth
47507 – 47518 WB Streetlite’s for Worcester
47519 – 47528 WB Streetlite’s for Hadleigh
47529 – 47534 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
47535 – 47543 ? Not ordered ?
47544 – 47558 WB Streetlite’s for Bath
47559 – 47571 WB Streetlite’s for Hengrove
47572 ? Not ordered ?
47573 – 47594 WB Streetlite’s for Hoeford
47595 – 47612 WB Streetlite’s for Southampton
47613 – 47617 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
47618 – 47628 WB Streetlite’s for Parkhead
49901 – 49912 Optare Versa’s for York
53501 – 53509 Optare Solo’s for Hoeford
53510 – 53515 Optare Solo’s for Weymouth
63119 – 63145 WB Streetlite’s for Sheffield
63146 – 63156 WB Streetlite’s for Rusholme
63157 – 63160 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
63161 – 63170 WB Streetlite’s for Hadleigh
63171 – 63180 WB Streetlite’s for Leicester
63181 – 63189 WB Streetlite’s for Weymouth
63190 – 63192 WB Streetlite’s for Slough
63193 – 63218 WB Streetlite’s for Aberdeen
63219 – 63223 WB Streetlite’s for Scotland East
63224 – 63240 WB Streetlite’s for Blantyre
64994 – 64997 Van-Hool A330’s for Aberdeen

KendalKing,

When was the above list correct too?

Worcester for example, were originally down for 8 x Streetlites 47513-47520, BBP Fleet book has then down for 6 x 47513 – 47518 Streetlite DF for Worcester, now the above list has then down for 12.

47535-47543 were originally down to go to Port Talbot as part of a batch of 13.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

KendalKing,

When was the above list correct too?

Worcester for example, were originally down for 8 x Streetlites 47513-47520, BBP Fleet book has then down for 6 x 47513 – 47518 Streetlite DF for Worcester, now the above list has then down for 12.

47535-47543 were originally down to go to Port Talbot as part of a batch of 13.

47507-12 were down for Norwich.

That said, there are often changes to allocations. After all, Weymouth wasn't due any new kit in 2013

 

[winston270twm]

47507-12 were down for Norwich.

That said, there are often changes to allocations. After all, Weymouth wasn't due any new kit in 2013

My list shows 47501-47512 were all due at Great Yarmouth, BBP has them split between Great Yarmouth & Norwich.

You can understand a few minor allocation changes, but it seems there are still fairly decent quantities being re-allocated around the group

 

[Volvodart]

Can you please post this other new buses list that has been referred to a few times here so we can all see it.

 

[winston270twm]

Can you please post this other new buses list that has been referred to a few times here so we can all see it.

No Sorry, I was asked not to post it. It's clearly out of date now, as was correct to Jan

 

[Volvodart]

No Sorry, I was asked not to post it. It's clearly out of date now, as was correct to Jan

So, just to confirm, the information you posted from the BBP book is more likely to be correct. It is just that on some other forums some (anonymous) posters have been saying that the BBP book is wrong.

 

[winston270twm]

So, just to confirm, the information you posted from the BBP book is more likely to be correct.

The info from BBP which came via another forum originally First Group Fans was more up to date than the list I have, however, KendalKings list appears to be more up to date now than the BBP First Group Handbook?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

The info from BBP which came via another forum originally First Group Fans was more up to date than the list I have, however, KendalKings list appears to be more up to date now than the BBP First Group Handbook?

Yeah more than likely, it's the same with the Stagecoach BBP. Their new order is slightly out of date and more updated now than first published.

 

[KendalKing]

KendalKing,

When was the above list correct too?

End of March

Van-Hool A330’s for Aberdeen? Very interesting

Not exactly ordered by First either - they're entirely funded by Aberdeen City Council!

That will explain why both First & Stagecoach have Van-Hool A330 on order for Aberdeen area operations.

 

[Shrimper]

Looks like Rusholme is going to do well!

 

[winston270twm]

Looks like Rusholme is going to do well!

Yes.

So not only does Rusholme create a big distraction for First Group management, First Group are now locking horns with Stagecoach & a bus war is showing signs of breaking out and potential losses can only escalate from the takeover from EYMS.

In addition Rusholme will be swallowing up 38 new buses from the 2014/15 orders, which is approx 8.5% of total group orders. Whether some of the earlier 13 plate Streetlites will be released once the above arrive?

 

[DunsBus]

Yes.

So not only does Rusholme create a big distraction for First Group management, First Group are now locking horns with Stagecoach & a bus war is showing signs of breaking out and potential losses can only escalate from the takeover from EYMS.

In addition Rusholme will be swallowing up 38 new buses from the 2014/15 orders, which is approx 8.5% of total group orders. Whether some of the earlier 13 plate Streetlites will be released once the above arrive?

