Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[IanXC]

A recent set of TfGMC sub-committee minutes indicated that the Off-Peak ticket restrictions on Northern would apply from 1600 to 1830 but does anyone have any further details?

I overheard a guard explaining evening peak restrictions on a duo ticket the other day - I might be wrong but I can't recall these existing previously. I presume duos are an unregulated product - therefore allowing immediate imposition if evening peak restrictions?

A little bit of research suggests that duos into/out of major cities now carry an evening restriction of "not valid between 1601-1759". Presumably this gives a good indication of what Northern intend for September?

 

[pemma]

I overheard a guard explaining evening peak restrictions on a duo ticket the other day - I might be wrong but I can't recall these existing previously. I presume duos are an unregulated product - therefore allowing immediate imposition if evening peak restrictions?

A little bit of research suggests that duos into/out of major cities now carry an evening restriction of "not valid between 1601-1759". Presumably this gives a good indication of what Northern intend for September?

Duo tickets restrictions vary between lines. For instance, the Hull-York line has no evening peak restrictions while Hull-Sheffield does have evening peak restrictions. Some North West Duo tickets have had a 16:01-17:59 restriction since First North Western introduced them.

Full restrictions are here: http://www.northernrail.org/tickets/Duo+tickets

 

[IanXC]

Duo tickets restrictions vary between lines. For instance, the Hull-York line has no evening peak restrictions while Hull-Sheffield does have evening peak restrictions. Some North West Duo tickets have had a 16:01-17:59 restriction since First North Western introduced them.

Full restrictions are here: http://www.northernrail.org/tickets/Duo+tickets

I've not found any restrictions other than not 1601-1759.

What i meant was, has that always been the case, or is this a recent change which might show us what Northern intentions are?

 

[pemma]

I've not found any restrictions other than not 1601-1759.

What i meant was, has that always been the case, or is this a recent change which might show us what Northern intentions are?

Like I said the 16:01-17:59 restriction is something that First North Western came up with when they introduced Duo tickets. Northern have obviously introduced Duo tickets on to former ATN routes, they've also altered which stations do and don't have the restrictions on several occasions. For instance, First North Western applied the 16:01-17:59 restriction to departures from Chester on race days only but for simplicity Northern lifted that restriction.

 

[tom1649]

Will this affect GM Rail Rangers and Wayfarers then? If so, will a more expensive version be made available for those of us who wish to travel during the evening peak?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Basically the answer is that we don't know until Northern release the details. Another unknown is GM Over 60s passes.

 

[TOCDriver]

Basically the answer is that we don't know until Northern release the details. Another unknown is GM Over 60s passes.

You can bet your bottom dollar that they will be restricted since they are a restricted ticket in the first instance and are a commonly issued ticket. Would the ALR or NW Rover be restricted in the evening though, that would be interesting to find out since they have slightly less restrictions in the morning peak. Personally, I can't see them being restricted within the evening because they are still quite a rare issued ticket (and expensive with a large coverage area).

 

[Merseysider]

Would the ALR or NW Rover be restricted in the evening though, that would be interesting to find out since they have slightly less restrictions in the morning peak. Personally, I can't see them being restricted within the evening because they are still quite a rare issued ticket (and expensive with a large coverage area).

It would take a lot more than Northern introducing evening peak restrictions on day tickets before these type of rovers/rangers also became similarly restricted. The ALR peak restrictions would certainly not be for Northern to decide.

 

[TOCDriver]

It would take a lot more than Northern introducing evening peak restrictions on day tickets before these type of rovers/rangers also became similarly restricted. The ALR peak restrictions would certainly not be for Northern to decide.

True. It would also render them almost useless with the 08:45 restriction on them too.

 

[tom1649]

I expect they will be restricted. I suppose it's too much to hope that there'll be a peak time version introduced in the same way you can buy an anytime Travelcard in London.

 

[TOCDriver]

I expect they will be restricted. I suppose it's too much to hope that there'll be a peak time version introduced in the same way you can buy an anytime Travelcard in London.

They are very expensive tickets with large areas. Restricting them to more or less 7 hours a day would make them much less attractive to purchase. And like I have said before, they are not a commonly issued ticket so restricting them further would only have negative consequences for their viability and do absolutely nothing with regard to easing the overcrowding in the late afternoon peak. The people you need to hit are the pensioners with their free passes. 7 hours to get your shopping done and have a cup of tea is plenty of time in the GM area.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think most rovers would be unaffected because of the price and area they cover, but maybe cheaper local ones (GM Rail Ranger for example) might be, though even having to buy these, instead of an Off-Peak Day Return, would be an increase in revenue, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

[yorkie]

I expect they will be restricted. I suppose it's too much to hope that there'll be a peak time version introduced in the same way you can buy an anytime Travelcard in London.

There's some confusion here!

Most Rovers/Rangers are already restricted "in the same way" as an off-peak Travelcard, in that there is a morning peak restriction, but no restrictions in the evening.

 

[TOCDriver]

There's some confusion here!

Most Rovers/Rangers are already restricted "in the same way" as an off-peak Travelcard, in that there is a morning peak restriction, but no restrictions in the evening.

