ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December

[Max]

Info also appearing on www.realtimetrains.co.uk as services are updated in TRUST.

 

[asylumxl]

Southbound service by that feed looks to be an ex-Leeds and an ex-Scotland each hour to FPK. Presume they'll be rammed...

I hope they honor reservations. If they don't I may go on a killing spree.

 

[Skimble19]

I guess the issue they're having to sort is that they probably can't turn everything at Finsbury Park as iirc they use the Canonbury Curve to do the reversals.

Most GN was scheduled to turn at Finsbury anyway, it's the relatively small-ish bit that was going through to KGX that they've got to turn elsewhere - probably Stevenage or Peterborough.

They've also got to try and sort out how to get round the sets trapped at Kings Cross and hopefully they'll see if they can strengthen the GN trains from Peterborough to 12 cars to help deal with displaced East Coast passengers.

Sorry, but there's no chance of any 12 car Great Northern services tomorrow as there isn't anywhere near enough staff to dispatch them. (Unless they ran non stop, but since there would be no benefit whatsoever to GN for doing that I can't see it happening!)

 

[Hartington]

This

East Coast passengers may not use East Midlands Trains between Sheffield and London St Pancras.

has appeared here: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/88857.aspx

Can they do that if the passenger has an "any permitted route" ticket?

 

[dtaylor84]

If it's an "Any Permitted" ticket, are they really East Coast passengers?

 

[Chrism20]

This

East Coast passengers may not use East Midlands Trains between Sheffield and London St Pancras.

has appeared here: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/88857.aspx

Can they do that if the passenger has an "any permitted route" ticket?

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the TOC get a cut of the ticket price if they end up carrying passengers from services which have been cancelled. If that is the case It's quite surprising considering EMT is ran by Stagecoach who will be inheriting EC in the next few months. Is have thought there would have been a bit more co-operation as you be guaranteed if the same happens in a couple of months time the idea will be to shove as many via EMT as possible to reduce costs.

Either way I'd have expected there to be more cooperation considering EC are going to be joining the group shortly.

 

[CyrixDes]

I think the issue with EMT stating this is that they are already carrying the vast majority of the North West - London traffic due to the Watford block and as we saw on the previous blocks, EMTs services despite being strengthened are all packed to the rafters anyway. They cant stop any permitted route people travelling but they are stopping East Coast only tickets from being used

 

[Chrism20]

I think the issue with EMT stating this is that they are already carrying the vast majority of the North West - London traffic due to the Watford block and as we saw on the previous blocks, EMTs services despite being strengthened are all packed to the rafters anyway. They cant stop any permitted route people travelling but they are stopping East Coast only tickets from being used

Thanks, I thought that may be the case although I'm still surprised. It's all a bit of a mess by the looks of things.

what surprises me the most is that there was not a plan B looked at and ready to roll incase this happens given that engineering works overruns happen fairly regularly. Even if it resulted in a little extra work for nothing (if not needed) surely given the Christmas shutdown it would have been beneficial to have something ready to go.

 

[jamieP]

Due to overrunning engineering works, GN services in and out of Kings Cross will be disrupted all day Saturday 27th December 14.
Services from Peterborough will terminate and restart at Welwyn GC.
Services from Kings Lynn booked for Kings Cross will terminate alternately at Welwyn GC and Letchworth.
A limited bus service will run between Letchworth and Luton airport Parkway.
Services to Finsbury Park and inners to Moorgate will remain.

JP

 

[LowLevel]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the TOC get a cut of the ticket price if they end up carrying passengers from services which have been cancelled. If that is the case It's quite surprising considering EMT is ran by Stagecoach who will be inheriting EC in the next few months. Is have thought there would have been a bit more co-operation as you be guaranteed if the same happens in a couple of months time the idea will be to shove as many via EMT as possible to reduce costs.

Either way I'd have expected there to be more cooperation considering EC are going to be joining the group shortly.

I would assume it's mostly EC advances they don't want to take on.

They're concerned enough already about West Coast passengers on top of theirs - the MML on these kind of dates is not a pretty sight. That's without the lack of capacity between Sheffield and Manchester to cope, particularly with the extra luggage.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Confirmed by staff email that any permitted tickets usually valid are to be allowed to travel on EMT subject to capacity, AP and TOC specific are not being accepted.

