Virgin / Stagecoach win East Coast

[Spamcan81]

They have been in a rush to run as many franchise awards as possible so that as few franchises as possible will expire during the next Government - the objective being to spike any attempt at renationalisation.

If a new government was hell bent on renationalisation then an act of parliament a la Transport Act 1947 would do the trick. Would cost a few bob though.

 

[Starmill]

There's no need to cry, they're replacing the East Coast Rewards scheme with Nectar points.

I think that's all the more reason to cry really. Nectar points are very close to worthless...
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It doesn't sound good from a fares perspective. Cut in Anytime... Probably paid for by a rise in the cheapest advances.

 

[markydh]

This is just as suggested in the SLC2 in the ITT though, so surely all bidders would have included it anyway? In summary the '3rd Newcastle' service was defined in the relevant table as '44 calls per day' but it was then explained in the detail that 7 of these trains could divert to Middlesborough, which appears to be the option taken up. So not quite the same as a standard 3 tph all day at Newcastle?

Nonetheless, the eventual agreed timetable will be interesting to see when it comes out...

Well the DfT Twitter feed is also reporting it as 3 trains an hour from 2019 so it could well be that the 7 Boro services are in addition rather than instead of.

 

[DaiGog]

Well the DfT Twitter feed is also reporting it as 3 trains an hour from 2019 so it could well be that the 7 Boro services are in addition rather than instead of.

I suspect we will see some portioned workings with 5-car / bi-mode trains in traffic, splitting at Darlington from the third Newcastle service.

 

[Carlisle]

Although the reason it wasn't privatised sooner was because of the WC fiasco which the Tories blamed on the system they inherited from Labour.

Wouldn't DfT/government have demonstrated far more public competence by re running the Previously flawed West coast bidding scheme first ,, by shelving that and extending Virgins contract just further demonstrated the whole extent of how they had been totally out manoeuvred by Bransons corporate lawyers

 

[Metobusfan]

It depends how you perceive the market.



Stagecoach own the East Coast franchise, the West Coast franchise and the East Midlands franchise, meaning finding a competitor train company is a challenge.



So you decide to take the coach. Guess who owns Megabus?

No different than GoVia running southern South Eastern and Thameslink

 

[Deerfold]

If it means a 3 hour train journey becomes a 6 hour bus/train trek then I don't think I'll bother with Megatrain tickets.

Megatrain, not megabusplus.

Megatrain offer tickets on the Eest Coast and EMCL - the only reason megabus plus is so long is they want to get to a station served by EMT.

This may well spell the end of megabusplus - the current routes at least. Why would they run 1-3 a day from Bradford/Hull/Huddersfield once their direct trains start.

 

[telstarbox]

Regarding the Rewards scheme I've got a reply on Twitter:

Me: @eastcoastuk Is there a deadline for using up East Coast Rewards points before the franchise transfer?
EC: @_charlie123 Hi Gerry. The Rewards Scheme is expected to transfer to the new owner. More details to come at a later point.

 

[ainsworth74]

We've a thread on what's going to happen to Rewards here so I suggest anyone wanting to discuss what's going to happen to Rewards (and how annoying it is that it's going ) does so on that thread. That will leave this one clear for more general discussion on the franchise award.

Thanks

 

[Deerfold]

We've a thread on what's going to happen to Rewards here so I suggest anyone wanting to discuss what's going to happen to Rewards (and how annoying it is that it's going ) does so on that thread. That will leave this one clear for more general discussion on the franchise award.

Thanks

Is it possible to reopen the other for discussion about what the press were reporting rather than that cluttering up here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No different than GoVia running southern South Eastern and Thameslink

And in any case there is also National Express. OK, a risk of a Stagecoach company having the contract for that route, but they have reduced them somewhat in number now they have Megabus.

Neil

 

[Oswyntail]

They have been in a rush to run as many franchise awards as possible so that as few franchises as possible will expire during the next Government - the objective being to spike any attempt at renationalisation.

You do, of course, have evidence to support that statement (other than some anti-Tory rumour machine).