I agree, but your NW and AL Rovers can be used from 08:45 onwards whereas something like your common GM ranger can only be used after 09:30. I expect the likes of the GM rail ranger to have evening restrictions put on them but I do not expect the rover tickets to have evening restrictions. It would defy common sense if they had.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

but maybe cheaper local ones (GM Rail Ranger for example) might be, though even having to buy these, instead of an Off-Peak Day Return, would be an increase in revenue, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

That's a good point. Will be interesting to see what TfGM does about these rangers. That wouldn't be Northern's decision, would it?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Staff Brief came out today, the following changes will happen from 7th September 2014:

Off-Peak Day tickets for travel wholly within the South Yorkshire area will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel wholly within the TfGM area, GM Rail Rangers and Daysavers (TM, TB, TBM) will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays). These restrictions will also appear on routes into the TfGM ticketing area from Alderley Edge, Burscough Bridge, Buxton, New Mills Central and Warrington (Bank Quay and Central)

GM Evening Rangers and Cheap Evening Returns will be withdrawn.

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel wholly within the West Yorkshire area, WY Day Rovers, WY Family Rovers and WY Train Day Rovers will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays) These restrictions will also appear on routes into West Yorkshire from Skipton and Knaresborough.

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel on the Hexham-Newcastle line (but not wholly within the Nexus ticketing area) will not be valid from 1601 to 1759 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

 

[Merseysider]

GM Evening Rangers and Cheap Evening Returns will be withdrawn.

Time to get some emails sent off I think

 

[brompton rail]

Staff Brief came out today, the following changes will happen from 7th September 2014:

Off-Peak Day tickets for travel wholly within the South Yorkshire area will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).
.

Wow, that should get the SY Pensioner "Free Riders" incandescent! Great!

PS, although I'm a SY Pensioner I never use 'Off Peak Day Returns' as the start time is too late, but instead use the Daytripper Gold ticket at £7.50 for bus, tram and train, valid all day.

 

[bb21]

That's some hefty restrictions.

Stealth fare rise anyone?

 

[Tetchytyke]

WY Day Rovers, WY Family Rovers and WY Train Day Rovers will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays)

Now that's an interesting development, given the similarity these tickets have to TfL Travelcards...

I think I'll be asking WYPTE just what they think they're playing at...

 

[greatkingrat]

Staff Brief came out today, the following changes will happen from 7th September 2014:

Off-Peak Day tickets for travel wholly within the South Yorkshire area will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

Does that mean the journey may not start between 1601 and 1829, or that no travel at all is permitted between 1601 and 1829?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Does that mean the journey may not start between 1601 and 1829, or that no travel at all is permitted between 1601 and 1829?

The wording in the brief is "timed to depart".

 

[Deerfold]

Now that's an interesting development, given the similarity these tickets have to TfL Travelcards...

I think I'll be asking WYPTE just what they think they're playing at...

Day Rovers? That's an irritant. Especially as I have a stock I have already bought. Can they change the conditions in retrospect?

Wyorks restrictions used to be very confusing until they were (genuinely) simplyfied so all off-peak tickets (including day rovers) were valid after 0930. Looks like a giant step backwards.

Wonder when they're going to start telling people. My wife and I are off on a family day rover at 1630 today - if it wasn't valid we'd probably be driving.

 

[Moonshot]

Staff Brief came out today, the following changes will happen from 7th September 2014:

Off-Peak Day tickets for travel wholly within the South Yorkshire area will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel wholly within the TfGM area, GM Rail Rangers and Daysavers (TM, TB, TBM) will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays). These restrictions will also appear on routes into the TfGM ticketing area from Alderley Edge, Burscough Bridge, Buxton, New Mills Central and Warrington (Bank Quay and Central)

GM Evening Rangers and Cheap Evening Returns will be withdrawn.

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel wholly within the West Yorkshire area, WY Day Rovers, WY Family Rovers and WY Train Day Rovers will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays) These restrictions will also appear on routes into West Yorkshire from Skipton and Knaresborough.

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel on the Hexham-Newcastle line (but not wholly within the Nexus ticketing area) will not be valid from 1601 to 1759 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

At last .......about time we started cutting out some of these options.....

 

[Emyr]

GM Evening Rangers and Cheap Evening Returns will be withdrawn.

At last .......about time we started cutting out some of these options.....

You must really hate your customers.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Wonder how many guards will be getting assaulted in september explaining to the people going out at night that the ticket price has just doubled. Ridiculous taking away evening rangers and cheap evening returns.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You must really hate your customers.

I think he does

 

[Moonshot]

You must really hate your customers.

Nope......simply looking at this as a way of making ticketing more efficient.....

But hey , as has been stated on the " North isnt getting a good deal thread " , we want a railway but are not prepared to pay the true cost of a ticket.

 

[pemma]

Wonder how many guards will be getting assaulted in september explaining to the people going out at night that the ticket price has just doubled. Ridiculous taking away evening rangers and cheap evening returns.

It would be stupid to have a peak price for a train departing on one route at 18:29 and a half off-peak price for one on another route departing at 18:31 but I agree doubling of price overnight will not go down well.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Also a lot of night time services will be empty. Stupid idea imho

 

[Moonshot]

Also a lot of night time services will be empty. Stupid idea imho

I rather think that it wont impact at all.............£ 3.80 off peak return Bolton to Manchester isnt going to put anyone off going into town for a few beers priced at £4 a pint.

 

[175001]

The evening tickets have been about since I started back in 08!

This will be a shock to the system to many who buy them!