Easement: doubling back between West Hampstead Thamelink and St Pancras

[lightbulb]

Hello all,

I have an FOR between West Drayton and Luton Airport Parkway, and am making my outward journey now. I have decided to break my journey at West Hampstead, and after lunch, will continue to LTN. As of July 2012, there was an easement (700094) between West Hampstead Thameslink and Luton stating that "Customers may double back between West Hampstead and London St Pancras Stations." Is this easement still in force, and if so, does it apply with my ticket? Also, am I likely to encounter difficulties at the barriers at St Pancras, as I wish to take EMT between STP and LTN?

 

[yorkie]

It still exists.

That use wasn't intended, I'm sure, but the wording appears to allow it. Good luck...

 

[Hadders]

I can't find that easement in the current list.

 

[lightbulb]

It still exists.

That use wasn't intended, I'm sure, but the wording appears to allow it. Good luck...

What would the intended use be?

And how do I prove that I'm allowed to do it? I'd be very surprised if I'm allowed through the barriers without trouble!

 

[bb21]

The barriers cannot stop you, as you could be going north.

 

[Haywain]

The barriers cannot stop you, as you could be going north.

They could - on exit from the low level platforms with the outward portion of the ticket.

 

[OwlMan]

That easement was withdrawn in January 2013

 

[yorkie]

It shows here: http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/easements.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What would the intended use be?

People actually travelling from West Hampstead, at a guess .

It's clearly not intended to allow London - West Hampstead - London - (via West Hampstead) - Luton

 

[Hadders]

There seems to be a different list at this link:

http://iblocks-rg-publication.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/easement_text.pdf

 

[yorkie]

ATOC have left the old version on their website, and uploaded the new one to an unprofessional-looking URL.

Of course, any tickets bought under the old terms, are still bound by the old terms

The whole thing is utterly bonkers anyway.

 

[Hadders]

ATOC have left the old version on their website, and uploaded the new one to an unprofessional-looking URL.

All the links to the pdf's on the routeing guide data page seem to point to unprofessional looking URL's.

The same thing happens with the maps - I can still get the old pdf version by using an old bookmarked link....

 

[lightbulb]

They could - on exit from the low level platforms with the outward portion of the ticket.

Which was my worry, but in the event, both barriers (low level and high level) accepted my ticket. However, at LTN, the barrier rejected my ticket, displaying code 105. Any idea why?

 

[OwlMan]

All the links to the pdf's on the routeing guide data page seem to point to unprofessional looking URL's.

The same thing happens with the maps - I can still get the old pdf version by using an old bookmarked link....

It shows here: http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/files/easements.pdf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People actually travelling from West Hampstead, at a guess .

It's clearly not intended to allow London - West Hampstead - London - (via West Hampstead) - Luton

But using bookmarked links does not take you to the current official list .

All the files have been moved to I-blocks since they took over the contract, just because you can find an old document (that is not linked to their current pages) does not mean it is valid.

This is one of the problems of using links (bookmarks) to link to documents that can change on other websites.

 

[greatkingrat]

What would the intended use be?

And how do I prove that I'm allowed to do it? I'd be very surprised if I'm allowed through the barriers without trouble!

I suspect the intended use is to allow people travelling to north of Bedford to use EM services from St Pancras.

 

[button_boxer]

All the links to the pdf's on the routeing guide data page seem to point to unprofessional looking URL's.

Sloppy. I use Amazon S3 in my work and I know how simple it would be to make them appear as something like rg.atoc.org instead of something-long-and-complicated.amazonaws.com

 

[yorkie]

This is one of the problems of using links (bookmarks) to link to documents that can change on other websites.

Or a Google search!

 

[mattdickinson]

Which was my worry, but in the event, both barriers (low level and high level) accepted my ticket. However, at LTN, the barrier rejected my ticket, displaying code 105. Any idea why?

Code 105 is "Invalid TOC type Ticket". whatever that means..

 

[yorkie]

It means the barriers have not been programmed very well.

This is not uncommon. For example, Leeds station barriers state "Ticket not valid at this location" for a variety of tickets which are valid via Leeds, including West Yorkshire Day Rovers, and even Leeds platform tickets.

 

[Abpj17]

Barriers at Luton used to routinely block my season ticket although it went out to Leagrave.

Am slightly surprised ticket worked for EMT barriers - FCC tickets aren't necessarily valid on EMT.

 

[button_boxer]

Barriers at Luton used to routinely block my season ticket although it went out to Leagrave.

Am slightly surprised ticket worked for EMT barriers - FCC tickets aren't necessarily valid on EMT.

Leagrave to/from London Thameslink tickets are all "any permitted" so they're valid on all operators that run over the relevant route on any services that satisfy the time restrictions. It's fine to take an EMT service from St Pancras to Luton and change there for FCC to Leagrave, or indeed to end your journey at Luton as there's no break-of-journey restriction on season tickets (or any other tickets on this particular flow).

 

[swt_passenger]

Barriers at Luton used to routinely block my season ticket although it went out to Leagrave.

That would be the usual default condition. Barriers do not understand break of journey unless someone takes the trouble to add the necessary information.

They certainly cannot work it out on the fly.

 

[lightbulb]

That would be the usual default condition. Barriers do not understand break of journey unless someone takes the trouble to add the necessary information.

They certainly cannot work it out on the fly.

Luton Airport Parkway barriers are programmed to accept tickets to/from Luton. If finishing short, they will swallow the ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Barriers at Luton used to routinely block my season ticket although it went out to Leagrave.

Am slightly surprised ticket worked for EMT barriers - FCC tickets aren't necessarily valid on EMT.

This ticket is not routed 'FCC only' therefore it's an inter-available ticket, not an FCC Only ticket.

However FCC only tickets (for other flows) will surely be accepted at the barriers at Luton.

 

[Haywain]

However FCC only tickets (for other flows) will surely be accepted at the barriers at Luton.

I'm not sure that they would. The barriers are probably programmed only to accept tickets to Luton (and perhaps one or two minor local variations), so anything else would be rejected.

That would be the usual default condition. Barriers do not understand break of journey unless someone takes the trouble to add the necessary information.

They certainly cannot work it out on the fly.

Programming break of journey information is horribly complex, and has to be changed for each station. Not only that, if BoJ is allowed, then all the additional ticket types that may not otherwise be available at that station have to be allowed. For the amount that it is used, it is generally easier not to bother than to risk getting it wrong.