 

[ac6000cw]

They have been in a rush to run as many franchise awards as possible so that as few franchises as possible will expire during the next Government - the objective being to spike any attempt at renationalisation.

Sound like a good plan - been there, done that, don't want nationalisation back again, thanks.

It's bad enough that NR is now directly under the thumb of the Treasury, without bringing back more of BR's financing problems....

 

[Kettledrum]

Last time Virgin were involved in a bid for the East Coast, they made a big thing about wanting to build new track to speed up journey times.

This time, in all the press and hype, there's no new exciting proposals about the new private sector franchisee investing in new infrastructure like Chilton did.

There is some investment in new station canopies, but that's nor particularly ground breaking in any sense of the word.

I can't believe that the reason no line/track capacity improvements have come out of this process is because the East Coast infrastructure is already so good, so I conclude it's because the DfTs aim was to maximise their own income stream.

 

[Hellfire]

If Virgin / Stagecoach aren't awarded an extension when the eight years is up, will Beardy and his cronies go running to the courts, like they did with the West Coast a couple of years ago ?

They will if DFT cock up the whole process again as they did with WCML. Branson was perfectly justified as was proud by the result. Are you saying he should have let them get away with it?

 

[infobleep]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30222458

The RMT union called the return of the franchise to the private sector "a national disgrace".

So do people think this award is a national disgrace?

I do think East Coast did a good job so wouldn't have minded them continuing. That aside, I do find on the whole South West Trains to be good. A lot of problems are out of their control such as the weather or infrastructure. South West Trains actually wanted to redo Clapham Junction to enable more trains around 2004 I believe. It didn't happen and I forget the reason now.

Given that Stagecoach own 90‰ of this and South West Trains offers free WiFi on some of their services, will they make the wifi free on the new East Coast service?

With regards of staff travel, I suggest, in jest, that they offer 90‰ discounts to Stagecoach staff and 10‰ discounts to Virgin staff.

 

[samuelmorris]

They've already pledged free WiFi on the new services - I support this, though I often find I don't need it these days.

 

[Geezertronic]

I end to ignore comments that offer no value to the conversation. Having a negative view of this is, of course, a persons right but once they start with comments such as "Beardy" or "National Disgrace" comments and comments such as "they've only still got West Coast because they sued" then their views are of no value to me. If you're going to have a negative view, at least have a decent reason for it :roll:

 

[shinkansen1966]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30222458So do people think this award is a national disgrace?

Because some of the profits which the new operator will make will go to Stagecoach and Virgin shareholders. At the moment, all the profits go to the public purse.

And the new operator is going to replace the East Coast Rewards scheme with a lousy Nectar scheme. Stagecoach and the DfT have confirmed this.

On top of this, advance purchase fares (which are unregulated) will see inflation busting increases. (Well somebody's got to pay for the new Hitachi trains). And there will be further restrictions to walk-on fares. (Well somebody's got to pay for the new Hitachi trains)

 

[infobleep]

I end to ignore comments that offer no value to the conversation. Having a negative view of this is, of course, a persons right but once they start with comments such as "Beardy" or "National Disgrace" comments and comments such as "they've only still got West Coast because they sued" then their views are of no value to me. If you're going to have a negative view, at least have a decent reason for it :roll:

I wonder if the RMT union have a decent reason? I imagine they would say they do.
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Because some of the profits which the new operator will make will go to Stagecoach and Virgin shareholders. At the moment, all the profits go to the public purse.

And the new operator is going to replace the East Coast Rewards scheme with a lousy Nectar scheme. Stagecoach and the DfT have confirmed this.

On top of this, advance purchase fares (which are unregulated) will see inflation busting increases. (Well somebody's got to pay for the new Hitachi trains). And there will be further restrictions to walk-on fares. (Well somebody's got to pay for the new Hitachi trains)

Where ha e they announced additional restrictions to walk on fares? Or are you saying what you think will happen?

 

[Geezertronic]

I wonder if the RMT union have a decent reason? I imagine they would say they do.

