'New tube for London' - Thoughts?

[waterboo]

What do we think of the new tube for London - Siemens concept.

I think the interior is very nice. The seats look comfy.
The only nitters are that a little more colour could be used in the interior. Slightly larger windows and LESS lighting.

Otherwise, these are fairly trivial things.

However, the exterior is abosolute garbage ewwww.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The main exterior I think is fine, the cab ends look ugly though

 

[Diplodicus]

I hope the use windows at the ends to enable one to see into the next coach. It makes travel safer (if there is any time now when the tube is "quiet?).

 

[hassaanhc]

I hope the use windows at the ends to enable one to see into the next coach. It makes travel safer (if there is any time now when the tube is "quiet?).

They are set to have wide gangways similar to the S Stock.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The main exterior I think is fine, the cab ends look ugly though

It's a toilet roll on wheels.

 

[ianhr]

Cab end is ridiculous, this must be a joke, everything else is fine. There isn't really much that can be done within the restricted loading gauge that was not sorted out >75 years ago. The 1938 stock is a classic of good industrial design and no one has been able to improve on it. Once an optimal design within tight restraints has been achieved it is best to stick to it and avoid silly fashions. Style is timeless whereas fashion becomes horribly dated within a short period, that is why the 1938 stock is still aesthetically pleasing and does not look dated.

Eliminating all transverse seats was retrograde, although longitudinal seats increase standing room some transverse seats should have been retained for long journeys e.g. to Epping, Uxbridge, Heathrow etc.

Oh, and can we please have some colour other than purple for grab rails!

 

[317 forever]

The internal colouring suggests that it colud have a connection with Northern Rail!

 

[Abpj17]

seats do look comfy

cynically I guess smaller windows, bigger adverts?

and the sticking out bit by the wheelchair space looks like lots of people will bump into it etc.

 

[Class 33]

The circular cab ends looks ugly! And the ultra bright white lighting looks horrendous! Far too bright! Why does modern day buses, trains, etc have to have such ultra bright lighting?! This is more the sort of interior lighting I would far prefer! https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/5850670495/in/set-72157631540370620

As for the seating, I can't really tell from looking at that photo if the seats would be comfy or not!

 

[ianhr]

The circular cab ends looks ugly! And the ultra bright white lighting looks horrendous! Far too bright! Why does modern day buses, trains, etc have to have such ultra bright lighting?! This is more the sort of interior lighting I would far prefer! https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/5850670495/in/set-72157631540370620

As for the seating, I can't really tell from looking at that photo if the seats would be comfy or not!

Yes, everyone interested in tube stock should take a ride on the restored 1938 stock. A couple of years ago I had a conversation with LU staff at Morden during a special run and they all agreed that these were far more comfortable and pleasant trains than any running now. I suggested that more should have been built to the same design and they said that LU had no choice but to buy what the now rather small number of train manufacturing companies (Siemens, Bombardier etc.) were prepared to sell!

Having said that I think the subsurface S stock is rather good, and the 1973 Piccadilly Line stock was ok too until they removed all the transverse seats!

 

[MCR247]

Cab end is ridiculous, this must be a joke, everything else is fine. There isn't really much that can be done within the restricted loading gauge that was not sorted out >75 years ago. The 1938 stock is a classic of good industrial design and no one has been able to improve on it. Once an optimal design within tight restraints has been achieved it is best to stick to it and avoid silly fashions. Style is timeless whereas fashion becomes horribly dated within a short period, that is why the 1938 stock is still aesthetically pleasing and does not look dated.

Thats an opinion, not a fact. IMO the 1938 stock does look dated and most modern designs are a vast improvement on this.

 

[Mojo]

The older trains are also particularly unpleasant in winter! Having taken early morning trains out of the sidings at South Harrow and Northfields they can take a very very long time to warm up! I remember earlier in the year finishing nights and getting on C Stocks at half 5 in the morning; they could be even colder than standing on the platforms!

 

[jon0844]

The circular cab ends looks ugly! And the ultra bright white lighting looks horrendous! Far too bright! Why does modern day buses, trains, etc have to have such ultra bright lighting?! This is more the sort of interior lighting I would far prefer! https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/5850670495/in/set-72157631540370620

As for the seating, I can't really tell from looking at that photo if the seats would be comfy or not!

The Boris buses aren't too bright. In fact, they're very subdued.

And I am sure that if the lighting is LED (or even perhaps OLED?) then you could vary the brightness very easily.

But it's a concept, and hardly anything as shown will stay like that. Bar it having doors, seats etc.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This is more the sort of interior lighting I would far prefer! https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/5850670495/in/set-72157631540370620

Seconded. It's far more pleasant on the eyes and doesn't turn potential villains into featureless silhouettes.

