ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December

[petersi]

Signaling diagram on opentraintimes shows 6 trains at Kings cross not all may be East coast

 

[Rich McLean]

Not sure that this is the correct move, XC need as many trains as possible, as they'll have all of their own passengers as well as passengers trying to get to London from both EC and WC destinations (changing at Derby, Sheffield, Birmingham or Reading),
Although I'm not sure exactly how many trains are trapped at Kings Cross, I'd imagine that reworking diagrams, taking into account earlier turn arounds and reducing turn around time could reduce the number of units EC need.

Looking at that, XC can only let one set out on hire, as 3 are allocated. (1V46, 1V52 & 1V54)

 

[Suraggu]

Not sure that this is the correct move, XC need as many trains as possible, as they'll have all of their own passengers as well as passengers trying to get to London from both EC and WC destinations (changing at Derby, Sheffield, Birmingham or Reading),
Although I'm not sure exactly how many trains are trapped at Kings Cross, I'd imagine that reworking diagrams, taking into account earlier turn arounds and reducing turn around time could reduce the number of units EC need.

3 or 4. If EC are to run a reduced service (say hourly Leeds & EDB) then yes less sets will be needed.

 

[Qwerty133]

Looking at that, XC can only let one set out on hire, as 3 are allocated. (1V46, 1V52 & 1V54)

it is XC though so they'll probably replace a 4 coach voyager with a 2 coach turbostar and use the freed voyager to free a HST to gain extra cash by loaning it...

 

[Jonny]

There are about 6 major pieces of work south of Ally Pally, of which Thameslink is one. And it isn't the Thameslink work that is the problem.

I would have thought that the fasts would be spared (looking at the digagram on opentraintimes), but that would be only if it was the Thameslink work. If that was the case, they might have been able to "borrow back" the up fast for a little bit to release the stock. If it's other work, then it is something of a moot point.

 

[causton]

I was planning on heading north from Hatfield to Stevenage, Stevenage to Doncaster, Doncaster to St Pancras Intl on the Hull Trains, then the reverse to Doncaster, SVG, Hatfield.

Should I bother, or will these services be disrupted too much? None of the services I planned to travel on went to KGX anyway (GN starting at FPK and the EC starting at SVG)!

 

[Class 170101]

XC are in a state with a shortage of Class 170s after damage north of Cambridge last month. Three HSTs have been used in the week instead of two. However Saturday usually only needs two sets. Normally one is stabled at Plymouth and one at Leeds all day Saturday with one used from both Edinburgh and Leeds.

So I would suggest two XC sets may be possible. One from Edinburgh and one from Leeds.

 

[Saint66]

Network Rail ‏@networkrail 13s13 seconds ago
No service between Kings Cross & Finsbury Park tom due to track work in the holloway area which has taken longer then expected. Apologies.

 

[samuelmorris]

Wow, nothing tomorrow and an emergency timetable being written for Sunday, that is an impressive delay - anybody know what the holdup is? Hoping it's back to normal by Tuesday or it's going to be a long trip north for me!

 

[Qwerty133]

XC are in a state with a shortage of Class 170s after damage north of Cambridge last month. Three HSTs have been used in the week instead of two. However Saturday usually only needs two sets. Normally one is stabled at Plymouth and one at Leeds all day Saturday with one used from both Edinburgh and Leeds.

So I would suggest two XC sets may be possible. One from Edinburgh and one from Leeds.

Normally yes, but with WC works, and the lack of train services for 2 days, you'd hope that XC were (are) planning on streghening their own services, therefore requiring more of their HSTs than normal...

 

[Rich McLean]

Normally yes, but with WC works, and the lack of train services for 2 days, you'd hope that XC were (are) planning on streghening their own services, therefore requiring more of their HSTs than normal...

As pointed out, XC have 3 sets allocated tomorrow (2 sets from EC and 1 from NL), with one set spare on XC and another on maintenance.

XC won't change what is already booked, but East Coast could borrow the spare set but it has to finish at Edinburgh.

 

[najaB]

All lines are blocked. No trains can run to or from KGX. EC will be down a few sets tomorrow.

The work over-running was always going to be a possibility. Was this bad planning/lack of imagination by EC, or did they have nowhere else to stable the sets?

 

[SPADTrap]

I was planning on heading north from Hatfield to Stevenage, Stevenage to Doncaster, Doncaster to St Pancras Intl on the Hull Trains, then the reverse to Doncaster, SVG, Hatfield.

Should I bother, or will these services be disrupted too much? None of the services I planned to travel on went to KGX anyway (GN starting at FPK and the EC starting at SVG)!

If you're going for the 'bash' I'd say do something else! Services will be rammed!

 

[ModernRailways]

The work over-running was always going to be a possibility. Was this bad planning/lack of imagination by EC, or did they have nowhere else to stable the sets?