So let me get this right, First are happily engaging in a bus war in Manchester against Stagecoach, yet up in Edinburgh they announced their withdrawal from the Edinburgh-South Queensferry corridor within days of Stagecoach announcing their intention to run on it! You get the impression that First Scotland East is a law unto itself, instead of tackling competition it spits out the dummy as soon as a rival comes on the scene. It may be a new era at First but it's the same old tricks as far as First Scotland East is concerned...:roll:

 

[winston270twm]

So let me get this right, First are happily engaging in a bus war in Manchester against Stagecoach, yet up in Edinburgh they announced their withdrawal from the Edinburgh-South Queensferry corridor within days of Stagecoach announcing their intention to run on it! You get the impression that First Scotland East is a law unto itself, instead of tackling competition it spits out the dummy as soon as a rival comes on the scene. It may be a new era at First but it's the same old tricks as far as First Scotland East is concerned...:roll:

The same happened in Plymouth, Stagecoach Devon registered a new Gold service between Plymouth & Torquay in direct competition with First D&C X80 & X81, First immediately withdrew. I expect it is some sort of unofficial deal between the two companies, after all First sold the majority of its non-London bus business disposals to Stagecoach

 

[overthewater]

Of course, its got nothing to do with the fact, both area don't make profits. I'm still hopeful the new Street lite promised will appear, despite this fact.

 

[Deerfold]

The same happened in Plymouth, Stagecoach Devon registered a new Gold service between Plymouth & Torquay in direct competition with First D&C X80 & X81, First immediately withdrew. I expect it is some sort of unofficial deal between the two companies

So what's in it for First?

, after all First sold the majority of its non-London bus businesses to Stagecoach

I must have missed this! When did this happen?

 

[robertclark125]

One potential benefit of having Stagecoach running between South Queensferry and Edinburgh as opposed to First, is that Stagecoach gives change, First doesn't. During Stagecoach's brief ownership of Preston Bus, that was also a benefit.

I just wonder if perhaps that is an achillies heel for FSE, given the rural or interurban nature of some of the routes, the exact fare system. If they got rid of that and started giving change, perhaps it would benefit passengers, though I do know there are both timekeeping and security issues.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So what's in it for First

What's in it for First? Oooh, I don't know? Not having a second competitive front whilst battling PCB? Stagecoach coming off the X14 to Bristol. A long service, intensely seasonal and needing investment (and a fair chunk Totnes to Torquay in enemy territory?)

 

[DunsBus]

One potential benefit of having Stagecoach running between South Queensferry and Edinburgh as opposed to First, is that Stagecoach gives change, First doesn't. During Stagecoach's brief ownership of Preston Bus, that was also a benefit.

I just wonder if perhaps that is an achillies heel for FSE, given the rural or interurban nature of some of the routes, the exact fare system. If they got rid of that and started giving change, perhaps it would benefit passengers, though I do know there are both timekeeping and security issues.

Only the depots in the Edinburgh area - Livingston, Musselburgh and North Berwick - employ the exact-fare system, as did Dalkeith and Westfield depots before they closed. The rest of FSE gives change.
Incidentally there is still no word up on the FSE website about the withdrawal of the 43, merely a brief mention of it in the Easter service changes, though FSE have also tweeted a reminder about it on their Twitter feed. The Edinburgh part of FSE seems to specialise in shooting itself in the foot when it comes to the basics.

 

[winston270twm]

What's in it for First? Oooh, I don't know? Not having a second competitive front whilst battling PCB? Stagecoach coming off the X14 to Bristol. A long service, intensely seasonal and needing investment (and a fair chunk Totnes to Torquay in enemy territory?)

Couldn't have put it better myself TheGrandWazoo, I suspect some official agreement has taken place between the two parties.

As for Deerfold's other comment, he knows exactly what I was referring too re: First disposals to Stagecoach, just being pedantic.....

 

[Strathclyder]

Major shake-up for bus services in city

A BUS company is introducing a major shake-up of services across Glasgow and the surrounding area before the end of the month.

First Glasgow is scrapping journeys between Paisley and Linwood and abandoning the M8 service between the busy Silverburn shopping centre and North Pollok on the city's south side.

The bus company, which plans to make more than 30 changes to its existing timetable from next Sunday, says the latest cuts and alterations are designed to boost customer numbers.

The N9 service between the neighbouring communities of Paisley and Linwood will be stopped and routes taken by buses 9 and 9A will be revised, meaning they will no longer run between Linwood and Paisley's West End and Gauze Street.

The company says the routes are not attracting enough passengers.

The M8 service between Silverburn and North Pollok is also being withdrawn though First Glasgow said their 49 service is being revised to "largely replace" the axed bus.

City passengers face a cut to number 42 which runs between Partick Bus Station and Garscadden via Whiteinch and Scotstoun.

Some shoppers are on track for a better service.

The simpliCITY 3 runs twice an hour between Drumchapel and Govan via Partick, city centre and Silverburn.

But a new 20-minute service is being introduced on a Sunday, "during shopping hours," although buses will travel via Barrhead Road rather than Silverburn Bus Station before 9.30am and after 10.30pm.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/major-shake-up-for-bus-services-in-city.24005598