Construction progress: TPE 350/4

[user15681]

Now heard thats a strong rumour......368/9/372 now all at Crewe.

Also heard that a 350/4 has been damaged in a collision at Ardwick, sideswiped by another unit apparently. Anyone heard anything about this?

Tony Miles (from Modern Railways) reports that 350402 and another unit (I believe it to be 350408) were sideswiped by an out of gauge crane being dragged by GBRf, possibly due to an unlatched door. Scratches and dents down one side, time for repairs being planned but bearing in mind 9 are needed for daily diagrams, that won't be easy.

Although, I have heard two others had a bump at Ardwick, not sure on that one though. (350405 has scratches so could be one involved)

 

[Class 170101]

Sounds like 350/3s might be in for a bit more use than just the Commonwealth Games before they enter service with LM.

 

[harz99]

Tony Miles (from Modern Railways) reports that 350402 and another unit (I believe it to be 350408) were sideswiped by an out of gauge crane being dragged by GBRf, possibly due to an unlatched door. Scratches and dents down one side, time for repairs being planned but bearing in mind 9 are needed for daily diagrams, that won't be easy.

Although, I have heard two others had a bump at Ardwick, not sure on that one though. (350405 has scratches so could be one involved)

I think you are right about 408; travelled on it Thursday and noticed a large scrape on the "A" coach.

The 350 woes continued on Sunday when I believe a double set got tangled up in the OHL at Kirknewton, losing both pantographs in the process, and closing the line from Carstairs Junction to Edinburgh for many hours.

With the number of failures, and delays, I guess many people who travel must be wishing the Anglo Scottish services were still being worked by 185s!

 

[Pumbaa]

One set involved was released back to traffic last week, the other was expected to do so imminently. The damage was largely superficial.

I'd hazard a few incidents are largely due to staff still getting familiar with new traction, and other problems are being highlighted purely because we're watching them closely.

 

[Class377/5]

I think you are right about 408; travelled on it Thursday and noticed a large scrape on the "A" coach.

The 350 woes continued on Sunday when I believe a double set got tangled up in the OHL at Kirknewton, losing both pantographs in the process, and closing the line from Carstairs Junction to Edinburgh for many hours.

With the number of failures, and delays, I guess many people who travel must be wishing the Anglo Scottish services were still being worked by 185s!

There's only been one issue that would have only affected electric units, the units damaged from collision would have still happened with a 185!

 

[Silverlinky]

There's only been one issue that would have only affected electric units, the units damaged from collision would have still happened with a 185!

From what I've heard that isn't true, as the 350's were stabled on the depot and it was the fact that the units are longer which left them overhanging the road in a position where they could be swiped by something else.

 

[Class377/5]

From what I've heard that isn't true, as the 350's were stabled on the depot and it was the fact that the units are longer which left them overhanging the road in a position where they could be swiped by something else.

The depot roads are long enough so its staff error, not something you can claim can only happen because they are electric units.

 

[harz99]

There's only been one issue that would have only affected electric units, the units damaged from collision would have still happened with a 185!

Door interlock problems; units that either don't "talk" to each other when coupled or lose their "talking" ability en route, pantograph and other problems that necessitate uncoupling units and leaving one behind and so on are a lot more than one issue.

Yes, some of the problems MAY be down to staff not being familiar with the stock, however the stock is not new on our railways, so it surely is not outwith the owners to sort the problems asap which does not seem to be happening.

 

[Class377/5]

Door interlock problems; units that either don't "talk" to each other when coupled or lose their "talking" ability en route, pantograph and other problems that necessitate uncoupling units and leaving one behind and so on are a lot more than one issue.

Yes, some of the problems MAY be down to staff not being familiar with the stock, however the stock is not new on our railways, so it surely is not outwith the owners to sort the problems asap which does not seem to be happening.

Show me one train builder that hasn't had the same issues. Also I state my comments were over another posters belief this wouldn't have happened with DMU unit.

 

[Domh245]

Yes, some of the problems MAY be down to staff not being familiar with the stock, however the stock is not new on our railways, so it surely is not outwith the owners to sort the problems asap which does not seem to be happening.