Surely they had somewhere to stable the sets? Or do they really have more sets than they do depot space now - even if it meant running services out of London at a later time/relying on southbound services arriving on time and having quick turnarounds? Even then, surely there are still locations along the ECML they could be stored under surveillance - does Hornsey have any spare roads?

 

[Crossover]

I was planning on heading north from Hatfield to Stevenage, Stevenage to Doncaster, Doncaster to St Pancras Intl on the Hull Trains, then the reverse to Doncaster, SVG, Hatfield.

Should I bother, or will these services be disrupted too much? None of the services I planned to travel on went to KGX anyway (GN starting at FPK and the EC starting at SVG)!

I'm doing the HT diversions on Sunday - could turn out to be fun!

 

[petersi]

Surely they had somewhere to stable the sets? Or do they really have more sets than they do depot space now - even if it meant running services out of London at a later time/relying on southbound services arriving on time and having quick turnarounds? Even then, surely there are still locations along the ECML they could be stored under surveillance - does Hornsey have any spare roads?

One Hornsey to a building site often they seam to stable trains at the new Thameslink Depot which they not finished building.

Access to kings cross was going to be restricted on Saturday any way. Mayhave been single line working so they wanted the trains ready to go. Rather than have to get them into Kings cross

Running a railway is complicated

 

[Max]

I've defended East Coast a bit on Twitter. They've been taking a barrage of abuse. I've been re-directing some of it to Network Rail! However, they aren't doing themselves any favours by not responding to Tweets...

 

[wensley]

Not sure that this is the correct move, XC need as many trains as possible, as they'll have all of their own passengers as well as passengers trying to get to London from both EC and WC destinations (changing at Derby, Sheffield, Birmingham or Reading),
Although I'm not sure exactly how many trains are trapped at Kings Cross, I'd imagine that reworking diagrams, taking into account earlier turn arounds and reducing turn around time could reduce the number of units EC need.

IIRC it's six sets in Kings Cross. I also believe that some of the sets on BN weren't booked to work tomorrow so there may be some scope there.

Emergency timetables seem to be taking shape and not to travel messages have been circulated. It all takes that bit longer with many Controls currently remaining closed for Christmas.

 

[Suraggu]

The work over-running was always going to be a possibility. Was this bad planning/lack of imagination by EC, or did they have nowhere else to stable the sets?

BN does not have enough space to stable the amount of sets in the London area and those sets stabled at KGX were to form the first services when the possession was given up. It was all planned fairly well.

But with Finsbury Park limited by track layout and platforms this is why EC trains will terminate at Doncaster, Peterborough or Stevenage. These would 'connect' with the limited amount of trains terminating at Finsbury Park.

Yes it will be crammed, it will anger many but its better than throwing in the towel.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

IIRC it's six sets in Kings Cross. I also believe that some of the sets on BN weren't booked to work tomorrow so there may be some scope there.

Emergency timetables seem to be taking shape and not to travel messages have been circulated. It all takes that bit longer with many Controls currently remaining closed for Christmas.

Send them to my email please. I've had nothing and I'm on shift tomorrow.

 

[ModernRailways]

I've defended East Coast a bit on Twitter. They've been taking a barrage of abuse. I've been re-directing some of it to Network Rail! However, they aren't doing themselves any favours by not responding to Tweets...

I think the main problem is that they don't have any information on their website. The media are doing a poor job (as normal) informing people, but then they have little information too.

Is there going to be ticket acceptance in place? People could plan their journeys now if there was ticket acceptance in place, but there is nothing other than 'a revised/emergency timetable will be in operation'.

How many trains are expected to go through to Finsbury Park and things like that. Obviously it takes time to organise, but this has seemingly been known for quite a few hours now, and from what I've read by forum members and staff members on site the problems have only been piling up and it was fairly expected to overrun. Surely, EC (and TSGN) should have already had plans in place. In fact, TSGN is probably the biggest issue here, not EC, how will this affect Great Northern services or will there just be minimal disruption to there services (with most disruption likely due to pax loadings)?

 

[Qwerty133]

I've defended East Coast a bit on Twitter. They've been taking a barrage of abuse. I've been re-directing some of it to Network Rail! However, they aren't doing themselves any favours by not responding to Tweets...

At least they've tweeted something about the problems, unlike Grand Central. It's not exactly difficult to send a tweet, with a link, which should be able to be done from anywhere with Internet access, by anyone with the password, so unless only 1 person knows the password and they're on holiday to Antarctica (which would be a absolutely stupid system- what if they get hit by a bus) there's absolutely no excuse for not tweeting about it within 2 minutes of it becoming know, let alone 2 hours.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Im feeling somewhat jinxed this weekend.

Ive had travel booked since 5th Oct, Glasgow to London via Edinburgh.

Obvious choice was WCML only to find out Watford to Euston was a no go. I thought ok, and extra hour or so on EC isnt so bad... but now this, lol...