East Coast apparently running 2 an hour from Finsbury Park at xx30 and xx00 to one of Leeds, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

 

[TUC]

I think the issue with EMT stating this is that they are already carrying the vast majority of the North West - London traffic due to the Watford block and as we saw on the previous blocks, EMTs services despite being strengthened are all packed to the rafters anyway. They cant stop any permitted route people travelling but they are stopping East Coast only tickets from being used

But the problem is that the National Rail site says that 'East Coast passengers' cannot use EMT. Some passengers will know that this means holders of East Coast only tickets rather than those with any permitted, but many won't, to say nothing of the potential for some on-train member of staff to wrongly cause problems. Cone on NRE, in this kind of situation why can 't you get the basic facts right?

 

[Suraggu]

I would assume it's mostly EC advances they don't want to take on.

They're concerned enough already about West Coast passengers on top of theirs - the MML on these kind of dates is not a pretty sight. That's without the lack of capacity between Sheffield and Manchester to cope, particularly with the extra luggage.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Confirmed by staff email that any permitted tickets and tickets usually valid are to be allowed to travel on EMT subject to capacity, AP and TOC specific are not being accepted.

East Coast apparently running 2 an hour from Finsbury Park at xx30 and xx00 to one of Leeds, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

With an hourly Peterborough -Leeds service.

 

[LowLevel]

Should have mentioned we've not had the gen for other services starting further north.

 

[TUC]

I think the issue with EMT stating this is that they are already carrying the vast majority of the North West - London traffic due to the Watford block and as we saw on the previous blocks, EMTs services despite being strengthened are all packed to the rafters anyway. They cant stop any permitted route people travelling but they are stopping East Coast only tickets from being used

Thanks, I thought that may be the case although I'm still surprised. It's all a bit of a mess by the looks of things.

what surprises me the most is that there was not a plan B looked at and ready to roll incase this happens given that engineering works overruns happen fairly regularly. Even if it resulted in a little extra work for nothing (if not needed) surely given the Christmas shutdown it would have been beneficial to have something ready to go.

Exactly. We have NRE saying sorry if they can't reply to passengers' tweets and directing them to the information pages for details of changes. We know it's Christmas but it looks like there was no contingency plan, not just for alternative services, but to bring staff in to deal with queries in the dvent of disruption.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Should have mentioned we've not had the gen for other services starting further north.

That serums to be a real omission. Try searching for Peterborough-Aberdeen today and nothing comes up.

 

[wensley]

The two GC services booked to run to KGX will terminate at Peterborough and shunt, forming their backworkings. these trains will have additional calls at Doncaster to split units, with one continuing to Bradford and one to Sunderland.

The booked return trip to Finsbury Park will run as advertised.

 

[LowLevel]

All seat reservations on East Coast are cancelled today also.

 

[BrianTheLion]

anyone know what to do if your train terminates at peterborough??? im booked on the 11am from edb

 

[Suraggu]

anyone know what to do if your train terminates at peterborough??? im booked on the 11am from edb

Either travel on the Next Finsbury Park service and change for the tube or GTR to Moorgate OR take a train to Cambridge and travel on Greater Anglia to London Liverpool Street.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Either travel on the Next Finsbury Park service and change for the tube or GTR to Moorgate OR take a train to Cambridge and travel on Greater Anglia to London Liverpool Street.

Thanks a lot for your help. Youre so much more useful than the info National Rail just gave me. The websites are crap with information today.

 

[Suraggu]

Thanks a lot for your help. Youre so much more useful than the info National Rail just gave me. The websites are crap with information today.

Just a railwayman doing his duty.

 

[ChathillMan]

I cannot help but think East Coast are storing problems up for tomorrow and Monday by asking people no to travel.

I know its major cock up by Network Rail and East Coast's contingency planning seems to have disappeared, but....

Two trains an hour are still leaving Scotland southbound. One of those is still stopping at a major tube station (albeit Finsbury Park) and the other is stopping at most intermediate points as far a Peterborough.

Surely a more positive message saying who can travel is better than one that says "defer travel" because the trains are going to be absolutely rammed tomorrow with people that could probably go today (albeit with either a slightly longer tube journey or one change of train)

 

[bramling]

Due to overrunning engineering works, GN services in and out of Kings Cross will be disrupted all day Saturday 27th December 14.
Services from Peterborough will terminate and restart at Welwyn GC.
Services from Kings Lynn booked for Kings Cross will terminate alternately at Welwyn GC and Letchworth.
A limited bus service will run between Letchworth and Luton airport Parkway.
Services to Finsbury Park and inners to Moorgate will remain.