From what I have heard and read, Mick Cash is simply reading from the Bob Crow book of press quotes. Only time will tell if the award descends into a "National Disgrace". No doubt there will be teething problems during the IEP rollout as there usually is when any new make of train comes in, whether they will be the fault of Hitatchi, VTEC or someone else is anyones guess

 

[bb21]

I end to ignore comments that offer no value to the conversation. Having a negative view of this is, of course, a persons right but once they start with comments such as "Beardy" or "National Disgrace" comments and comments such as "they've only still got West Coast because they sued" then their views are of no value to me. If you're going to have a negative view, at least have a decent reason for it :roll:

What is wrong with the term "beardy"? I personally use it as a term of endearment.

I'll give you the others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And the new operator is going to replace the East Coast Rewards scheme with a lousy Nectar scheme. Stagecoach and the DfT have confirmed this.

I'd rather they did away with it entirely and just kept fares lower, personally. Petrol stations learnt that ages ago. I expect the cost of a Nectar based scheme is low.

On top of this, advance purchase fares (which are unregulated) will see inflation busting increases. (Well somebody's got to pay for the new Hitachi trains). And there will be further restrictions to walk-on fares. (Well somebody's got to pay for the new Hitachi trains)

Somebody would have to pay for the new Hitachi trains if EC remained in the public sector.

Neil

 

[Clip]

What is wrong with the term "beardy"? I personally use it as a term of endearment.

Even to women

 

[Geezertronic]

I'd rather they did away with it entirely and just kept fares lower, personally. Petrol stations learnt that ages ago. I expect the cost of a Nectar based scheme is low.

I do agree with that. Being a long term user of BP, my Nectar card is full of points but of negligible value. Our local petrol station changed to Esso recently and the wife has got me to use a Tesco Clubcard which Esso award points on and it's turning out to be much better value already

What is wrong with the term "beardy"? I personally use it as a term of endearment

I guess it's like calling someone Spotty, Fatty, Shorty, Lanky etc... it's very much something that I see as a dig - it's not something you would (or should) say face to face

 

[Carlisle]

They will if DFT cock up the whole process again as they did with WCML. Branson was perfectly justified as was proud by the result. Are you saying he should have let them get away with it?

It never went to court !, so it's far from absolutely certain Bransons actions were totally correct and justified and watertight

 

[PG]

What is wrong with the term "beardy"? I personally use it as a term of endearment.

I guess it's like calling someone Spotty, Fatty, Shorty, Lanky etc... it's very much something that I see as a dig - it's not something you would (or should) say face to face

Reminds me of an incident at school where someone running slightly late entered the room, quickly looked about then loudly asked "Where's old pubic face?" at just the same time as the teacher being enquired about returned from an adjoining room

Somehow I think "beardy" would have been seen in a much better light

 

[387star]

I reckon the Mk4s would look quite nice with the red and blue Pendolino interior. I hope they replace the seat cushions with a different design, though - the sloped-forward base gives me back issues as it has no under-thigh support whatsoever.

Neil

The current internal scheme is luckily quite neutral

Makes you wonder when these trains were painted grey if virgin was always the preferred choice

No point doing up the interiors if they are of to be replaced soon

Excellent news virgin are a top rail operator... They have come a long long way from their rather sketchy beginnings and are now very trusted

 

[shinkansen1966]

Where ha e they announced additional restrictions to walk on fares? Or are you saying what you think will happen?

Further restrictions on walk-on fares are going to happen.

Northern Rail have just done this on their evening services out of Leeds and Manchester.
First did this on their Thameslink and Great Western operations
Virgin did it on their West Coast mainline service

 

[Mike@Raileasy]

Please see figs below from ITV.com.

That pax figure is about a 10% increase over 5 years.

Revenue is up 12%, the fare increases would have accounted for that.

Investment is miniscule.

Virgin/Stagecoach are saying they'll return more than 3 times as much (in premium payments) albeit over 3 years longer.

Passenger journeys have increased by 1.1m in the past five years.
Revenue has increased from £581.3m in 2008-2009 to £652.6m to 2013-14.
East Coast invested £48m since 2009.
The taxpayer has received £1 billion back in premium payments and profits.