If I hadn't of booked a non refundable hotel for 3 nights I'd be giving up!

Let the games begin!

 

[ModernRailways]

At least they've tweeted something about the problems, unlike Grand Central. It's not exactly difficult to send a tweet, with a link, which should be able to be done from anywhere with Internet access, by anyone with the password, so unless only 1 person knows the password and they're on holiday to Antarctica (which would be a absolutely stupid system- what if they get hit by a bus) there's absolutely no excuse for not tweeting about it within 2 minutes of it becoming know, let alone 2 hours.

Grand Central's Twitter is operated by the Cross Country team, and from a previous tweet they posted they aren't allowed to use Twitter outside of the office. Grand Central seems to have just been thrown on the side of the XC Twitter as something to kind of just say 'Hey look GC has a Twitter that is actually manned now'

 

[asylumxl]

Emergency timetables seem to be taking shape and not to travel messages have been circulated.

This is in no way a dig at you or personal, but it's something that grinds my gears.
It's all well and good companies advising people not to travel but surely, if passengers have specifically booked/reserved a certain date and time, it is because they NEED to travel then.

I understand the reasons why, but in my experience it doesn't discourage anyone. I think a better option would be to salvage as much of the timetable as possible and only allow people with reservations.

 

[Suraggu]

I think the main problem is that they don't have any information on their website. The media are doing a poor job (as normal) informing people, but then they have little information too.

Is there going to be ticket acceptance in place? People could plan their journeys now if there was ticket acceptance in place, but there is nothing other than 'a revised/emergency timetable will be in operation'.

How many trains are expected to go through to Finsbury Park and things like that. Obviously it takes time to organise, but this has seemingly been known for quite a few hours now, and from what I've read by forum members and staff members on site the problems have only been piling up and it was fairly expected to overrun. Surely, EC (and TSGN) should have already had plans in place. In fact, TSGN is probably the biggest issue here, not EC, how will this affect Great Northern services or will there just be minimal disruption to there services (with most disruption likely due to pax loadings)?

It doesn't help that its Boxing Day and only on call staff are in and no social media staff, as it is still boxing day. To formulate an emergency timetable takes time. Once its checked and signed off it can be handed out. The public don't realize its not just the trains, but staff and crew to man the service for a whole day. All of that gets looked at for an emergency timetable.

Be carm I say as I know as much as the travelling public. It will be announced when it can, but passengers will travel regardless of how serious this disruption is.

 

[21C101]

Perhaps the nice people at EMT could extend some of their Sheffield services to Doncaster and Pax for London advised to change at Doncaster?

Possibly a bit late notice to get enough extra crews though - especially with the snow.

 

[Max]

I think the main problem is that they don't have any information on their website. The media are doing a poor job (as normal) informing people, but then they have little information too.

Is there going to be ticket acceptance in place? People could plan their journeys now if there was ticket acceptance in place, but there is nothing other than 'a revised/emergency timetable will be in operation'.

How many trains are expected to go through to Finsbury Park and things like that. Obviously it takes time to organise, but this has seemingly been known for quite a few hours now, and from what I've read by forum members and staff members on site the problems have only been piling up and it was fairly expected to overrun. Surely, EC (and TSGN) should have already had plans in place. In fact, TSGN is probably the biggest issue here, not EC, how will this affect Great Northern services or will there just be minimal disruption to there services (with most disruption likely due to pax loadings)?

Yeah, I completely agree, the level of information is very poor. I would assume ticket acceptance south of Yorkshire will be nigh on impossible for them to arrange given the WCML is closed and the MML/Chiltern is likely to be full to bursting already with passengers who would have travelled on Virgin. I would also assume that re-planning a whole day's timetable is a massive undertaking, and with only a bare skeleton staff in place on Boxing Day this problem is compounded further. It does also beg the question, as you've hinted, as to why there isn't some kind of emergency contingency already under wraps so that they can revert to Plan B if there is some kind of major problem? Would this be the responsibility of NR or the TOCs?

 

[PHILIPE]

I've defended East Coast a bit on Twitter. They've been taking a barrage of abuse. I've been re-directing some of it to Network Rail! However, they aren't doing themselves any favours by not responding to Tweets...

The TOCs have to take the flak every time while Network Rail and DaFT who are responsible for many of the wrongs on the system can hide in the background.

 

[asylumxl]

Perhaps the nice people at EMT could extend some of their Sheffield services to Doncaster and Pax for London advised to change at Doncaster?

If they all stopped at Bedford or Luton, that'd be swell :P.

 

[BrianTheLion]

I think a better option would be to salvage as much of the timetable as possible and only allow people with reservations.

Never thought about it like this, but you make a good point. Surely a reservation only system would be the most effective way to control the amount of passengers needing "alternative" transport.

At least then the TOC's have a reasonably accurate number to play with