JP

Not off to a good start already.

2R99 0409 Hitchin to Finsbury Park terminated at Stevenage 49 mins late, then appears to have run empty to Welwyn Garden City to form the first train northbound starting at Welwyn. (All very well, but at this time of morning most people want to get from or to London, including many railway staff on their way to work).

2P21 0410 Peterborough to Finsbury Park was doing ok until Hitchin, then lost time caught behind late-running 2R99. Then held at Welwyn Garden City for 45 mins, allegedly due to "over running engineering work between Welwyn and Potters Bar". A further 2 mins lost at Potters Bar standing at a controlled signal, which miraculously cleared straight from red to green when the driver called up. Then a decent run to Alexandra Palace, where crossed over into Alexandra Palace Platform 1. Visible ahead it could be seen the second signal ahead was initially set for a return from US2 to US1 via the crossover at Hornsey, but this then was replaced to red. After a further 2 mins sitting in Alexandra Palace platform, train was routed from US2 to US1 via the Alexandra Palace south crossover. Then sat for a further few minutes at the next signal before returning back to US2, followed by a PA "if there are any off-duty staff on board who sign Canonbury please go to the driving cab". Finally arrive at Finsbury Park a cool 58 mins late (or 107 mins late if intending to use 2R99!). At this point there was a train on Platform 2 advertised for Moorgate, but just as everyone gets on that this is announced as terminating - as far as I can tell looks like it was going to Drayton Park to reverse (think this was actually as booked).

No idea exactly what the issue was, but the overall impression is the situation was not well handled, at times a distinct impression of not knowing what was going on - particularly the obvious confusion over routing at Alexandra Palace. Certainly the information being given out was very poor. Hard to tell if GTR can be blamed as most of the issues seemed to be the doing of Network Rail, however GTR can certainly be held accountable for the lack of information.

All very well Network Rail crowing about its performance, but getting the basics right should be a priority, and if this is the performance first thing on a weekend morning when there are hardly any trains on the railway, it doesn't bode well for Thameslink when operating practice will have to be top notch.

On the plus side, Hornsey US1 to US2 is a very rare crossover to use indeed for passenger trains, so every cloud has a silver lining, as taken 30 years to cross that one off in the book!

 

[asylumxl]

All seat reservations on East Coast are cancelled today also.

This is a disaster if true. The EC website had been advising passengers to have reservations this weekend and most services were fully booked shortly after the fares became available. There's going to be a lot of unhappy passengers, including me, who took the time to actually plan ahead.

 

[LowLevel]

Got it in capital letters on the stuff they page out to rail staff via TyrellCheck.

 

[amcluesent]

Will WCML take pax with EC tickets? Sounds like ECML service has collapsed

 

[asylumxl]

Got it in capital letters on the stuff they page out to rail staff via TyrellCheck.

Well that's lovely of them. The website says nothing and their Twitter staff seem unsure, or perhaps they're being coy. Thanks anyway.

 

[rmt4ever]

Also major delays to /from PADD due to overrunning engineering works. Merry Christmas, love network rail and co lol

 

[TUC]

But the problem is that the National Rail site says that 'East Coast passengers' cannot use EMT. Some passengers will know that this means holders of East Coast only tickets rather than those with any permitted, but many won't, to say nothing of the potential for some on-train member of staff to wrongly cause problems. Cone on NRE, in this kind of situation why can 't you get the basic facts right?

To add to the confusion, on the one hand the NRE website is saying that 'East Coast passengers are not able to use East Midlands Trains services between London St Pancras and Sheffield' but on the other hand, if, for example, one searches for a London KX-Aberdeen service leaving now, the website advises passengers that the service is cancelled but that an alternative is to travel on the 0858 EMT between St. Pancras and Derby and then change there onto a Cross Country to Edinburgh. Quite apart from the fact that holders of any permitted tickets can use these services anyway, does the fact that the NRE website points to this as an alternative means that passengers with Advance tickets for the East Coast service could reasonably expect their tickets to be accepted on the EMT service?

Come on NRE, this is just basic clarity of information and language that is needed. It's really not difficult.

 

[Suraggu]

Will WCML take pax with EC tickets? Sounds like ECML service has collapsed

No! The EC service has not fallen apart, the amended service is running extremely well at present.

 

[TUC]

No! The EC service has not fallen apart, the amended service is running extremely well at present.

It's just that no one has a clue what is running when or what tickets they can use, thanks to the useless information.