Unfortunately, the people who are familiar with this stock in terms of maintainence are all based in the midlands, whilst this stock is based in Manchester. Whilst staff can be trained, and no doubt, senior men from the midland depots made a couple of trips to ardwick to help with training, training is only good for so much - experience is what is needed - the 350s are a whole different kettle o fish to the 185s

 

[harz99]

Unfortunately, the people who are familiar with this stock in terms of maintainence are all based in the midlands, whilst this stock is based in Manchester. Whilst staff can be trained, and no doubt, senior men from the midland depots made a couple of trips to ardwick to help with training, training is only good for so much - experience is what is needed - the 350s are a whole different kettle o fish to the 185s

I was actually thinking more of train crew familiarity than depot staff.

I also said "owners" of this stock, not the operators. Clearly there are problems which I would expect the ROSCO in conjunction with Siemens as the manufacturer to be sorting out. Surely all new stock still comes with a warranty period?

 

[Starmill]

I'd hazard a few incidents are largely due to staff still getting familiar with new traction, and other problems are being highlighted purely because we're watching them closely.

I'm curious as to what problems are causing service issues just because they are being watched closely? Or is it a case of over-caution?

 

[91103eastcoast]

Are there any Manchester - Scotland services which are still booked for a class 185?

 

[ECML180]

I'm curious as to what problems are causing service issues just because they are being watched closely? Or is it a case of over-caution?

Not so much that watching them causes problems, but it means things are noticed that are otherwise overlooked.

Try looking at how clean your car is when you walk past it, looks ok, but then look more closely at the wheel rims/hubcaps, lights & skirt and all of a sudden the dirt is more noticeable!

 

[JonathanH]

Are there any Manchester - Scotland services which are still booked for a class 185?

These ones on a Saturday because they couple to Windermere / Barrow service.

1M94 0907 Glasgow Central / 1040 Windermere to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34287/2014/06/21/advanced

1S61 1300 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central / Barrow
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34637/2014/06/21/advanced

1M92 1700 Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34275/2014/06/21/advanced

On a Sunday

1S56 1200 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34632/2014/06/22/advanced

1M91 1612 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34267/2014/06/22/advanced

This diagram appears to start with a Barrow service and end with one to Hull.

All electric on Monday to Thursday but two diesel diagrams on a Friday

Diagram 1
1S35 0700 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34615/2014/06/27/advanced

1M96 1109 Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34294/2014/06/27/advanced

1S71 1500 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34644/2014/06/27/advanced

Diagram 2
1S38 0725 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34617/2014/06/27/advanced

1M97 1212 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34297/2014/06/27/advanced

1S75 1600 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34647/2014/06/27/advanced

1M94 2014 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34285/2014/06/27/advanced

A third diagram is timed as a diesel train but appears booked as a pair of 350s from the diagrams posted elsewhere.

1S32 0558 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34612/2014/06/27/advanced

1M95 1008 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34290/2014/06/27/advanced

1S66 1400 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34640/2014/06/27/advanced

1M93 1813 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34280/2014/06/27/advanced

 

[Class 170101]

According to Realtime trains 1M90 is also timed as a DMU.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34265/2014/06/23/advanced

I would venture a guess this is if the train is diverted off wires around Glasgow.

 

[91103eastcoast]

These ones on a Saturday because they couple to Windermere / Barrow service.

1M94 0907 Glasgow Central / 1040 Windermere to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34287/2014/06/21/advanced

1S61 1300 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central / Barrow
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34637/2014/06/21/advanced

1M92 1700 Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34275/2014/06/21/advanced

On a Sunday

1S56 1200 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34632/2014/06/22/advanced

1M91 1612 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34267/2014/06/22/advanced

This diagram appears to start with a Barrow service and end with one to Hull.

All electric on Monday to Thursday but two diesel diagrams on a Friday

Diagram 1
1S35 0700 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34615/2014/06/27/advanced

1M96 1109 Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34294/2014/06/27/advanced

1S71 1500 Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34644/2014/06/27/advanced

Diagram 2
1S38 0725 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34617/2014/06/27/advanced

1M97 1212 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34297/2014/06/27/advanced

1S75 1600 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34647/2014/06/27/advanced

1M94 2014 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34285/2014/06/27/advanced

A third diagram is timed as a diesel train but appears booked as a pair of 350s from the diagrams posted elsewhere.