 

[waterboo]

I would not say that the older trains were better in my opinion - when talking operational wise. But in terms of aestics indo agree that certain elements such as dimmer lighting should be kept.


But bygod get rid of the sickening green.

 

[Greenback]

The cab ends are truly awful. But then again, its a means of transport, not an artwork!

 

[Mikey C]

Thats an opinion, not a fact. IMO the 1938 stock does look dated and most modern designs are a vast improvement on this.

I much prefer the 1996 stock on the Northern Line to the 1959 (and 72 Mk1 ) stock it replaced, smoother and more comfortable.

 

[rebmcr]

Quite a bit of info & analysis about this here.

 

[ianhr]

Thats an opinion, not a fact. IMO the 1938 stock does look dated and most modern designs are a vast improvement on this.

Are we not allowed to express opinions on here then?!......you have just gone on to state one of yours!!!!

The original question was asking "what do we think of it"?!

 

[Panda]

I kinda like the round cab design!!!

The interior looks very similar to the Victoria line trains...will these be walk-through trains? I would much rather prefer walk-through trains, but I think they are more difficult to fit through the tight tunnels on the deep level lines?

 

[hassaanhc]

I kinda like the round cab design!!!

The interior looks very similar to the Victoria line trains...will these be walk-through trains? I would much rather prefer walk-through trains, but I think they are more difficult to fit through the tight tunnels on the deep level lines?

Yes they are walkthrough (already mentioned previously :P)


DSCN1485 by hassaanhc, on Flickr

 

[Mutant Lemming]

38 stock seemed more comfortable for the passenger - though a bit cramped for driving and the handbrake could take your fingers off. Best reason to have them back is that they were crew operated and require a guard to operate the doors. It does seem that passenger comfort is the big overall loser with most modern rolling stock - more standing, less seating and less comfortable seats.

 

[Mikey C]

38 stock seemed more comfortable for the passenger - though a bit cramped for driving and the handbrake could take your fingers off. Best reason to have them back is that they were crew operated and require a guard to operate the doors. It does seem that passenger comfort is the big overall loser with most modern rolling stock - more standing, less seating and less comfortable seats.

The S seating isn't bad actually, though the 2009 stock seating is very uncomfortable. But generally most people would prefer to stand on a train than to stand on a platform because they couldn't get on!

 

[Railfan2156]

Love it, but the front end looks like a coke can! I do really like the lighting though, & while the current Piccadilly Line looks narrow, this feels... wide. I love the shape, it will make for good photos when they leave tunnel portals! - (or maybe not, with that cab end:roll.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

The S seating isn't bad actually, though the 2009 stock seating is very uncomfortable. But generally most people would prefer to stand on a train than to stand on a platform because they couldn't get on!

Yes, I suppose 1938 stock is fine for 1938 passenger numbers.

 

[ianhr]

Yes, I suppose 1938 stock is fine for 1938 passenger numbers.

I think during the late 30s and 1940s there was severe overcrowding and they even tried 9-car trains on the Northern Line....one of the reasons the 1938 stock was considered such an advance over the 'Standard stock', which lost seating capacity to the above floor switchgear compartments in the motor cars. By the time most of us old enough to have a memory of the 38 stock on the Northern & Bakerloo Lines in the 50s, 60s and 70s of course you are right, passenger numbers were falling. They were comfy cozy trains though with nice soft lighting, and if anyone felt insecure late at night they could always sit in the last car with the guard.

 

[Railfan2156]

Love it, but the front end looks like a coke can! I do really like the lighting though, & while the current Piccadilly Line looks narrow, this feels... wide. I love the shape, it will make for good photos when they leave tunnel portals! - (or maybe not, with that cab end:roll.

I just realised that, as they are made from recycled alluminium, the front might actually be made of old coke cans.~ Oh, how ironic.~

 

[starrymarkb]

It looks good. I can't see that cab design lasting into production but it's certainly got people's attention which is good for Siemens.

 

[lev441]

Why does no new stock have larger windows? I know that a lot of the tube is underground but the large windows on the 92 stock look so much better in my opinion...

 

[Trafalgar55]

Isn't this the Siemens proposal mock-up?
Agreed the cab end looks awful, like the end of a toothpaste tube.
As regards the interior decor, you'll be lucky to get anything other than grey and grey, perhaps with a bit of dark blue if Siemens have their way. Take a look at the dreadful Siemens Class 350s operated by TPE to Edinburgh!
And don't be fooled by the comfy-looking seats, they will be as hard as wooden bench, but not as comfortable.
(Why are TPE using commuter-standard trains on long haul journeys Manchester Airpot to Edinburgh anyway?)