1S32 0558 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34612/2014/06/27/advanced

1M95 1008 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34290/2014/06/27/advanced

1S66 1400 Manchester Airport to Edinburgh
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34640/2014/06/27/advanced

1M93 1813 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34280/2014/06/27/advanced

Thank you very much.

 

[harz99]

When I passed Carstairs going north at about 0750 on Wednesday two 350/4 units (presumably the two in the OHL incident last Sunday) were parked up dead in sidings - couldn't see which ones.

The 1700 MIA - GLC was a single 185 unit this evening vice 350.

 

[Philip]

I would have thought the doubled up 185 diagram on Fridays (07:25 and 16:00 Edinburgh services off the Airport) would be routed via Bolton with a stop there considering it is booked as a 6-coach diagram all day. The issue of local passengers over-crowding the train not being as much of an issue as if it was a single unit.

 

[harz99]

I would have thought the doubled up 185 diagram on Fridays (07:25 and 16:00 Edinburgh services off the Airport) would be routed via Bolton with a stop there considering it is booked as a 6-coach diagram all day. The issue of local passengers over-crowding the train not being as much of an issue as if it was a single unit.

More trouble than its worth for one day a week.

 

[harz99]

Sadly it seems what may be another 350/4 failure, between Lockerbie and Carlisle, has resulted in massive delay and inconvenience to both pax and other services this morning.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34283/2014/06/28/advanced

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sadly it seems what may be another 350/4 failure, between Lockerbie and Carlisle, has resulted in massive delay and inconvenience to both pax and other services this morning.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34283/2014/06/28/advanced

They need reversible signalling on the WCML north of Preston for this sort of thing.
Happens too often (usually a freight).

 

[harz99]

And this morning at least two workings on Anglo Scottish are 185s; 0725 ex MIA and 0907 ex GLC. And both running pretty much to time.

I wonder how many 350/4s are unserviceable?

 

[chris89]

I believe it was a 350/4 decided to breakdown. At/ near Haymarket P4. Since my VT service had to go around via Millerhill? Then rejoin the line at Slateford. Also we had to do a extra stop at Lockerbie.

 

[harz99]

I believe it was a 350/4 decided to breakdown. At/ near Haymarket P4. Since my VT service had to go around via Millerhill? Then rejoin the line at Slateford. Also we had to do a extra stop at Lockerbie.

This one:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34282/2014/06/30/advanced


Anyone know what was wrong?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

0812 Edinburgh-Manchester Airport (1M93) was cancelled at Preston today because of "a problem with the traction equipment".
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G34282/2014/06/30/advanced
It waited 60 minutes at Haymarket, where they must have fixed the problem.
The return service (1200 ex Airport, 1S56) started from Preston to get the diagram back on track.
The unit seems to have lost time on both legs.

 

[Class172]

I saw my first glimpse of the 350/4 at Glasgow Central yesterday — the livery is certainly very garish, I'm not sure I like it.

 

[harz99]

The return service (1200 ex Airport, 1S56) started from Preston to get the diagram back on track.
The unit seems to have lost time on both legs.

Also lost time on its return from EDB at 1612 arriving MIA 2001, some 14' late and 1 minute after its next departure time. A quick turnaround saw departure from MIA a few minutes late and eventually arrived at EDB 8' early!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Recent briefings suggest some 350/3s are going to be arriving at Ardwick soon to bolster the 350/4 fleet due to reliability issues and to provide additional capacity for the Commonwealth Games.

One of the ones that failed recently was fairly major and apparently is a component that has never failed before in the UK so they don't have the parts nor equipment to fix it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Back to the factory then? thats going to fairly screw things over, thank goodness for the /3s! Looking forward to diagrams using the latter, I can bash one now and not waste time in the midlands finding one! In all seriousness though, the point as I understand it of these units being built to the old spec was mainly for compatibility at LM but also so they'd work out the box and be easy for TPE. Not the case it would seem?